Kudos Super 20a in an Active System

Interesting stuff. From the new Titan 707 demo at Acoustica it appears that a newly developed SNAXO is likely to be available for the 707 and, one would assume, for the S20a also. I guess we will have to wait and see.

Do you feel able to say what active system you used with the S20as?

Its my normal system - in the pictures

This is the first time I've read that there might be Kudos versions of the Snaxo. But it's good to know that there are active alternatives should my SL2s once break beyond repair.

Regarding sunbeamgls' system, the picture is not very revealing, but I guess there is a Linn Exaktbox involved?

jfritzen posted:

This is the first time I've read that there might be Kudos versions of the Snaxo. But it's good to know that there are active alternatives should my SL2s once break beyond repair.

The Kudos guys at the Acoustica show told me you can order a Snaxo for the 707s now (although I suppose Naim might have something to say about that!) 

You can see more here, JFRITZEN is correct.  Apologies for the poor phone pics.

jfritzen posted:

This is the first time I've read that there might be Kudos versions of the Snaxo. But it's good to know that there are active alternatives should my SL2s once break beyond repair.

Take a look at the T-707 thread and the Acoustica Chester Hifi Show 2017 thread for more info.

SUNBEAMGLS, you are possibly unique having heard two Kudos active systems, one at home and the other at the Acoustica event if I am not mistaken.

The two systems had different sources, crossovers, amplification, speakers, cables and listening rooms so comparisons would be silly. But go on, indulge us a bit. 

nigelb posted:

SUNBEAMGLS, you are possibly unique having heard two Kudos active systems, one at home and the other at the Acoustica event if I am not mistaken.

The two systems had different sources, crossovers, amplification, speakers, cables and listening rooms so comparisons would be silly. But go on, indulge us a bit. 

Nigel, you're kind of right.  But its 5 different active systems    I guess the Kudos guys heard them too, but it might be unique to be an independent who's heard them all:

T-808 with Linn Klimax Exakt streamer and Solo amps (National Audio Show 2015)

T-808 with Behringer Crossover and Naim 500 series stuff (Chester Show 2016)

T-808 with Devialet (Indulgence 2016)

T-707 with Naim 500 series and SNAXO (Chester Show 2017)

Super 20a with all Akurate Linn Exakt (Home, 2017)

I'm not sure what this would tell you, given all the differences you've already listed, but here are some thoughts:

T-808 with Linn Klimax Exakt - I quite enjoyed this system and thought it sounded better than the Naim passive system next door, but as the Exakt crossovers have been completely re-written since then, I think there is no longer any value in this experience.

T-808 with Behringer and Naim - Heard this same system but without the Behringer and less amps as a passive system in the previous year in the same room.  Whilst this was still the best sounding system at the show, it was somewhat underwhelming compared to the passive system the previous year.  I'm not a fan of the Behringer crossover, based on this experience

T-808 with Devialet - this was the best I've heard the T-808s and it was a very good sounding system - very dynamic, lots of details, no harshness to note and drives the tunes along well.  I couldn't live with all those cables reflected in the top of the chrome Devialet boxes though! 

T-707 with Naim and SNAXO - the best of all these systems.  Stayed in the room for a couple of hours to listen to that - the 707 seems to be a bit more fun than the 808 - it only lacks the very lowest of bass and I think the 707 possibly does vocals better than the 808 too.

S20a - a startling improvement on passive in a Naim or Linn system.  Exakt and active seems to suit them well, but the pair we had needed some taming of the treble by about 3dB from 3.5kHz upwards - but they were only about 50 hours old.  They're lighter weight than the 707 and 808, as you might expect, but with Exakt their level of detail is absolutely astonishing and vocals are fantastic.

A conclusion?  I'd love to hear the T-707 on the end of Klimax Exakt electronics and compare with Linn power amps and Naim power amps.  Perhaps KEDSM, Klimax Katalyst Exaktbox and a pair of 250DRs into the 707s? Would really like to hear that.

Many thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts. Of course it is a bit silly to compare but you seemed to appreciate the Naim activation option with Kudos speakers. Would you not consider going down this route or would the switch from Linn be too costly? Maybe you prefer the Linn approach.

I'm thinking of getting a pair of S20a speakers and using them active initially. Assuming Naim will produce a SNAXO for these speakers as well as the 707's, future activation looks interesting, particularly as I already have one 250DR. Or maybe I should wait for the 606's to appear or save up for some 707's. Any consideration will be demoed at home though.

Decisions, decisions!

The first line of the second paragraph should read '.........and using them passively initially.'

Following the "same" thread on the Linn forum and here, your descriptions of each Kudos system are really useful.

I also heard the Linn Exakt, Devialet active and Naim passive 808s and, earlier this year, the 707s at Bristol, and I'd possibly agree with your assessment that the 707s probably just pip it, although I'd have to add that the full Klimax 808 installation at Cymbiosis was the best system I've heard in the past few years. That was however both too big and too expensive for me but the 707s and 606s are definitely on the radar.  

Your suggestion of going active with a pair of 250DRs would be fascinating and I'd be very keen to do a comparison between them and a pair of Klimax Twins. Any thoughts?

As as it stands, my S20s are running passively and, as you imply, absolutely needed a couple of hundred hours before they sounded at their best in the top end. They also work exceptionally fronted by a Klimax Katalyst DS (DSM in my case feeding into a 552, so there's the relatively "easy" option of going down the Exakt route should that prove better). I had not thought about  having them converted to active, but given your description, maybe it's something to consider....

Nigelb - I suspect Klimax Katalyst Exakt with 250DRs into 707 would be a great combination but massively outside my budget for the forseeable. 

DaveJ - see above, but without trying Twin vs 250DR its impossible to say. If your Super 20s are the original passive version then conversion to active operation is probably a (reversible) DIY possibility but having them converted by Kudos is also possible for an exceptionally high cost.

Cymbiosis is where the comparison could be made of course.

ChrisSU posted:

jfritzen posted:

This is the first time I've read that there might be Kudos versions of the Snaxo. But it's good to know that there are active alternatives should my SL2s once break beyond repair.

The Kudos guys at the Acoustica show told me you can order a Snaxo for the 707s now (although I suppose Naim might have something to say about that!) 

A first for me also, and the Kudos guys leaked the information, that a Snaxo can be ordered now!  

Calling Mr. Richard Dane!

I remember the last big scoop, no more Ovators!

But this is different, New Naim Technology, Naim Active Technology is not dead!

Snaxo vs Exakt

Interesting days ahead, finally!

NDS/282/Snaxo/2 × 250DR/ 707

Vs

Linn Exakt/ 707

Wow!!!! Its about time!

Somebody, Call Mr. Richard Dane!

T-707 with Naim 500 series and SNAXO (Chester Show 2017)

Allante93!

Interesting and exciting times indeed. I'm going to be heading up to Cymbiosis soon. Anyone want a lift?

I could be tempted  

Chris Dolan posted:

I could be tempted  

Me too, but as the invitation is 'up' to Cymbiosis, Im guessing that's not from my direction where they are distinctly 'down'

If comparing active electronics driving 707s, it may be a while. At the moment there is only one SNAXO and there are no Exakt filters (which will be written soonish).

My understanding is that it'll be around a June-time.

I am assuming the SNAXO will be designed for the 808, 707 and 606 (?). Does anyone know if the new SNAXO will be available for the S20a?

Chris Dolan posted:

I could be tempted  

I'll keep you posted...

Not sure about the SNAXO for the S20a, Nigel. Would seem logical wouldn't it.

Hopefully Kudos dealers will be queuing up for demo SNAXOs. Just think how many more amps and lengths of SuperLumina they will be able to sell for Naim.

sunbeamgls posted:

Hopefully Kudos dealers will be queuing up for demo SNAXOs. Just think how many more amps and lengths of SuperLumina they will be able to sell for Naim.

Sales of SNAXOs will explode by 100%, from 1 per year to 2! 

jfritzen posted:

sunbeamgls posted:

Hopefully Kudos dealers will be queuing up for demo SNAXOs. Just think how many more amps and lengths of SuperLumina they will be able to sell for Naim.

Sales of SNAXOs will explode by 100%, from 1 per year to 2! 

He he!

This is only because no one has heard them.

sunbeamgls posted:

jfritzen posted:

sunbeamgls posted:

Hopefully Kudos dealers will be queuing up for demo SNAXOs. Just think how many more amps and lengths of SuperLumina they will be able to sell for Naim.

Sales of SNAXOs will explode by 100%, from 1 per year to 2! 

He he!

This is only because no one has heard them.

Indeed, I doubt that many dealers are prepared to demonstrate an active system. The 'S' in SNAXO apparently stands for "secret".

jfritzen posted:

Indeed, I doubt that many dealers are prepared to demonstrate an active system. The 'S' in SNAXO apparently stands for "secret".

Wrong Jfritzen. IF Naim are now finally supplying a correctly configured SNAXO now, this is great news for everyone, not least for Naim who WILL sell more amplification as a result of this decision. It WILL be on demo.

KR

Peter

I assume we're talking "Floaty" SNAXO here? I'm sure you're right Peter, it'll create many extra sales for Naim amplifiers (and cables!). you really can't beat a good active system.

Of course, Naim will then go on & supply "Floaties" for us with legacy Naim speakers.