No responses so far...

Interesting one this: Ethernet is electrically balanced, so, in theory isolators shouldn't make much of a difference (they reduce LF CM interference), but ferrites might (they reduce HF CM interference).

.......  interesting indeed,  & why I posted the question.    I'm getting together with 2 or 3 audio nerdish next week & we will be trying some variants.  Collectively we have the AR RLI-1, one I don't know & 2 different medical/industrial types.  I'm hoping this thread might open up my already closed mind before we get together.   

It would be interesting to hear them in comparison to linear power supplied fiber media convertors as well. 

charlesphoto posted:

It would be interesting to hear them in comparison to linear power supplied fiber media convertors as well. 

i am interested too, i have optical bridge which do the same but don't know if giso or etalon isolator can do better. Here in France, the etalon isolator from Hungary have a solid reputation.

I agree Charles,  but I need to stay focused on the passive devices for the moment.    I will investigate the Etalon device on www,  but its not on the test list for next Wednesday.   

This nerd is looking forward to your findings, Mike. 

NERD FEST!    

on naim french forum( synthèse haute fidélité), they found this etalon isolator better than optical bridge. But with nds and audioquest diamond ethernet ( like my system), they found that this isolator is limiting the dynamics, so not so good when someone has high end ethernet cables as audioquest diamond( which have already filters).

With mid-priced streamers and ethernet cables, they all found this etalon isolator giving all the best results. ( some had even uptone ps for their nas).

giso had not so good results.  Acoustic revive isolator seem to be liked by devialet users...

i just tried again to compare:  switch-optical bridge-audioquest diamond-nds.    vs.  same without optical bridge:   i prefer the first, more dimensionality, more open and sweet, not found less dynamic.  Without the bridge, the sound is more focused, which can give the impression of better dynamics, but not. It is like close the direction of loudspeakers....

I'm using the Acoustic Revive RLI-1 since several years now, and it works. In fact when I tried adding the optical bridge after the Paul Pang switch (with ifi)  and before the RLI-1 the effect was not too great... i.e. didn't hear much of a difference, in fact I've taken it off.

Keler Pierre posted:

on naim french forum( synthèse haute fidélité), they found this etalon isolator better than optical bridge. But with nds and audioquest diamond ethernet ( like my system), they found that this isolator is limiting the dynamics, so not so good when someone has high end ethernet cables as audioquest diamond( which have already filters).

With mid-priced streamers and ethernet cables, they all found this etalon isolator giving all the best results. ( some had even uptone ps for their nas).

giso had not so good results.  Acoustic revive isolator seem to be liked by devialet users...

Hi, just to add a little bit to Pierre post , since i was one of the two people doing those tests on this fine nds/555dr/252/scdr/300/proac d30r system.

The etalon isolator was not limiting the dynamics, but somehow was removing some HF details within some of the tracks we listened that day. Probably the result of a different loading
It was quite subtle, you had to concentrate quite a bit to hear it , we felt that the nds ( helped by an audioquest diamond ethernet) was good enough to not turn those HF details, into something harsh , and did not need that help. Music was very enjoyable without the isolator

I should also say, that the nds setup is featuring an uptone audio js2. This wonderful LPSU , powering switch and nas, is removing lots of noise

sbilotta posted:

I'm using the Acoustic Revive RLI-1 since several years now, and it works. In fact when I tried adding the optical bridge after the Paul Pang switch (with ifi)  and before the RLI-1 the effect was not too great... i.e. didn't hear much of a difference, in fact I've taken it off.

 

an optical bridge with the acoustic revive isolator was too much and not good so. The rl1 without audioquest diamond is better than the optical bridge but with the diamond, it is also too much and the sound is less dynamic.  But i have the optical bridge with audioquest diamond, and for me the combination is good.

Stringerbell posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

on naim french forum( synthèse haute fidélité), they found this etalon isolator better than optical bridge. But with nds and audioquest diamond ethernet ( like my system), they found that this isolator is limiting the dynamics, so not so good when someone has high end ethernet cables as audioquest diamond( which have already filters).

With mid-priced streamers and ethernet cables, they all found this etalon isolator giving all the best results. ( some had even uptone ps for their nas).

giso had not so good results.  Acoustic revive isolator seem to be liked by devialet users...

Hi, just to add a little bit to Pierre post , since i was one of the two people doing those tests on this fine nds/555dr/252/scdr/300/proac d30r system.

The etalon isolator was not limiting the dynamics, but somehow was removing some HF details within some of the tracks we listened that day. Probably the result of a different loading
It was quite subtle, you had to concentrate quite a bit to hear it , we felt that the nds ( helped by an audioquest diamond ethernet) was good enough to not turn those HF details, into something harsh , and did not need that help. Music was very enjoyable without the isolator

I should also say, that the nds setup is featuring an uptone audio js2. This wonderful LPSU , powering switch and nas, is removing lots of noise

I have a tp ps on my unitserve, so i think it must be similar.  I understood that "la feuille ", a member with audioquest diamond and nds, found that adding the isolator had an impact on dynamics: the sound with diamond and etalon was less dynamic.  I read today all your topic on synthèse haute fidélité forum, but perhaps i did not understood the same.

I have audioquest diamond and optical bridge, and for me it sounds better than diamond alone. But i know it is subjective...

Stringerbell posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

on naim french forum( synthèse haute fidélité), they found this etalon isolator better than optical bridge. But with nds and audioquest diamond ethernet ( like my system), they found that this isolator is limiting the dynamics, so not so good when someone has high end ethernet cables as audioquest diamond( which have already filters).

With mid-priced streamers and ethernet cables, they all found this etalon isolator giving all the best results. ( some had even uptone ps for their nas).

giso had not so good results.  Acoustic revive isolator seem to be liked by devialet users...

Hi, just to add a little bit to Pierre post , since i was one of the two people doing those tests on this fine nds/555dr/252/scdr/300/proac d30r system.

The etalon isolator was not limiting the dynamics, but somehow was removing some HF details within some of the tracks we listened that day. Probably the result of a different loading
It was quite subtle, you had to concentrate quite a bit to hear it , we felt that the nds ( helped by an audioquest diamond ethernet) was good enough to not turn those HF details, into something harsh , and did not need that help. Music was very enjoyable without the isolator

I should also say, that the nds setup is featuring an uptone audio js2. This wonderful LPSU , powering switch and nas, is removing lots of noise

 

Keler Pierre posted:

Stringerbell posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

on naim french forum( synthèse haute fidélité), they found this etalon isolator better than optical bridge. But with nds and audioquest diamond ethernet ( like my system), they found that this isolator is limiting the dynamics, so not so good when someone has high end ethernet cables as audioquest diamond( which have already filters).

With mid-priced streamers and ethernet cables, they all found this etalon isolator giving all the best results. ( some had even uptone ps for their nas).

giso had not so good results.  Acoustic revive isolator seem to be liked by devialet users...

Hi, just to add a little bit to Pierre post , since i was one of the two people doing those tests on this fine nds/555dr/252/scdr/300/proac d30r system.

The etalon isolator was not limiting the dynamics, but somehow was removing some HF details within some of the tracks we listened that day. Probably the result of a different loading
It was quite subtle, you had to concentrate quite a bit to hear it , we felt that the nds ( helped by an audioquest diamond ethernet) was good enough to not turn those HF details, into something harsh , and did not need that help. Music was very enjoyable without the isolator

I should also say, that the nds setup is featuring an uptone audio js2. This wonderful LPSU , powering switch and nas, is removing lots of noise

I have a tp ps on my unitserve, so i think it must be similar.  I understood that "la feuille ", a member with audioquest diamond and nds, found that adding the isolator had an impact on dynamics: the sound with diamond and etalon was less dynamic.  I read today all your topic on synthèse haute fidélité forum, but perhaps i did not understood the same.

I have audioquest diamond and optical bridge, and for me it sounds better than diamond alone. But i know it is subjective...

my english is not good enough to translate " réduire la bande passante" et " lisser" when you compared nds/ audioquest diamond/ etalon vs the same without etalon. I translated in english by less dynamic, but perhaps it is better to say "attenuated high frequencies ", more concentrated in the medium?   

I read that for yourself you preferred the etalon isolator, but you had at that moment audioquest vodka and nds xs, if i am right.

Just a question: do you think it is better to put the router and switch in a main conditioner like isotek sirius or put a linear ps on the router and switch ( like mcru for about 250 pound). I am not talking of uptone audio js2, which is far more expensive...  The goal for me is to clean the router ( sfr box).  ?   thanks and sorry for my approximative translation in english ( and maybe understanding) of your comments in the french forum.

Whoa there Keler Pierre,    its all very interesting but you have all this optical bridge & linear PSU stuff posted over a few other threads.   PLEASE can you keep to the thread subject - passive ethernet isolators.         

Mike-B posted:

Its been a while since this subject was discussed,  but with the rise of various forms & claimed SQ benefits of ethernet isolation;  what's the latest opinions from users of the non-powered passive devices intended for the audio market such as Giso DS & GB, Acoustic Revive RLI-1, SOtM iSO-CAT6, etc.,   plus any of the medical grade isolators.  

Hi Mike I made a comment on these another thread. My view is passive isolatotrs are probably best avoided. In my experience the use of them (Acoustic Revive) has deteriorated the overall sound performance of the connected streamer. I also experience link establishment protocol issues between certain devices when using a passive isolator.

I assume this is because passive isolator are interfering with transmission line impedance and properties of regular twisted pair possibly causing high levels of reflections and signal loss.

I know 'professional' isolators are designed for safety reasons, as opposed to common mode noise rejection,  for the medical business and others, and increase the normal Ethernet Galvanic isolation of 1500 volts ac to several times that.

In my opinion a good Ethernet enabled device shouldn't need much common mode filtering, as it should already contain such filters within its physical interface. TI have a good engineering white paper on building designs catering for this sort of rejection.

You kinda sum up my own opinion Simon;  I've tried the A.R. & I have a Baaske (medical 5kV) in my bitsbox.  Problem is I'm helping out with a group of mates who want to test out & hear for themselves.  I'm keen to go into this 'test' with a more open mind & maybe this thread will expand my knowledge on what is around the marketplace.

Likewise, those were my thoughts.

I can however see the advantage of fitting a ferrite to act as a CM filter at frequencies that could cross the internal isolation (by capacitative or inductive coupling) so reducing the CMRR at VHF and UHF.

here is the inside of the etalon lan isolator. This device was the FOTM here in France one year ago (and is still "heavily" used) . It is considered as superior
to the giso and acoustic revive equivalents. Some say that the sotm equivalent may be the better product right now

Thanks for that Stringerbell,  its interesting for me on a number of points.  The brand is unknown apart from (it seems) France & I wonder why.  Looking at the circuit board & the design layout I wonder why they made the parallel pair tracks so long.  I guess the design is intended to give wide separation of the individual pairs & goes some way to keep NEXT as low as possible.    

The SOtM iSO-CAT6 is so much smaller,  but I have no view of the circuit layout ..........  

i use GISO GB and definitely made improvement for me, suspect largely down to noise on my network though

Acoustic Revive RLI-1. Couldn't get one for demo so bought it anyway. It produced a dynamically damped, "sat on" presentation which was hard to live with and proved impossible to get used to. After a month (involving ten day stretches at various locations in the network) it came out and my music soared back to magical realism in an instant. Sold it on for no loss after postage. This is what puts me off Melco. Well, that and the propitiatory locking down of something which shouldn't be. But one should never say never. One day my ears will get hold of one.

sorry to dilute this learned banter, but whats an ethernet isolator? why is it needed and what does it do?

enjoy

ken

Hi, for our applications it's not needed. The main use of isolators is to increase Galvanic isolation to above 1500 volts as used for safety in the medical world. Here in consumer land the term has been adopted for inserting a common mode filter in the Ethernet segment. This can break noise passing along the cables from poorly designed Ethernet equipment, however such a passive insertion will almost certainly break the Ethernet specifications and may well cause other actual network related issues which is what I observed

ken c posted:

sorry to dilute this learned banter, but whats an ethernet isolator? why is it needed and what does it do?

enjoy

ken

a lot of people use them and are very satisfied. You put this box between switch and your streamer. There are etalon isolator, acoustic revive lan isolator, sotm... The goal is to purify the ethernet current before your streamer.  But if you have high end ethernet cables like audioquest diamond, it seems not to be so efficient.... Before ndx and nds, some find that dynamics are a bit decreased, but some find not.   If you read this topic from the beginning, you will find some users that have this lan isolators.  For myself i use an optical bridge, which do the same.   The best is perhaps to try by yourself and send it back if you are not satisfied.