Mains cable.. seen the light????

No quarter posted:

Who cares HOW it does,as long as it DOES

Lots of people care actually, including The Advertising Standards Authority (ASA), the UK's regulator of advertising who upheld a complaint against a company selling £1200 quid kettle leads which made absolutely no discernible difference to sound quality.

Class A pre amps often have an impedance characteristic that doesn't draw voltage from those cables that are connecting a source. Giving the use of fancy cables not as much an influence. Same with most things. Cables might not necessarily make as much influence with some gear, but could make a huge impact on others

Mrs Wogan's lemon drizzle cake posted:

TOBYJUG posted:

There is plenty of documented information regarding mains cables. 

And yet still no one in this thread is willing to actually tell me how a mains cable improves sound quality. 

Hi Mrs WLDC could you explain why a mains cable cannot improve sound quality? 

Mrs Wogan's lemon drizzle cake posted:

No quarter posted:

Who cares HOW it does,as long as it DOES

Lots of people care actually, including The Advertising Standards Authority (ASA), the UK's regulator of advertising who upheld a complaint against a company selling £1200 quid kettle leads which made absolutely no discernible difference to sound quality.

Null hypothesis (H0) mains cable does not have any impact on sound quality.

Alternative hypothesis (H1) mains cable has a significant impact on sound quality.

Some Forum members have observed significant, perceived difference during their tests and accepted H1. I have also found significant difference between mains leads. But as I am not an egineer nor do I profess to be one, I accepted the finidings and chose the power cables that I liked.

@Mrs WLMC - please present your findings and rationalise the background of your choice.

So far you have not offered any insights of your own during this thread, that have a valuable input to this Forum. This is a Naim / Hi_Fi forum where members tend to help each other and share their experiences. So for a change - please share some of your own. I would be very interested to know what equipment you onw and tested, what cables you have or have tried. This would be what I personally deem to be a valauble input.

Also please quantify what 'Lots of people' means. It would be helpful if you could provide a number, ideally as a % of the sample size.

Adam

Mrs Wogan's lemon drizzle cake posted:

KTMax posted:

Mrs Wogan's lemon drizzle cake posted:

No one seems to be able to explain how these power cables increase sound quality? 

The link to the other topic I posted above does. 

I'm sorry but I don't see any explanation in that thread? Perhaps you'd care to share the specific post you are referring to? 

I can see your up for a good argument Mrs Wogan.... so I won't disagree with you but I will say this, I cannot see that so many people have been duped into imagining they are hearing something they are not that would be quite a phenomenon.  However I have to say my own experience of a PowerLine was not a 'wow' moment but I do find I prefer it in my system than without and isn't that the point.

Well, with the Naim power line there are a number of things beside the cable that might explain why it may sound better than a standard power lead; there's the decoupling, which supposedly reduces microphonic effects - I'm not going to say I understand that, but having heard my NAC552 with suspension system locked and then free I'm more than happy to trust Naim's R&D engineers that it makes some kind of positive difference. There's also the super tight gripping jaws in the IEC plug - I have heard in first hand comparisons the difference this can make for the better. And then there's allowing the pins on a UK mains plug to make the best possible contact with the contact blades in a UK socket - again, something I have heard first hand  compared to standard fare when we were first experimenting with this.

Hi,

Does anyone here know when the new Power-Lite leads go on sale?

I'm itching to try them on my humble SI series combo even though the stock leads are doing a sterling job.

Stephen, I just received a Uniti Core from the factory and it had a Powerline lite mains lead in the box so I imagine they're already out there, unless they're only initially going out with the electronics.  Give your dealer a call, I would.

Many thanks Richard!

I shall give my dealer a call!

Tom Tom have them in their online shop for £95. It looks like a standard Naim IEC mains cable with a fancy plug ?

You've just given me an idea 

Mike-B posted:

I don't think anyone has an irrefutable proven reason why Mrs WLDC,  there is a lot of 'theory' & more,  but nothing like you (& many others) are looking for.     I'm an electrical engineer & I don't have a conviction one way or other.  IMO it's all subjective & a heavy dose of marketplace rumour & myth.  I am prepared to live with that if it sounds better,  it sounds better.  If not then a good reason to not bother.   

Completely agree with you Mike regarding subjectivity, marketplace rumour & myth.

james n posted:

Tom Tom have them in their online shop for £95. It looks like a standard Naim IEC mains cable with a fancy plug ?

You've just given me an idea 

It is.  As I wrote above, there's likely much more to why the Powerline may sound preferable to stock mains cord than just a fancy bit of wire - good physical reasons like the plugs it uses.  The Powerline Lite appears to have a cost-cut version of the mains plug used on the Powerline and I guess that's what Naim feel makes a significant enough difference to mean offering it as an actual product.  

I know that Naim always preferred the performance from the Crabtree mains plugs.  When we tried to figure out why (after all, the MK plugs which were narrowly eclipsed in subjective tests did appear to be slightly better made and more substantial) it was discovered that on the Crabtree the pins are not connected to the body in the same way as others and this seemed to allow the pin to align ever so slightly better with the socket blades.  I remember Jason set about with a file on a Crabtree plug (DO NOT try this at home people - there are very strict limits on how much movement is allowed and it's easy to make a plug dangerous by going to far) to allow a bit more free movement on the pins and the improvement in sound was significant.  It was from these early experiments that the Powerline mains plug developed.

Mrs Wogan's lemon drizzle cake posted:

Completely agree with you Mike regarding subjectivity, marketplace rumour & myth.

You still haven't answered my question, why can't a mains cable make any difference? 

Thanks Richard - I've wanted one of those mains plugs (always used Crabtree) so have ordered a PL-L 

Next we'll hear that all lemon drizzle cakes are the same! 

They are. Unless you can explain why they aren't. And even then, that's subjectivity and myth.

Nobody has explained yet, why some lemon drizzle cakes are different to others? ....

If they taste different to you then that's all that matters.

Richard Dane posted:

Well, with the Naim power line there are a number of things beside the cable that might explain why it may sound better than a standard power lead; there's the decoupling, which supposedly reduces microphonic effects - I'm not going to say I understand that, but having heard my NAC552 with suspension system locked and then free I'm more than happy to trust Naim's R&D engineers that it makes some kind of positive difference. There's also the super tight gripping jaws in the IEC plug - I have heard in first hand comparisons the difference this can make for the better. And then there's allowing the pins on a UK mains plug to make the best possible contact with the contact blades in a UK socket - again, something I have heard first hand  compared to standard fare when we were first experimenting with this.

Richard Dane posted:

It is.  As I wrote above, there's likely much more to why the Powerline may sound preferable to stock mains cord than just a fancy bit of wire - good physical reasons like the plugs it uses.  The Powerline Lite appears to have a cost-cut version of the mains plug used on the Powerline and I guess that's what Naim feel makes a significant enough difference to mean offering it as an actual product.  

I know that Naim always preferred the performance from the Crabtree mains plugs.  When we tried to figure out why (after all, the MK plugs which were narrowly eclipsed in subjective tests did appear to be slightly better made and more substantial) it was discovered that on the Crabtree the pins are not connected to the body in the same way as others and this seemed to allow the pin to align ever so slightly better with the socket blades.  I remember Jason set about with a file on a Crabtree plug (DO NOT try this at home people - there are very strict limits on how much movement is allowed and it's easy to make a plug dangerous by going to far) to allow a bit more free movement on the pins and the improvement in sound was significant.  It was from these early experiments that the Powerline mains plug developed.

Richard, thank you, at last a logical explanation!

I've removed my loan PLs. Can't notice any difference so glad I had already decided not to buy them.

Finkfan posted:

Next we'll hear that all lemon drizzle cakes are the same! 

Sir,

Are you implying they are not. Would you like to confirm one way or the other if all lemon drizzle cakes indeed taste the same or do they in fact vary? Maybe you would also like to provide some evidence of the consistency or otherwise of lemon drizzle cakes.

Mr Finkfan, you simply can't come on here and make wild accusations about the variability of lemon drizzle cakes without a shred of evidence. How many lemon drizzle cakes have you actually consumed recently and from where did you purchase them? How many of those cakes did you compare directly with each other and were these comparisons done under controlled conditions? How do you judge the superiority or otherwise of a typical lemon drizzle cake that any one of us might consider purchasing from our local supermarket or baker?

A very sloppy and unsubstantiated post I must say Mr Finkfan. Must try harder to provide evidence in future.

Yours, disappointed, of Chesham.

Filipe posted:

I've removed my loan PLs. Can't notice any difference so glad I had already decided not to buy them.

You have just save yourself a fair bit of money!!

nigelb posted:

Finkfan posted:

Next we'll hear that all lemon drizzle cakes are the same! 

Sir,

Are you implying they are not. Would you like to confirm one way or the other if all lemon drizzle cakes indeed taste the same or do they in fact vary? Maybe you would also like to provide some evidence of the consistency or otherwise of lemon drizzle cakes.

Mr Finkfan, you simply can't come on here and make wild accusations about the variability of lemon drizzle cakes without a shred of evidence. How many lemon drizzle cakes have you actually consumed recently and from where did you purchase them? How many of those cakes did you compare directly with each other and were these comparisons done under controlled conditions? How do you judge the superiority or otherwise of a typical lemon drizzle cake that any one of us might consider purchasing from our local supermarket or baker?

A very sloppy and unsubstantiated post I must say Mr Finkfan. Must try harder to provide evidence in future.

Yours, disappointed, of Chesham.

I don't even like lemon drizzle cake 

I've just tasted a TQ drizzle cake,  it's the best I've ever tasted, I don't know why because their is no list of ingredients... 

Mr [@mention:48872963983698699] I won't be doing any research and there by backing up any claims. If it's saying it's a lemon drizzle cake then that's what it is ,whoever makes it and however they bake it. Nothing more, nothing less. I refuse to believe that a slight change in ingredients (quantity or quality) or the way in which those ingredients are mixed together will have any impact on the end result. I'm telling you, All cakes are the same!!! Don't waste your money on one that comes in a fancy tin, or black box