Finally, after about a year of trying to get this to happen, I had a chance to listen to Kudos Super 20a in my system last weekend. Its a revelation of what these speakers are actually capable of.
Once we had a very satisfactory sounding system following quite a lot of set-up, we cracked on with listening to some tracks. Along for the ride, friend R has been listening to these speakers for around 3 years now and has been through a good few system upgrades during that time, so he's very familiar with their capabilities. It turns out, whilst they might be familiar, they haven't really reached their full potential in the passive system. What we heard in about 90 minutes of listening in the active system was a revelation. These speakers, whilst not carrying the same weight and authority as the PMC 20.26s (which have a somewhat larger visual and physical presence in the room), they're no longer out of their depth in my room. They go astoundingly deep from such a small box, with plenty of drive and give a bass line that, had we not already heard the PMCs, would be thought of as very good indeed - add in their relatively small dimensions and that makes them quite remarkable in this area. Tunes that needed to boogie along did so, attack is good as is the timing of the tune.
What about detail? Well, its astounding - these speakers really can resolve tiny tiny details that is beyond the capabilities of the PMCs and significantly beyond how they sound at home in the passive system. Both acoustic guitar tracks (Lofgren and Chris Jones) deliver string sounds that are crisp, clear and easy to pick out - delivering initial attack in spades and long long decays into the background. Spitty anger in Mary Gauthier's voice make you feel a bit uncomfortable and pleased that you're not the subject of her aggression. Vocals are superb - a good bit more texture, inflexion and intent than with the PMCs. Imaging is spot on too - rock solid, easy to place, 3 dimensional and a little unsettling on those tracks (such as Ficci) that use processing to give a wrap-around effect in the room.
Is there a downside? Well, its difficult to find anything to fault but I would prefer a little more subtlety in treble leading edges - R found it just to his taste, for me its still a bit sharp.
But here's the thing - throughout, we could both follow tunes and feet were tapping - and I mean throughout. On top of that, R kept giving little involuntary smiles and shaking his head in disbelief. These speakers are very much more capable than either of us really knew and active amplification has brought that out from under the covers of passive operation. Let's hope there'll be a SNAXO soon to at least bring some of this benefit (or possibly more of course).
I'll leave it with some of R's words - stunning, outstanding, and several more that I won't repeat in a public forum.
Posted on: 05 April 2017 by Allante93
Wow, we are on the same page!
Just guessing:
808 30K ~ 3 way
707 20K ~ 2.5 way
S 20's 9K ~ 2 way
Different crossover points!
But here's the strange part!
Kudos & Naim before Focal & Naim!
Wow!
Allante93!
Posted on: 05 April 2017 by jon h
Lets not get too overexcited.
There has been no committment by Naim to make this, as far as I can see. The volumes required are not going to be small - at the very least they will be double digits and a large one of those, possibly even treble.
And it is a significant cost upgrade to a system -- a snaxo plus PSU (preferably supercapDR) plus another two stereo power amps. This is not the sort of thing that is going to fly off the shelves at John Lewis
Posted on: 05 April 2017 by tonym
I assume we're talking "Floaty" SNAXO here? I'm sure you're right Peter, it'll create many extra sales for Naim amplifiers (and cables!). you really can't beat a good active system.
Of course, Naim will then go on & supply "Floaties" for us with legacy Naim speakers.
Standard SNAXO - not "floaty".
Phil
On the face of it, given the opening up of a whole new market with much potential for new SNAXO sales, this seems rather a strange decision Phil.
Not strange at all -- I am assuming that its a 3 way snaxo? floaty snaxo's are 2 way only.
The Kudos Super 20as are two-way.
I can't see anyone getting overexcited. Nevertheless in terms of improvements to a hi-fi system, going active's up there with the best things you can do. Many of us learned this when Naim offered complete active systems, and once you've lived with a good active setup for a while, passive doesn't really cut the mustard; and nothing I've seen or heard recently challenges this to my old ears. The fact that the likes of Kudos recognise the benefits of active should be applauded and it'd be a shame if Naim didn't pursue the opportunities presented.
Posted on: 05 April 2017 by sunbeamgls
808 is 2.5 way (so will need 3-way SNAXO unless the 0.5 is entirely down to natural roll-off of the drivers - certainly at Indulgence there were 3x Devialets at work)
707, 606, S20a and S10a are 2 way.
For more recent arrivals to Naim, can someone explain floaty vs non-floaty SNAXO please?
Posted on: 05 April 2017 by jon h
I understand that on the Kudos speakers you can use the 3 way snaxo on the 2 way and 3 way speakers, because the "midrange" section has no lower frequency filtering, other than normal acoustic/mechanical roll-off. So on a 3 way you connect to the treble and midrange outputs, and on a 3 way you use all three.
Posted on: 05 April 2017 by Allante93
You are correct sunbeamgls, but guessing again, I would imagine one floats, whilst the other doesn't! LOL!!!!
Probably a suspension thing!
But I'm sure someone will inform us.
Thanks sunbeamgls!
Posted on: 05 April 2017 by Allante93
What about the Floaty Jon?
BTW, that was a quick reply!
The Naim Forum, entertaining as well as informative.
Thanks Jon!
Dibbles & Briks !
Posted on: 05 April 2017 by Foot tapper
In traditional SNAXO crossovers, the main circuit board (PCB) is mounted firmly on to the inner tray of the case via screws and spacers.
In the BMR SNAXO (aka the floaty SNAXO), as developed for the active Ovator 800 and 600 speakers, the PCB is mounted on a heavy brass plate, in the same way the the PCB is mounted in the Naim Superline phono stage. The brass plate is then mounted in the case on suspension springs. Hence, the floaty SNAXO is so called because the PCB does indeed float inside the outer case on its own suspension.
Hope this helps, FT
Posted on: 05 April 2017 by Allante93
I remember many years ago when name was debuting its reference CD player, back in 2007. What Pre Amp did they choose, the middle of the road 282, What amps did they choose, 3 Classis 250s. The Snaxo 362 had the task of sending the signals to the true 3 way Classic DBLs!
Well, I'll say no more Google it up. Of course, I'm an active fan, remember it's really all about the speakers phase distortion.
Over and out!
Allante93!
