linear ps for switch and routers

ok mike-b, thanks. I will consider all that.

Salut Keler Pierre,  if it helps understand my set up  ...........  

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I hope so. What is wrong with SMPS? 

I actually think this is a complex question.

The normal accusation leveled at SMPS is that they kick high frequency noise back into the mains.

When I bought my microRendu (mR) I also got an IFI 9V iPower. These have been built using noise cancellation to stop rubbish being sent back into the mains. There was a good thread on Computer Audiophile (Power Supply (8+) Group Test) where a series of PSUs were measured, and the IFI did very well. However, I preferred the SBooster - my comment on CA:

SBooster LPSU 6v:

Got this last Friday. This is not a Damascene experience, in my system it does not change the character of what I hear; bare in mind that I am passing the mR output into a Mutec MC-3+USB. What the SBooster does do is:

1. Improve the quality of the high frequencies; and
2. Further uncover low level information in the music.

Example:

Signe from Eric Clapton Unplugged.

Standard test piece for me. Included in the supporting percussion are a triangle and wood blocks. These were evident before but, in the case of the triangle the emphasis was on the leading edge and it could almost sound truncated, and out of time in places; now you hear the rounded ring, it falls further back into the mix but you can here what the percussionist is doing. Similarly the wooden blocks are more of the piece and you can hear the resounding wooden sound, rather than a greater emphasis on the strike.

In summary, the Sbooster improves on what my system is doing right. This can almost sound minor, but in terms of what we are after in High Fidelity I suspect it is not - I just don't think it will supply this on its own. If your system is in good shape it will help focus what is already there.

In my system the effect of removing SMPS has been to remove edge leading to a more relaxed, but no less detailed and dynamic, presentation. That said the introduction of a bit of edge with the right music can be a boon!

However, I believe the effect of SMPS depends on how the device is engineered. I noticed no such edge with my Naim NS01, which uses SMPS. While I would expect Naim to take the time and trouble to address SMPS issues I would NOT expect this of IT companies.

M

Keler Pierre posted:

Mr Underhill posted:

I decided to get rid of as many SMPSs as possible. For my switch I bought a cheap Chinese R-Core LPSU from a popular auction site; £60.

I feel this delivered a less edgy sound.

I replaced my IFI 9V with an SBooster. This revealed more high frequency detail.

Have you powered the optical bridge with LPSUs?

M

 

do you have also the optical bridge?   i don't know if it is useful to put linear ps on the router and first switch and also have an optical bridge. Perhaps it is too much?

Hi Keler,

Yes.

In my HiFi area I replaced the bridge with an EMO-70HD passive device. However, at that time the bridge was powered with an LPSU and an IFI iPower. I moved it into the loft and use it after my CISCO switch for the cable that leads to my HiFi. Since then I have added a second LPSU.

Now that I have, at last, got my system sounding really very good I should re-do a number of the test I did and see if they still hold true.

I am just buying a further R-Core LPSU, one that does 9V and 5V. My intention is to use this initially to replace my SBooster powering my microRendu (mR) and see what I hear, then add the SBooster to power the Raspberry Pi 3 that I use to run LMS. Finally, I will go back to the SBooster on the mR  and power the RP3 with the R-Core. While I am doing all this I will take out the EMO and the Bridge and re-do all the tests.

M

Keler Pierre posted:

i don't know what is iFi?  i use also hdplex to power my final switch, where the nds is connected.

IFI = IFI iPower SMPS

These measure incredibly well, and now include Active Noise Cancellation to stop rubbish being pushed into the mains .....but, I still preferred the SBooster, at four time the cost.

M

charlesphoto posted:

I power my downstream FMC from an HDPLEX; the upstream one with an iFi (on a different circuit). Noticed a small increase in sound quality by powering the upstream with the iFi. In my office I power a pair of FMC's to the UQ with iFi's - one of them I use a Y splitter on the cable and also power a 5v switch - the two FMC's and switch are all plugged into the same wiremold strip (and the UQ into the same outlet). No idea what's doing what the most (I had the two iFi's on hand) but it sounds dang good! 

Hi Charles,

Just buying yet another R-Core to test in various positions - of which this will be one! I'll report back.

M

Hi Charles,

Just buying yet another R-Core to test in various positions - of which this will be one! I'll report back.

M

I take it you're getting an inexpensive Chinese one? I have a couple and they work (one on my main switch and another for my Vortexbox). But for the rendu if you ever have the dosh, I highly recommend the Uptone LPS-1. It's a game changer for sure. I really feel like it and the pair of FMC's made the overall biggest difference, and the rest of the lps's and cables etc just icing on the cake. 

Hi Charles,

R-Core = yes, cheap Chinese one.

I keep toying with the idea of an LPS1.

Have you followed the various threads by Bob? Uber USB and before that AOIP. He is something of a trail blazer, but has to move on from various fora as he has etiquette issues. Alex lent him an LPS1 and he thought it was good, but only marginally better that an R-Core he recommends. Thought I'd try the R-Core first, as the SBooster is non-too shabby.

M

Like anything in hifi it all really depends on the system I think. All I know is I heard an instant and definable jump in sq with the Uptone vs the HDPLEX. Never heard an SBooster so no idea where it lands. 

The 100va 12A R-Core I got from China stunk to high heaven of rosin solder. Took about a week to fully burn off the smell but it works fine and if nothing else will probably increase the life of my VB. Let us know what you hear! 

I use HDPLEX powering switch & nas. Clear upgrade. I have not considered chinese or any more higher price versions.

Mr Underhill posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Mr Underhill posted:

I decided to get rid of as many SMPSs as possible. For my switch I bought a cheap Chinese R-Core LPSU from a popular auction site; £60.

I feel this delivered a less edgy sound.

I replaced my IFI 9V with an SBooster. This revealed more high frequency detail.

Have you powered the optical bridge with LPSUs?

M

 

do you have also the optical bridge?   i don't know if it is useful to put linear ps on the router and first switch and also have an optical bridge. Perhaps it is too much?

Hi Keler,

Yes.

In my HiFi area I replaced the bridge with an EMO-70HD passive device. However, at that time the bridge was powered with an LPSU and an IFI iPower. I moved it into the loft and use it after my CISCO switch for the cable that leads to my HiFi. Since then I have added a second LPSU.

Now that I have, at last, got my system sounding really very good I should re-do a number of the test I did and see if they still hold true.

I am just buying a further R-Core LPSU, one that does 9V and 5V. My intention is to use this initially to replace my SBooster powering my microRendu (mR) and see what I hear, then add the SBooster to power the Raspberry Pi 3 that I use to run LMS. Finally, I will go back to the SBooster on the mR  and power the RP3 with the R-Core. While I am doing all this I will take out the EMO and the Bridge and re-do all the tests.

M

it seems that no one uses the same material to clean ethernet. Some likes linear ps like uptone, other ipower, other Sbooster, and  also ups. Jason Kennedy recommends mcru linear ps for router and switch and more a cad audio ground control. 

I asked mcru site, they recommends me ps main plant conditionner .Another likes his isotek main conditionner.

For myself, i have an optical bridge with hdplex on the last switch and also tp ps for unitserve. The audioquest diamond on nds has also filtration. 

So i wonder if it is worth for me to add something else, perhaps a little main conditionner for my router and hdplex and tp ps. 

i will continue to consider all that...

sbilotta posted:

I put an ifi on a Paul Pang switch and there was a clear (even if not dramatic) improvement.

Should be getting an LPS-1 soon and will swap it out and let you know the outcome.

i can't find the sites to find the prices or buy paul pang switch and ifi . can you give me the names of the sites? thanks

Mike-B posted:

Salut Keler Pierre,  if it helps understand my set up  ...........  

your set up seems very good. But it is different from me: my nas( unitserve) is fed by tp ps. Yours go the the UPS.  Your router and switch go to the Ups, and for me i use an optical bridge between switch and nds( with hdplex ps on the last switch). 

So, what is working for you does't work necessarily for me. I don't know if adding this Ups on my system will not be too much.  But it is interesting to conversate about all this. It seems not so easy.   Mcru site recommends me PS power plant... 

Hi Keler,

On CA there are a couple of interesting threads on AC mains isolation. There John Swenson recommends a Topaz Isolation Transformer and putting all your equipment on a simple strip. He maintains this addresses issues with Leakage loops, something which his LPS1 effectively blocks. Worth reading and considering. Not done this myself.

M

Mr Underhill posted:

Hi Keler,

On CA there are a couple of interesting threads on AC mains isolation. There John Swenson recommends a Topaz Isolation Transformer and putting all your equipment on a simple strip. He maintains this addresses issues with Leakage loops, something which his LPS1 effectively blocks. Worth reading and considering. Not done this myself.

M

thanks, i will take a look.  On audiostream you have an article on paul pang switch and other devices to clean ethernet, and on recent Ear audio you have jason kennedy article on mcru linear ps and cad audio ground control.

Keler Pierre posted:

your set up seems very good. But it is different from me: my nas( unitserve) is fed by tp ps. Yours go the the UPS.  Your router and switch go to the Ups, and for me i use an optical bridge between switch and nds( with hdplex ps on the last switch). 

So, what is working for you does't work necessarily for me. I don't know if adding this Ups on my system will not be too much.  But it is interesting to conversate about all this. It seems not so easy.   Mcru site recommends me PS power plant... 

The most common UPS for the forum members is APC,  PS Power is a ridiculous price,  I guess one is intended for the IT market, the other for audio madness.    There is no reason why your TP-PS cannot be powered by UPS & the same for your wireless hub,  keeping wireless alive during power failures is useful for saving & safely shutting down PC/Mac any work in progress.   There is no point in having UPS power for the optical bridge as a power failure means the NDS & amps are powerless  

Keler Pierre posted:

sbilotta posted:

I put an ifi on a Paul Pang switch and there was a clear (even if not dramatic) improvement.

Should be getting an LPS-1 soon and will swap it out and let you know the outcome.

i can't find the sites to find the prices or buy paul pang switch and ifi . can you give me the names of the sites? thanks

I bought the switch on the JCAT european site and the ifi on the notorious auction site

Mike-B posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

your set up seems very good. But it is different from me: my nas( unitserve) is fed by tp ps. Yours go the the UPS.  Your router and switch go to the Ups, and for me i use an optical bridge between switch and nds( with hdplex ps on the last switch). 

So, what is working for you does't work necessarily for me. I don't know if adding this Ups on my system will not be too much.  But it is interesting to conversate about all this. It seems not so easy.   Mcru site recommends me PS power plant... 

The most common UPS for the forum members is APC,  PS Power is a ridiculous price,  I guess one is intended for the IT market, the other for audio madness.    There is no reason why your TP-PS cannot be powered by UPS & the same for your wireless hub,  keeping wireless alive during power failures is useful for saving & safely shutting down PC/Mac any work in progress.   There is no point in having UPS power for the optical bridge as a power failure means the NDS & amps are powerless  

the ps audio dectet power center exactly, the cost is near the aps if i remember well. Maybe Aps will be good for me, i don't know.  But the safety, security for power failures is not what i search first. My goal is to clean ethernet and have better sound quality with my nds/555dr/unitserve tps set up. But perhaps your Apc does that?

greekspec2 posted:

I got a spare PowerLine I was thinking of using on my modem with a C7-C14 IEC adapter since my modem has a built in PS...not sure if any gains over the AQ 1.5 NRG I have on it now

Wow, I think that would be some serious overkill. Sell the PL and either buy better LPSU elsewhere in the system, optical bridges if you don't have yet or EMO isolation filter, or better yet more music. I wouldn't try and overthink this too much. 

KELER: Have you tried a better made dc cable between the US and tp-lps? Beyond going with different brand of server altogether, you may be at the limits of what you can do upstream and APC or PS strip may make very little difference depending on your mains set up, iso if you have an optical bridge. What about the ethernet cable into the NDS? You may be chasing a ghost that doesn't actually exist. 

Keler Pierre posted:

My goal is to clean ethernet and have better sound quality with my nds/555dr/unitserve tps set up. But perhaps your Apc does that?

 The way I have the various SMPS's powered from the APC is not a total solution,  but it does play a part.  The APC provides an isolated & suppressed power supply to the SMPS's associated with my LAN & helps quieten noise in that area.

Mike:

Mind me asking which APC model you have? 

Best,

CP

charlesphoto posted:

Mike:  Mind me asking which APC model you have? 

Hi Charles,   APC BackUp CS350.      I have the NAS run a soft close down after 10 seconds power failure,  not much point in streaming to a powered off NDX.   The 350VA battery capacity gives more than enough power to enable saving & closing any PC/laptop work thats in progress & to politely finish up any phone calls,  I've not tried pushing the limits to APC low battery shutdown but its at least 40 minutes.    Its reassuring to get an e-mail for any abnormal power events that I may not even know about & its easy to run a function test every 6 months or so.  

I use an APC UPS because I was fed up of loosing data and disks when we used to get frequent power cuts. UK Power Networks upgraded our village overhead wiring, and the power cut situation improved significantly, but still kept my UPS. I power a switch of it as I have multiple NASs and use the UPS status and signalling between them via the Ethernet.. this of course allows the NASs to power down in a controlled way when the UPS starts to become exhausted... I did have a power cut once whilst I was doing an automatic weekly backup, it could have ended in tears but all was nicely handled.

Simon

HH, which cisco swicth did you get yourself ?