Bass - how much is too much?

Tapestries - never thought of that, what a good idea.

Quite a few commercial absorbers can be produced with the fabric covering printed with any picture of your choice, in appearance the only difference from a conventional canvas type print being a deeper frame, often 2, 4 or 6 inches depending on how low in the spectrum absorbance is needed. DIY could potentially do the same, if a printer can be found using suitable fabric.

REW and Linn Space Optimisation seem to involve technology for room correction through phase adjustment. Linn DS systems provide tweaks (phase adjustments through the frequency spectrum aimed at making sure the sound heard reflects the recording) in the electronics and the speakers so that the room can be furnished as desired and the HiFi placed to fit.

It seems to me that not enough mention is made of the phase shifts that crossover networks may introduce.  Many aspects of speaker design can have big effect on sound, yet a lot of what is written places the blame on the room and placement. Perhaps the room takes the blame when really it just exacerbates a problem in the speaker.

Focal Sopra include Optimum Phase Crossover and the whole design is optimised to give the best possible results for any kind of music at its price. I listened to speakers at my dealer in a very wide and short room with a high ceiling. Not very ideal, but the Sopras sounded good at the dealers and good at home in a larger version of Stuart's room with similar irregularities compared with other speakers. The Utopia speakers provide room adjustment at a price.

Best advice is to have a dealer who will give an extended home demo so one can listen to a full range of music. I think money spent on speakers is a good long term investment. I sometimes think that a lot of effort goes into persuading us to spend lots of money on other things instead.

Filipe posted:

REW and Linn Space Optimisation seem to involve technology for room correction through phase adjustment. Linn DS systems provide tweaks (phase adjustments through the frequency spectrum aimed at making sure the sound heard reflects the recording) in the electronics and the speakers so that the room can be furnished as desired and the HiFi placed to fit.

It seems to me that not enough mention is made of the phase shifts that crossover networks may introduce.  Many aspects of speaker design can have big effect on sound, yet a lot of what is written places the blame on the room and placement. Perhaps the room takes the blame when really it just exacerbates a problem in the speaker.

Focal Sopra include Optimum Phase Crossover and the whole design is optimised to give the best possible results for any kind of music at its price. I listened to speakers at my dealer in a very wide and short room with a high ceiling. Not very ideal, but the Sopras sounded good at the dealers and good at home in a larger version of Stuart's room with similar irregularities compared with other speakers. The Utopia speakers provide room adjustment at a price.

Best advice is to have a dealer who will give an extended home demo so one can listen to a full range of music. I think money spent on speakers is a good long term investment. I sometimes think that a lot of effort goes into persuading us to spend lots of money on other things instead.

The use of REW in this question is as a measuring tool, to interrogate and see what is happening in the room, and assess the effect of changing things, including speaker and listening positions, and can be used to identify problems and thereby assist determining solutions. The same can be achieved by ear, but the software makes it so much easier, as well as more certain, and I certainly found it very useful sorting out my room, ending up completely rearranging things from the original planned layout, and it would have taken me an awful lot longer to get there without it, if indeed I were to persevere. For anyone with a computer the only costs are a relatively inexpensive measuring microphone and a cheap cable.

As for phase effects, indeed some speakers are better than others, and when combined with questions of placement the challenge of primary fullrange speakers vs satellites and sub(s) becomes an interesting subject, one I've never explored.

interestingly, with regard to your observation about liking at your dealer and at home, my first IMFs I loved at the dealer, and then at home, with no major placement issues, and similarly in 6 different living rooms thereafter. Similarly my second IMFs at the original seller's home then at home and 4 subsequent rooms, with just the last one causing problems and a lot of effort to determine placement (resolved with help of REW so it sounded great again). My present PMCs sounded great at the seller's home and equally so at my home with just a minor repositioning compared to the last IMFs, though having REW I simply used that to fine tune. This present room of mine is the only problem I have had, undoubtedly due to it being an odd shape.

I agree with your observation about the value of decent speakers as an investment because they contribute most to the character of the sound - as long as they sound good with whatever amp you use even if less than an ideal driver.

I'm not sure if you still have the MB1 but would be curious as to how you had them positioned? They like to be spread wide. 7'-11' closer to 11' is better. Toe in with tweeters pointed toward shoulders. They also seem best sitting closer to them. 8'-10'. I see in the pic they are on their recommended stands. I have my 2.5 pulled out around 3' from the back wall. That seems to help with tightening up the bass a bit with me however the mb1 are front ported. Also Raidho/Scansonic don't recommend a lot if any acoustic treatments. 

Thanks for the replies 

I have taken a look at Rew software looks like all I need is a USB mic and rca leads to connect from headphone socket to pre amp. Interpreting results might be a bit of a challenge but your explanation simplifies things Huge/IB - thanks. Just need to find a free day to do some testing. 

The mb1s have been returned but I did play around with positioning and as good as they are they weren't quite to my taste. 

Thanks for all the advice on speaker positioning. They have taken an interesting journey around the room (luckily I've got 7.5m naca5). I still feel that either side of the fireplace, with variable distance apart gives the best overall balance. I have wondered if TQB speaker cable might make a subtle reduction in bass output as some have mentioned in other posts. 

I am going g to arrange to listen to Atc 11 and 19 and home demo pmc 25 standmount range. My only concern with the atc is, will they make a percentage of my music unlistenable as in too bright which was part of the original problem with the motive 2s. The sx1's treble is much better imo. I definitely haven't ruled them out yet but I need to try alternatives as getting the speakers to match the room and layout will pave the way for easier amp upgrades.