UnitiCore - Does what it says on the box ..... or not !

Can I add some of my experience ripping about 2000 CDs with dBPoweramp. 

Firstly I found that CDs are read centre to outside so the last track issues that the OP is having also happened to me and many were responsive to some cleaning  of the CD as this is where fingerprints were most likely to be an issue. I used ROR (residual oil remover) and selvyt cloth. 

The PC I use has 2 drives a CD and DVD-R. Sometimes when a last track was taking too long switching to the other drive sorted the issue. I worked out the CD drive was better able to rip than the DVD one. 

Then there were some that dBPoweramp wanted to re-rip nearly every frame which is what I presume is happening when you get 50 minute rips. I found that if I went to the other PC we have that these invariably ripped fine. So there seems to be different capabilities between different CD-ROM drives in their ability to rip. If you can bring one of the 50 minute rips into your dealer and see if a different drive (Core machine) can do better. 

My experience is that after cleaning it is the CD-ROM drives that are the main factor and I had very few CDs that didn't rip on one of my 3 drives. 

.sjb 

Naim have created a dismal and depressing situation. I agree with the OP. I too bought the Core on the basis of their website marketing that the Core is a “fuss free, no-compromise solution” yet I despair.

This is almost a £2K device once you add a drive. Reading the above comment from Naim that the April update is still going to be incapable of correcting/editing simple data elements stored on the internal drive makes me wonder what to make of this company. I expected basic functionality such as this would be present from the day I purchased it. Buyer beware comes to mind.

So from April (or whenever) the Core will still allow me to identify the correct album via the App and still not be able to apply it’s art-work or correct tracks because the music is on the internal drive but stored in a folder with a specific name (Downloads) rather than something it ripped which is stored in another folder. If this is the case, this isn’t a technical constraint. That is a feature,  by design. Someone hasn't bothered to design it to do what the buyers of the product fully and reasonably expect.

I guess I’m just stuck with many ugly grey boxes in the App. Or do I now have to go and find pictures and work out how to do that manually? 50% of my music is CDs I re-ripped through the Core and 50% (and growing) is downloads. Most of the rips were identified ok. The purpose of the Core as I see it is rapidly diminishing. It ain’t fuss-free and it certainly isn’t a no-compromise solution.  To release such an unfinished product is shameful.

Do Naim’s dealers now know to explain that "no, it doesn’t allow editing of all your existing music stored inside it,  so its not really a single store / management as you need to buy or own another system or computer and software to do that and to then move the music files around, edit them, move them back, not screw it all up..." ?

I wrote down all the issues with the app and device’s operation but quite frankly doing Naim’s job for them given how much of my budget this cost makes me feel rather unwell so I don't think I'll send that on, at least not until I know its worth the effort and what Naim's plans are post April release.  Anyone know how long a Naim dealer will provide a full refund after purchase?

My DAC-V1 and NAP100 lead me to think the Core was a sensible route to go but no. I know it’s not the 10’s of thousands of £££s that a lot of Naim customer spend on their passion but even so! I feel sorry for those that like me, buy a Core without knowing the reality of this product’s (inc the App's) abject failings. I seem to be hanging on the idea that Naim will release an upgrade to the device and to that utterly atrocious App but that seems to be misguided on my part too.

So it seems I’ve been mislead by the marketing of what I felt was a reputable company into putting a couple of mortgage payments in to their coffers for a rather rotten device that looked likely to fit a nice gap in the market, and in my small music system, if only it were fit for purpose. It’s so close but Naim seem to purposely be hobbling it.

TBH, I don’t care much about the technology. I just enjoyed music. With this product I don’t hear the music much any more. I just see the red mist rising.

I do hope Naim step up for this product but it seems unlikely. 

i think naim will perform this metadata problem of the core but not solve it completely. 

My unitserve, which had around  7 years of development, presents also the same problems but less important. I have around 300 albums ripped and 150 downloads: 5 % of the albums present on my serve had a wrong cover, or no cover, or not the good tittle or dispatched in several tracks.  So i had to use my pc to correct the wrong metadata : i feel it annoying and hoped the core would solve this. But no, it is even worse ( i had a core for 3/4 days).

But i don't see a product that can be better with my nds, a one box solution that rips and store  and have naim musicality. I was a little disappointed by the melco n1a and don't think the innuos zenith or antipodes will give better solution. ( from what i read).

Keler Pierre posted:

 I was a little disappointed by the melco n1a and don't think the innuos zenith or antipodes will give better solution. ( from what i read).

I think you have been misinformed, I have an Innuos Zenith, and it doesn't have any of the problems described above.

For a start, it is perfectly possible, after inserting a cd, to view and edit all metadata before ripping.

as ive said before after years of ripping/streaming cant really see the point of the core but other units to come are more important to the new naim customers.  ive had a zone ripper for 5 years and with dbpower its been a great solution linked to the NDX.  /MUSO QB which in truth is not used much.  friends that listen to the Qb love the compact streaming option so this one box solution is the way forward for naims new range.  you do need to clean each cd before ripping and this included new ones too.   I never rip a cd on the release date it seems meta date is sometimes not found.   the new hollies box set wouldnt rip on release day but a few days later all 6 cds ripped after cleaning with micro cleaning cloth

100%  Audio1946,  if you've already ripped a 'collection' of CD's on PC/Mac with dBp or whatever,  there is no point in a Core (the ripper/store concept).    If you are just moving into network player land, & more so you are an IT numpty, then it makes sense as an alternative to PC/Mac/dBp.

Morton posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

 I was a little disappointed by the melco n1a and don't think the innuos zenith or antipodes will give better solution. ( from what i read).

I think you have been misinformed, I have an Innuos Zenith, and it doesn't have any of the problems described above.

For a start, it is perfectly possible, after inserting a cd, to view and edit all metadata before ripping.

perhaps for the metadata the innuos is better, but for sound quality, i have not tested but the reviews point better prat for the unitserve, in ethernet mode.  

Keler Pierre posted:

Morton posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

 I was a little disappointed by the melco n1a and don't think the innuos zenith or antipodes will give better solution. ( from what i read).

I think you have been misinformed, I have an Innuos Zenith, and it doesn't have any of the problems described above.

For a start, it is perfectly possible, after inserting a cd, to view and edit all metadata before ripping.

perhaps for the metadata the innuos is better, but for sound quality, i have not tested but the reviews point better prat for the unitserve, in ethernet mode.  

It is not 'perhaps' & I think you owe it to yourself to go and have a listen rather than just rely on something you have read.
As for whether any of these type of units sound better than a nas, I have no idea, but I do know they don't all sound the same. I was fully intending to buy a Zen until I went to a demo where a guy from Innuos compared a Zen with a Zenith.

audio1946 posted:

  ive had a zone ripper for 5 years and with dbpower its been a great solution linked to the NDX.  you do need to clean each cd before ripping and this included new ones too.  

That doesn't give me confidence in its abilities if you need to clean a brand new CD before ripping ?

jon honeyball posted:

I suggest we wait to see what the metadata editing version of the software and firmware actually brings before continuing to pontificate about unknowns. 

For myself this will be the critical step as one who bought a core myself. 

Core as a product stands or falls as an entire package at that point. 

I am not a Core owner but I disagree with your analysis.

In my view the crucial issue is that, as Phil has made clear a few posts above, even if metadata editing will soon be implemented, it will allow users to edit Core rips only.

This sucks. Far from being a "seamless solution", it means that users will further have to manage the files that they have bought from, say, Prestoclassical, Hyperion or Qobuz in a different way from Core rips.

It is possible that US owners are used to this fussiness and find it "normal". For non-expert end users and for users that own a lot of third party audio files, it is a poor design that brings unnecessary complications for no obvious advantages: you buy hassle-free ripping at the expense of hassle-full data management.

A music server should first and foremost support importing .FLAC third party audio files with fine grained control over import rules: preserve existing metadata verbatim, extend metadata, override metadata, etc.

After successful import,  the third party data should have the same status of the internal rips.

If Naim's proprietary internal database is not flexible enough to cope with full fledged .FLAC metadata, they should first fix the database.

This is far more important than adding functionalities that, until Naim is ready with a stable, full fledged solution for editing metadata, can be taken care of by well tested, established third party software.

I installed my Core last night, fitted it with a spare 2TB hard drive I had (Toshiba E300) and so far so good.  It did take a while for the app to find it - maybe down to me using an AE as wireless bridge to the AE Extreme at the other side of the house - but once I left to make a cup of tea, came back and powered up again, it was there on the app, waiting for the setup.  

The setup itself was very straightforward and the app holds your hand through each step.  I ripped a handful of discs I had on hand in the room and while none of them were exactly mainstream releases, all the look-ups were spot on and only one where the cover art couldn't be found - not too surprising as it's not easy to find even on google image search!

I am using it in the main system as an s/pdif feed to the DAC and, connected by a DC1 cable, a short listen shows that the performance is well up to expectations.  I haven't tried it as a server to the streamers elsewhere in the house yet.  That will come later today.

I agree that metadata editing is needed, and it's a bit of a shame it didn't make the early release, but it's not been a deal breaker so far - it's early days of course and maybe this will change once I get a bad look-up. However, the fuss-free ripping - just push in the disc and a few minutes later take it out again - has certainly been seen as a positive boon by my girlfriend.  It'll play from the HDD as well while it's ripping, which is nice.  Oh, and even with a 2TB drive installed it's really, really, quiet - I've had way noisier CD players! So far, I'm liking it very much and it's doing what I expected.

Thanks Richard the play from hdd while ripping had been lost on me, good catch.

Good to hear it's working for you Richard. I think the metadata problem is far worse for imports from a Unitiserve than it is if you rip the CDs afresh, but anyway we can expect this will be solved soon.

Regarding the wait for the app to see the Core, my experience is that it often takes a minute or two for the Core to appear on line and indeed Naim warn of that when you do a Core firmware update, so I doubt that it's your network or anything to worry about.

best

David

Richard Dane posted:

...

I am using it in the main system as an s/pdif feed to the DAC and, connected by a DC1 cable, a short listen shows that the performance is well up to expectations.  ...

...

That would be precisely my use-case for a Core. It would allow me to replace 4 boxes with a single one. I would be grateful if you could provide some comparisons to approaches relying on s/pdif bridges, once the Core has settled in. Best, nbpf

Hi NBPF, of course, however, I'm not sure what you mean by "comparisons to approaches relying on s/pdif bridges". Do you mean comparisons against say, a computer via USB to USB-s/pdif convertor to DAC, and CD transport to DAC? If so, yes, I will do that once I've got more of a handle on what the Core does and given it a chance to run in a bit.

Richard Dane posted:

Hi NBPF, of course, however, I'm not sure what you mean by "comparisons to approaches relying on s/pdif bridges". Do you mean comparisons against say, a computer via USB to USB-s/pdif convertor to DAC, and CD transport to DAC? If so, yes, I will do that once I've got more of a handle on what the Core does and given it a chance to run in a bit.

Yes, I mean comparisons against a computer via USB to USB-s/pdif convertor to DAC. I seem to remember that you have played around with a few USB-s/pdif convertors from another thread. I think that, when considering electric s/pdif sources for the Naim DAC, it would be very nice to have some term of reference. No matter how the Core will turn out to perform sound quality wise against other s/pdif sources, a single box is probably a more meaningful reference than a solution consisting of long chains of cables, convertors, multiple reclockers, etc. Best, nbpf 

I must say, as a Naim loyalist and in the market for a device like the Core to rip and store my music collection, I'm hesitant to jump in. Reading the above posts, it seems that the Core is anything but a hassle-free solution. Can it sound THAT much better than my present set up - Mac powerbook into a DAC-V1 into a SN2? No ripping issues at all with the powerbook, easy to add cover art and, if you use Audrivana, you can also play DSD files. I'd love a Uniti Core, but only if it's as hassle-free as it's supposed to be. Hopefully things get sorted.....

Cbr600 posted:

I think that there are so many users experiencing these problems with metadata that there has to be a recognition that there is a fundamental issue to be resolved.

Hi,

At the moment there is no metadata editing - this is expected to be released early-to-mid April as far as I am informed here.

User edits on imported "old" music stores will also be restored at the same time.  

Cbr600 posted:

a worry for me, based on comments above, is that many of the CD's I have imported from a nas drive (that were ripped on the HDX, have now gone into the core data storage with nonsense or blank metadata. Now these were not ripped on the core but we're done on the HDX. Above comments suggest this data may not be editable in the app.

Anything that was on an old store that was imported will be editable within the app - anything that is "downloaded" will not. Just as it was on your HDX.

Cbr600 posted:

the other question in the original listing asks if updated software will automatically correct these errors, or require re ripping if CD's. I don't believe this has been answered, but am interested as my listing on the core is not at over 8000 albums, imported and maybe around 100 with missing/wrong metadata

You can use the editing functionality to do new lookups on an albums that were previously ripped on the Core (or on your HDX that were then imported into the Core)

Best

Phil

Thanks Phil, Is there a chance you can update so we can insert our own cover photo if you publish the resolution/size/file format required ?

Paulie posted:

I must say, as a Naim loyalist and in the market for a device like the Core to rip and store my music collection, I'm hesitant to jump in. Reading the above posts, it seems that the Core is anything but a hassle-free solution. Can it sound THAT much better than my present set up - Mac powerbook into a DAC-V1 into a SN2? No ripping issues at all with the powerbook, easy to add cover art and, if you use Audrivana, you can also play DSD files. I'd love a Uniti Core, but only if it's as hassle-free as it's supposed to be. Hopefully things get sorted.....

I guess none can answer your question at the moment. No matter how good it might sound as a s/pdif player, I will not buy a Core unless its software design is radically improved. Still, the Core is an interesting device and it would be a very useful term of comparison for replay solutions involving s/pdif DACs. I am not very much concerned about the current software errors and about the lack of support for metadata editing. These issues are certainly annoying but will hopefully be fixed very soon. I can understand that early adopters are disappointed, however. Naim could have easily avoided the mess by clearly communicating which Core feature were unsupported and which ones were working according to specifications when they started shipping the first devices. Perhaps they have tried to do so through their dealers and people have nevertheless bought devices with beta software releases, but I doubt it.

Morton posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Morton posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

 I was a little disappointed by the melco n1a and don't think the innuos zenith or antipodes will give better solution. ( from what i read).

I think you have been misinformed, I have an Innuos Zenith, and it doesn't have any of the problems described above.

For a start, it is perfectly possible, after inserting a cd, to view and edit all metadata before ripping.

perhaps for the metadata the innuos is better, but for sound quality, i have not tested but the reviews point better prat for the unitserve, in ethernet mode.  

It is not 'perhaps' & I think you owe it to yourself to go and have a listen rather than just rely on something you have read.
As for whether any of these type of units sound better than a nas, I have no idea, but I do know they don't all sound the same. I was fully intending to buy a Zen until I went to a demo where a guy from Innuos compared a Zen with a Zenith.

 

Morton posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Morton posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

 I was a little disappointed by the melco n1a and don't think the innuos zenith or antipodes will give better solution. ( from what i read).

I think you have been misinformed, I have an Innuos Zenith, and it doesn't have any of the problems described above.

For a start, it is perfectly possible, after inserting a cd, to view and edit all metadata before ripping.

perhaps for the metadata the innuos is better, but for sound quality, i have not tested but the reviews point better prat for the unitserve, in ethernet mode.  

It is not 'perhaps' & I think you owe it to yourself to go and have a listen rather than just rely on something you have read.
As for whether any of these type of units sound better than a nas, I have no idea, but I do know they don't all sound the same. I was fully intending to buy a Zen until I went to a demo where a guy from Innuos compared a Zen with a Zenith.

i believe you for the metadata in your system but i have a different system. My player is a naim  nds and i use naim app. But you are right,  the innuos zenith have very good press and i would be interested to hear it. But no dealer i know have it.   I think i will go personally with a uniti core, but i am waiting for now, this product must be more mature...

Paulie posted:

 Can it sound THAT much better than my present set up - Mac powerbook into a DAC-V1 into a SN2? 

Comparing here Audirvana on a MacBookPro into a Metrum Pavane DAC via USB, vs the Core into the Pavane via S/PDIF (both into an SN2), the Core is the clear winner. The Audirvana-Mac flattens the presentation. Literally. There is very little depth. The Core opens this up, helping create the illusion of real musicians and a clearer sense of musical threads. Timbral density is improved too. Overall, the Core's presentation is far more engaging than the MacBook. Which was actually pretty impressive, up to now.

Jan

(MacBookPro > Oyaide Neo D+ USB) / (Core > Vivat S/PDIF) > Metrum Pavane > Vivat XLR to RCA > SN2 > Vivat speaker cables> Graham Audio LS5/9 > ears

I wouldn't know what metadata editing is or how to do it. All I know is that I have a unitiserve backed up by a QNAP feeding my NDS and all is fine - perhaps I shouldn't have said that! One of the reasons why I still keep 3 analogue sources too....if all else fails I have a NAT01, LP12 and a Revox B77. If nothing else these remind me what wonderful sounds can still be had from analogue once you get beyond all the hi-res hype and marketing claims.

I'm a real believer in Naim and am sure that they will come through this one. No doubt Phil is looking forward to a cool dark room somewhere

nbpf posted:

Paulie posted:

... Can it sound THAT much better than my present set up - Mac powerbook into a DAC-V1 into a SN2? ...

I guess none can answer your question at the moment. ...

Jan-Erik Nordoen posted:

Paulie posted:

 Can it sound THAT much better than my present set up - Mac powerbook into a DAC-V1 into a SN2? 

Comparing here Audirvana on a MacBookPro into a Metrum Pavane DAC via USB, vs the Core into the Pavane via S/PDIF (both into an SN2), the Core is the clear winner. ...

Thus, I was wrong. Very nice results Jan-Erik, was the MacBookPro connected to the same power plug as the Core?

No, the Macbook was running from its battery.