UnitiCore - Does what it says on the box ..... or not !

A simple way (I think it would be simple) to deal with the editing of downloads would be to optionally allow the Core to import the contents of its downloads folder into the main music store, where they could be edited just like any other import, eg from a US or HDX.

best

David

Hi,

There would actually be a huge amount of work in doing that - normalization of external metadata, automatic generation of folder structures, support for file formats other than FLAC or WAV within a music store etc.

It wouldn't be a small undertaking.

Best

Phil

So Naim wouldn't want to do any "work" to make the product best in class / fit for purpose? The more Naim say stuff like this the more I think what is the point in their so called turn-key ripping machine solution when I can do it just as easily with my PC.

All that is needed is to treat the music folder in downloads as if it were a CD, perhaps insist that it will only process .wav files and simply use the filename as the track name and the folder name as the artist.  We can edit the metadata ourselves once integrated / ripped.  This doesn't sound like a large undertaking to me.

In the past I have ripped a vinyl album, burned it on to a CD then ripped the CD via Unitiserve to get it in the database.  I then edited the metadata manually and added a folder picture.

Surely it's just a case that this is what the Core does, and you like it or you don't? If you don't like it, don't buy it. I personally think it's a total waste of time, so I haven't bought one. If Naim don't want to add feature X or feature Y, that's their prerogative.

David Hendon posted:

Richard Morris posted:

Trevor Wilson posted:

…Regarding editing imported music in the download folder: we did not specify this, as the majority of music dropped here will be from another primary rip or source and pre-edited. We will of course continue to monitor usage patterns but is not a priority feature today. This feature has never been part of the traditional Naim Server architecture and has not been significantly requested, hence out lack of priority…

Trevor

Very disappointing. Most downloads need editing in my experience. 'Pre-editing' is variable. One supplier I use always displays the artist in caps, another leaves 'genre' blank.

Yes, you can do it via Metadatics but if you make a mistake or have a rethink on how you want the data to appear then the only option is to remove the download, edit and recopy to the drive. That's cumbersome and short-sighted.

+1

I also find it disappointing and surprising that Naim are taking this attitude. The argument that it was never part of Naim's server architecture is frankly fatuous. User-replaceable hard disc drives weren't part of Naim's server architecture either, but that was changed in the new product.

best

David

+1

Sounds like Laziness to me

Quite. +1 is the epitome of laziness. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Surely it's just a case that this is what the Core does, and you like it or you don't? If you don't like it, don't buy it. I personally think it's a total waste of time, so I haven't bought one. If Naim don't want to add feature X or feature Y, that's their prerogative.

It is designed to make the process of transferring a persons CD collection, quicker, easier and more organised.

These simple suggestions would help achieve this goal.

The Core has less features than the Unitiserve which is confusing everyone because hi-fi products from Naim are expected to be progressive.

Christine posted:

So Naim wouldn't want to do any "work" to make the product best in class / fit for purpose?

Hi Christine,

I don't believe that I have said that at all - my reply was to David Hendons' "A simple way (I think it would be simple) to deal with the editing of downloads would be to optionally allow the Core to import the contents of its downloads folder into the main music store, where they could be edited just like any other import, eg from a US or HDX." and I was stating that it would be a lot of work and wouldn't be simple.

Functionality requests are always welcome and are logged for the directors and software teams to go through at the regular product development meetings. 

Christine posted:

The more Naim say stuff like this the more I think what is the point in their so called turn-key ripping machine solution when I can do it just as easily with my PC. 

It may be that Core simply isn't what you want ... ?

Christine posted:

All that is needed is to treat the music folder in downloads as if it were a CD, perhaps insist that it will only process .wav files and simply use the filename as the track name and the folder name as the artist.  We can edit the metadata ourselves once integrated / ripped.  This doesn't sound like a large undertaking to me.

Many things that seem simple are actually far more complex in reality - what you describe there might appear simple but in reality wouldn't be a trivial task to implement.

Christine posted:

In the past I have ripped a vinyl album, burned it on to a CD then ripped the CD via Unitiserve to get it in the database.  I then edited the metadata manually and added a folder picture.

Yes, that would be fine to do...

Best

Phil

Richard Morris posted:

Most downloads need editing in my experience.

Yes, you can do it via Metadatics but if you make a mistake or have a rethink on how you want the data to appear then the only option is to remove the download, edit and recopy to the drive. That's cumbersome and short-sighted.

There's no need to remove a download from the Unitiserve Downloads folder to edit it with Metadatics or whatever. You can do it while the files are still on the US, you just may need to do a rescan to get the edits to show up. I'd be surprised if the Core was any different in this respect.

I've been doing this for some time on my US with no issues. Your comment got me thinking that maybe it was a bad idea, but I've just phoned Phil, who assures me that it's OK to do this. (Thanks, Phil!) 

Edit - can you see the US folders on a Mac or PC to open them with Metadatics? If not, that would obviously make the Core different after all!?

Christine posted:

So Naim wouldn't want to do any "work" to make the product best in class / fit for purpose? The more Naim say stuff like this the more I think what is the point in their so called turn-key ripping machine solution when I can do it just as easily with my PC.

All that is needed is to treat the music folder in downloads as if it were a CD, perhaps insist that it will only process .wav files and simply use the filename as the track name and the folder name as the artist.  We can edit the metadata ourselves once integrated / ripped.  This doesn't sound like a large undertaking to me.

In the past I have ripped a vinyl album, burned it on to a CD then ripped the CD via Unitiserve to get it in the database.  I then edited the metadata manually and added a folder picture.

 

 

 

 

when i read Trevor naim audio response then yours, i understand that finally there will not be a desktop client for the core but an improved app . Do you think or are you sure that this improved app will not have the possibility to change the metadata of rips or downloads ?

Trevor Wilson posted:

Many thanks for the direct and open feedback. We are aware that this one has not been as perfect a launch as we planned and your views are noted and felt here at Naim. We strive to exceed expectations and are applying all efforts to accelerate feature and bug fixing upgrades to ensure your Uniti Core delights.

We felt confident in releasing Core, as a key feature we built into our new platform was simple over the air updates that allowed for continued product improvement, bug fixing and feature updates to add even greater value over the lifetime of the product. Such updates have been forthcoming since launch. Core software development was always the priority as the ripping engine capability transfers to Uniti Star.

We’ve had great feedback on sound quality and many customers are reporting they really enjoy the product.

However, we recognise some updates have taken more time than we had ever hoped. The importance of metadata editing cannot be underestimated and we understand the frustration in this delay. We are currently planning to release this Mid-April. Our Beta testers have been informed to expect a Beta of Metadata editing by the end of this week. We have put great effort into the integration of the ripping application and player into one combined app, with an improved editing function, which we feel is more elegant than ever.

We made the decision to not develop a desktop version applying our effort into mobile, which our current user data suggests is by far the most widely used interface – tablet and smart phone. We know this will disappoint some users and in an ideal world we would cater for every instance and user case.

Regarding editing imported music in the download folder: we did not specify this, as the majority of music dropped here will be from another primary rip or source and pre-edited. We will of course continue to monitor usage patterns but is not a priority feature today. This feature has never been part of the traditional Naim Server architecture and has not been significantly requested, hence out lack of priority.

Once again, I’m sorry we have disappointed you, but please let me assure you that we take every criticism seriously and are working tremendously hard at making Core a product that every owner is both pleased with and proud of owning.

Trevor

do you think it will be possible in the near future to modify the name of an album or add a different cover with the naim app?  so like with desktop client but directly with the app using a tablet or phone?  can you give me a clear , simple and precise response for a french guy like me?  thanks

ChrisSU posted:

Richard Morris posted:

Most downloads need editing in my experience.

Yes, you can do it via Metadatics but if you make a mistake or have a rethink on how you want the data to appear then the only option is to remove the download, edit and recopy to the drive. That's cumbersome and short-sighted.

There's no need to remove a download from the Unitiserve Downloads folder to edit it with Metadatics or whatever. You can do it while the files are still on the US, you just may need to do a rescan to get the edits to show up. I'd be surprised if the Core was any different in this respect.

I've been doing this for some time on my US with no issues. Your comment got me thinking that maybe it was a bad idea, but I've just phoned Phil, who assures me that it's OK to do this. (Thanks, Phil!) 

Edit - can you see the US folders on a Mac or PC to open them with Metadatics? If not, that would obviously make the Core different after all!?

Just to say that I have directly edited the Core Downloads folder like this and it worked fine. The Core took a while to recognise the edits but got there in the end.

i always find it difficult to see Naim server folders with my windows 7 PC but "mapping" the relevant folder sorts that out.

best

David

It is getting more and more " lets try melco  or innous zenith " post, it is the curse of abandoning classical look

Trevor Wilson posted:

...

Regarding editing imported music in the download folder: we did not specify this, as the majority of music dropped here will be from another primary rip or source and pre-edited. We will of course continue to monitor usage patterns but is not a priority feature today. This feature has never been part of the traditional Naim Server architecture and has not been significantly requested, hence out lack of priority.

...

The problem is that editing metadata is not a one-shot process. As a music collection increases in size and in breadth, new needs tend to arise: new indexes are introduced, others are removed; index values change.

Thus, a system that does not support full integration of internal rips and third party downloads is far from being a simple, seamless solution to the problem of managing and storing a music collection. In fact, it can be very much of an obstacle in the way of such solutions.

It is possible that US owners are used to treat US rips and imported files differently. But times have changed, new perspective owners have different needs and solutions that seven years ago were perhaps fine are today unacceptable.  

From a user's perspective, all is needed are full fledged "import FLAC" and "export FLAC" functionalities. As a first step, there is no need to support other formats. Conversion to and from .FLAC can be done externally. But it is essential that files which are obtained with "import FLAC" have the same status of internal Core rips. And we need of course fine grained importing rules, inclusive one for importing metadata verbatim. 

Keler Pierre posted:

Christine posted:

So Naim wouldn't want to do any "work" to make the product best in class / fit for purpose? The more Naim say stuff like this the more I think what is the point in their so called turn-key ripping machine solution when I can do it just as easily with my PC.

All that is needed is to treat the music folder in downloads as if it were a CD, perhaps insist that it will only process .wav files and simply use the filename as the track name and the folder name as the artist.  We can edit the metadata ourselves once integrated / ripped.  This doesn't sound like a large undertaking to me.

In the past I have ripped a vinyl album, burned it on to a CD then ripped the CD via Unitiserve to get it in the database.  I then edited the metadata manually and added a folder picture.

when i read Trevor naim audio response then yours, i understand that finally there will not be a desktop client for the core but an improved app . Do you think or are you sure that this improved app will not have the possibility to change the metadata of rips or downloads ?

CD rips, yes. Downloads, no.

My two pence worth....

Had my Core since January, initial teething problems re seeing files on Mac, therefore I imported my collection as didn't fancy ripping 4-5k CDs* plus there was the outstanding development re metadata editing..all imported ok, only metadata issues was a fair amount of artwork didn't transfer over. 

*might well do it in the future when Core applications are fully formed

The issue re files on Mac has now been resolved so dealing with missing artwork and copying the files across is far less time consuming than importing so tidying exercise underway...

ideally (in my ordered mind) I would have liked a file set up that gathered both rips and downloads together and that you could edit metadata either on Mac or IPAD, however, I am not PC savvy enough to understand if this is viable and if so whether it is highly time / cost consuming...alas I will wait to see what the what the metadata editing facility brings before I decide to re rip...

however, firstly all of my music is now in one place,  easy to review on the app, on a replaceable Internal drive (important from my perspective), all very easy to back up and not hugely time consuming...I have now rediscovered my music collection and most importantly the Core to my ears delivers a wonderful sound...initially I was going to buy the Nova but now I have ordered a 272 and 250DR... I think I may well be getting some divorce papers served soon....!

Finally I do think the team at Naim have missed a trick or two on this journey, and I'm sure a number of people here believe that for far lesser price you could get just as good a sound / performance out of a NAS but I am not knowledgeable enough to argue that one...but that said am I pleased I bought my Core....indeed I am.

p.s. I also like the fact that PH takes so much time out in answering queries etc...

I think earlier in the tread it was mentioned that there wasn't much requests for improved metadata editing in the follows folder, when looking at how many cores have been sold.

maybe interested parties on the forum should add their weight to this request , and might get Naim to consider this. How about an online petition?

Cbr600 posted:

I think earlier in the tread it was mentioned that there wasn't much requests for improved metadata editing in the follows folder, when looking at how many cores have been sold.

maybe interested parties on the forum should add their weight to this request , and might get Naim to consider this. How about an online petition?

if it is not possible in near future inside the improved app, i will sign too this petition.

David O posted:

My two pence worth....

Had my Core since January, initial teething problems re seeing files on Mac, therefore I imported my collection as didn't fancy ripping 4-5k CDs* plus there was the outstanding development re metadata editing..all imported ok, only metadata issues was a fair amount of artwork didn't transfer over. 

*might well do it in the future when Core applications are fully formed

The issue re files on Mac has now been resolved so dealing with missing artwork and copying the files across is far less time consuming than importing so tidying exercise underway...

ideally (in my ordered mind) I would have liked a file set up that gathered both rips and downloads together and that you could edit metadata either on Mac or IPAD, however, I am not PC savvy enough to understand if this is viable and if so whether it is highly time / cost consuming...alas I will wait to see what the what the metadata editing facility brings before I decide to re rip...

however, firstly all of my music is now in one place,  easy to review on the app, on a replaceable Internal drive (important from my perspective), all very easy to back up and not hugely time consuming...I have now rediscovered my music collection and most importantly the Core to my ears delivers a wonderful sound...initially I was going to buy the Nova but now I have ordered a 272 and 250DR... I think I may well be getting some divorce papers served soon....!

Finally I do think the team at Naim have missed a trick or two on this journey, and I'm sure a number of people here believe that for far lesser price you could get just as good a sound / performance out of a NAS but I am not knowledgeable enough to argue that one...but that said am I pleased I bought my Core....indeed I am.

p.s. I also like the fact that PH takes so much time out in answering queries etc...

Of course, if the thing hadn't been released in a semi functional state, Phil wouldn't need to waste his time. 

when i borrowed the core and compared it to my unitserve, i appreciated three  things : the first was a little more clear and dynamic sound. Then the possibility to put ssd drive inside ( my unitserve is making frequently annoying noise) , to put a good power cord on it also.

Finally i liked the possibility to import downloads using only the ipad.

But the problem with metadata, with rips and downloads, are the important reason for me not to buy it now.

Cbr600 posted:

I think earlier in the tread it was mentioned that there wasn't much requests for improved metadata editing in the follows folder, when looking at how many cores have been sold.

maybe interested parties on the forum should add their weight to this request , and might get Naim to consider this. How about an online petition?

I am signing too for this petition.

Regards,

Sourav

I'm also holding off on my purchase of a Core, pending resolution of the issues.  In addition, my dealer has yet to receive a Core that sounds as good as my existing UnitiServe SSD (large inter-unit variability of the four or so Cores he's received to date), so until reproducibility of sound between Core units is resolved as well, neither of us wants to pay money to become beta testers of this product that's still development.  

My UnitiServe SSD gives me great sound (certainly much better than a NAS-only solution) and allows me to do all the things that I need to do (editing, etc.), so no need to change or spend money on a replacement product that doesn't currently deliver the sound or features of what I'm currently enjoying today.

Having said that, once the Issues with the Core have been resolved, I'm happy to come back and reconsider.

ATB.  George.

I think it was Paul Stevens who said that anyone can make a great sounding amp. The difficult bit is to make thousands of great amps that all sound the same. On that basis, your post is a bit of a worry George.

Keith

Yes Keith - I agree, however I understand that Naim have their best and brightest (including their best 'golden ears') working on this and will identify and resolve the issues.

Core will be a great product once it's fully developed.

ATB. George.

GeeJay posted:

Core will be a great product once it's fully developed.

ATB. George.

So these first owners are sort of unwilling beta-testers? Seriously, I know that Naim takes everything seriously and I am not remotely expert of, or interested in, streaming to comment properly, but I once wrote to Naim asking if the HDX, then just released, could connect to the Internet and download and store music directly from websites. Of course not, it was only for ripping CDs, which meant changing the storing system from single optical to collective hard disc.

That's the point for me: until the day a machine will be done that connects with music-selling download sites directly, I buy music and it downloads on my device (yes, I know that the device exists and is called a computer) I won't be interested and will still prefer to spin a CD with its proper tool. Having to choose between simply changing status to my CD collection (a track on a CD or a track on a HD or SSD) or having to use a computer to access the Internet and buy, to then transfer the 'liquid' file either to a HD or keep it on the computer itself, needing a costly machine to simply take the file from the computer to make it visible to an amp, gives exactly the dimension of temporariness to everything that I still find so discouraging.

But I admire the pioneers (the customers) who are, with their patience and dedication, helping Naim to finally release what they want. I wonder why Naim, before accepting being bought by Focal, hasn't considered being bought by its customers – a coop, or something. I would have subscribed. Who knows if a way did exist.