Mains cable.. seen the light????

I once had this discussion over lunch with Roy at the factory - I asked him if perhaps the answer to mains ills in hifi was to just regenerate the mains - simple.  It was along time ago now but, IIRC, he felt that mains regeneration was a good idea but with one over-riding problem - to be really worthwhile the regeneration device would need to be the size of a small power station.  Oh, and if you had the space, making one the size of a large power station would be better still.  I can't recall the exact details but the size problem revolved around impedance or some such thing, which was why smaller regeneration devices generally created more problems than they aimed to solve.

Richard 2000 posted:

So you have not actually used a re generator in an audio context, so I cant see how you can objectively qualify that a re-generator would without doubt improve matters considerably. Of course, subjectively you believe it would and I wouldn't be so arrogant to challenge your belief, but it is just a belief and not proven in practice.

I'll chp in as independent from the previous exchanges.

A re-generator, in my understanding, is effectively a generator powered by electricity,  so can provide a degree of isolation far higher than any filters etc. However, the quality of the sine wave output does, of course, depend on the design:  At its worst, a design similar to a common-or-garden inverter such as used in mobile situations to provide mains voltage from batteries or from solar panels etc often very crude, with very impure output, is likely to be awful, but at the other extreme it could be as good as you can get with AC.

I think a small power-station is a bit of an exaggeration , but probably at least 100kg to 200kg to get to 500 class; and yes it's because of impedance limits all the way through the generator system (same reason why good transformers are heavy!).

Edit:   P.S. I at no point have I claimed they're practical, just that when properly implemented they're the ultimate solution!

Huge posted:

From experience of re-generators, electronic design of audio amplifiers, and other electronic design work.

If your comment was intended for me (apologies if it wasn't), I think with respect your being a tad pompous and patronising, nothing is proven until its proven no matter how great a designer of electronics one might be

Huge, yes, I think a little bit of exaggeration - the size of a modest house was perhaps more accurate. But, the bigger the better..

Richard 2000 posted:

Huge posted:

From experience of re-generators, electronic design of audio amplifiers, and other electronic design work.

If your comment was intended for me (apologies if it wasn't), I think with respect your being a tad pompous and patronising, nothing is proven until its proven no matter how great a designer of electronics one might be

I simply answered your question...

"so I cant see how you can objectively qualify that a re-generator would without doubt improve matters considerably."

Richard Dane posted:

I once had this discussion over lunch with Roy at the factory...

Somehow manages to make it sound like Le Gavroche, Richard!

C.

Huge posted:

Richard 2000 posted:

Huge posted:

From experience of re-generators, electronic design of audio amplifiers, and other electronic design work.

If your comment was intended for me (apologies if it wasn't), I think with respect your being a tad pompous and patronising, nothing is proven until its proven no matter how great a designer of electronics one might be

I simply answered your question...

"so I cant see how you can objectively qualify that a re-generator would without doubt improve matters considerably."

With respect, you gave a reply and misrepresented my quote but not an answer in the correct context of my original question;
You claim a re generator would "without doubt improve matters considerably" but in answer to an earlier question you admitted that you have not used a re generator in an audio context.
Therefore my original question stands.
So you have not actually used a re generator in an audio context, so I cant see how you can objectively qualify that a re-generator would without doubt improve matters considerably.

just because you believe yourself to be an electronics design guru  doesn't qualify your opinions as proven. As I'm sure you will be aware as are many audiophiles, HiFI components sometimes measure poorly on a test bench but sound wonderful and vice versa. You may well believe for solid scientific theoretical reasons and measurement that a re generator would without doubt improve matters but until it has been tested in an audio environment with a consensus from a significant number of listeners then your belief remains unproven.

My amplifiers transformers AC is converted to DC with rectifier diodes with the DC rail fed into the network of capacitors. As are many other designs out there. Would getting a perfect AC wave affect this ?

And of course some designs may have better quality and functioning discrete high surge capacity diodes than others so may be less susceptible to quality of AC. But still garbage in = garbage out. Right ?

It's a little more complicated than that (things like Power Supply Rejection Ratio and amp power supply regulation are also relevant), but in general principle the GIGO aphorism does hold to a fair degree.

However the amount of garbage in the output from a properly designed amplifier is a smaller proportion of the output signal than the proportion of garbage in the mains input.

Has anyone tried removing the 13a plug (in uk) and using an unswitched fused connector, so the power lead is actually screwed to the mains lead?  

This would seem to remove one of the reasons the Powerline is claimed to work wonders, better contact between the plug's connectors and the connectors in the socket.

Michael, not a particularly practical proposal, very likely not code compliant (detachable ends), and also the other advantage of the Powerline mains plug - i.e. physical decoupling - is absent. 

Attn Richard Dane,
Apologies for breaching forum rules on the related thread Dedicated Supply Question. I have deleted said post and reposted.
I similarly submitted a post on this thread with link to same, I see it hasn't  appeared so hopefully you have deleted it which I was going to request that you do in any case as it contained a misleading error.
Thanks

Richard

Richard, thank you.