Which path to choose

Well, option 1 leaves you with 5 boxes of differing heights and widths, requiring 4 power cables (oh, and a PC as well, until you decide to scrap that anyway and go down the ND5 XS/NDX route...). Option 2 leaves you with three equal sized boxes requiring (I think, assuming the XPS powers the 272 completely) 2 power cables. Does that matter?

There's less scope for upgraditis with option 2, but won't you be forever hankering after a 250DR, which seems to be the natural partner among owners here on the forum?

The Dac V1 is a pre as well. So you can ignore the 202 unless you have other analogue sources too like a TT.

You would have PC >> Dac V1 >> Nap Whatever or temp XS >> Loudspeakers.

Very capable setup.

No harm in going to listen to a few setups at your dealer. At least this will allow you to find the final solution you want which will allow you to plan appropriately to get there in the most cost effective way.  

Why dac v1 one as a DAC?  New hugo2 is weeks away

Ardbeg10y posted:

The Dac V1 is a pre as well. So you can ignore the 202 unless you have other analogue sources too like a TT.

You would have PC >> Dac V1 >> Nap Whatever or temp XS >> Loudspeakers.

Very capable setup.

Also my initial thought. I just imagined that the 202 would bring a great improvement compared to using the v1 as pre. And also maybe a bigger improvement than upgrading to a more powerful NAP.

I don't have other analogue sources - as I really like the streaming. 

Is it completely dumb to have a 202 (or higher) when using a V1 as source in fixed output mode?

Bakke posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

The Dac V1 is a pre as well. So you can ignore the 202 unless you have other analogue sources too like a TT.

You would have PC >> Dac V1 >> Nap Whatever or temp XS >> Loudspeakers.

Very capable setup.

 

I don't have other analogue sources - as I really like the streaming.  

Why not look at a Superuniti or even one of the new Uniti series (if they ever get them finished) ?

Maybe not a bad idea. The wife would probably also find I easier to accept a 1-box setup;-)

But let's see if they ever get them finished 

Hi. I'd take option 2 tbh, it's a very clean setup. I'm running 172 xs and nap 200. Because (or thanks to) of a recent din cable change, I went to my dealer to audition the 272. To my ears it sounds beautiful, and preferred it with nap 200 instead of 250dr (although with the 250 it does sound more hi-fi-ish). Also, I don't think there's any point in getting a DR nap with the 272, so you could easily run a used or ex-dem nap 200 with it. And, if upgraditis doesn't bite hard, you can live without the XPS. Also, if you get them together (272 + nondr 200), maybe you can trade the xs in for the nap - or just sell it to fund the nap. 

rainsoothe posted:

Hi. I'd take option 2 tbh, it's a very clean setup. I'm running 172 xs and nap 200. Because (or thanks to) of a recent din cable change, I went to my dealer to audition the 272. To my ears it sounds beautiful, and preferred it with nap 200 instead of 250dr (although with the 250 it does sound more hi-fi-ish). Also, I don't think there's any point in getting a DR nap with the 272, so you could easily run a used or ex-dem nap 200 with it. And, if upgraditis doesn't bite hard, you can live without the XPS. Also, if you get them together (272 + nondr 200), maybe you can trade the xs in for the nap - or just sell it to fund the nap. 

Maybe no point in getting a 200DR, as the DR module is then unused. Not so with a 250DR, though. 

Interesting that you preferred the 200 to the 250DR, though. I think most would say that the 250DR is a big upgrade on the 200....although personally, I think I would add an XPS first.

Aha - the DR on the 200 is unused because it is used in the pre power circuitry. But why isn't it so in the 250DR? 

Bakke posted:

Aha - the DR on the 200 is unused because it is used in the pre power circuitry. But why isn't it so in the 250DR? 

The 152 and 200 (and many older Naim power amps) provide DC power to the preamp. The 250 does not do this, so you need an external PSU such as a Hicap. Therefore the 200DR isn't an upgrade on the old 200 if you use it with a 272, whereas the 250DR is, subjectively, an upgrade on an older 250 regardless of the preamp used.

ChrisSU posted:

Bakke posted:

Aha - the DR on the 200 is unused because it is used in the pre power circuitry. But why isn't it so in the 250DR? 

The 152 and 200 (and many older Naim power amps) provide DC power to the preamp. The 250 does not do this, so you need an external PSU such as a Hicap. Therefore the 200DR isn't an upgrade on the old 200 if you use it with a 272, whereas the 250DR is, subjectively, an upgrade on an older 250 regardless of the preamp used.

Ah okay. Thanks for the explanation :-)

I will try and demo the 272 with my Naim as power. I like the idea of not having 5 boxes of different sizes. 

My main concern with the 272 is that whenever the streamer part gets outdated - then it's expensive to update. At least compared to having every component only handling one task. Is it wrong to have that concern?

You have many possibilities. Do you want to keep upgrading, or do you aim for a quick , good and not too pricy solution. If the latter, the Dac V1 into a poweramp is a good one. If you want to have a full blown system ultimately being a serious distance better than the Dac V1, I would fling every penny in a streaming preamp like the N272. This will be the biggest performance improvement.

However, why not buy a second hand Naim Dac? Feed it with an optical cable from your pc. To be able to stream, you can add a raspberry pi or run some software on the PC to enable it for streaming.

Many possibilities ...

Bakke posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Bakke posted:

Aha - the DR on the 200 is unused because it is used in the pre power circuitry. But why isn't it so in the 250DR? 

The 152 and 200 (and many older Naim power amps) provide DC power to the preamp. The 250 does not do this, so you need an external PSU such as a Hicap. Therefore the 200DR isn't an upgrade on the old 200 if you use it with a 272, whereas the 250DR is, subjectively, an upgrade on an older 250 regardless of the preamp used.

Ah okay. Thanks for the explanation :-)

I will try and demo the 272 with my Naim as power. I like the idea of not having 5 boxes of different sizes. 

My main concern with the 272 is that whenever the streamer part gets outdated - then it's expensive to update. At least compared to having every component only handling one task. Is it wrong to have that concern?

With the new Uniti players soon to arrive, it does seem inevitable that the redesigned streaming platform they will use is going to find its way into replacement models further up the ladder. How long do you want to wait, to find out if these new streamers will be that much better, and still be affordable, and look nice on your rack, etc. etc? Always a tricky one, but when you can afford the upgrade, and you're still holding back a year later just in case the next big thing comes along......only to find that it's a new analogue preamp    

[@mention:36201736949470193] indeed, thanks for the correction.  Also, my preference was in THAT room, with THOSE speakers and with THOSE specific songs I tried. Thing is I'm not in the "everything must be as neutral as possible camp", I like some sort of coloration to the stuff (which is why I prefered, agan, in MY system, the NACA5 to the Tellurium Q Black, although I can objectively say the TQB is better then the Naim cable).

[@mention:69426746403283758] I used to think the same, but, just like Chrissu has pointed out, with digital stuff changing so fast all the time, one would indeed end up waiting forever. I mean if it sounds good, just get it and enjoy it. And, if I understand it right, most of the changes (like MQA for example) can be solved with firmware updates, as long as the DAC chip is compatible. I, for one, like owning the physical format of the stuff I like and rip everything to FLAC or WAV anyway, and CD quality is more then enough for me. Of course, my 172 xs can play hi-res (except for DSD). The 272 does DSD 64, but I don't think the file format in itself is more important then the way a pre-amp or whatever part of your system can portray the music. And I think the 272 would be something I could live with for a very, very long time.

An alterrnative to the computer might be the Uniti Core as a combined store/renderer, feeding a DAC direct (once it is sorted out - teething problems at the moment. If not in a hurry it might be worth hanging on for a few months to see how it pans out - much commentbon this forum). Similar options in this regard include Melco (I have heard the N1A and found it good), Innuos Zenith (which I haven't heard) and dedicated headless MacMini running Audirvana (which I use, and with Hugo I found sounded better than ND5XS either into Hugo or on its own with XP5XS). Info to be found on all of these by searching this forum. A combined store/renderer has the distinct advantage of avoiding any network problems, or need to fuss with network cables, all of which exercise some people quite a lot.

If you're up for some playing around, search out the Raspberry Pi and microRendu threads (latter oddly entitled The Hugo of Streaming).

Emre posted:

Why dac v1 one as a DAC?  New hugo2 is weeks away

Or even the very low cost Mojo, which I haven't heard but others say is is as good as, or very very nearly, the Hugo mk1 which is wonderful. But you are likely to need an isolator between the computer and any DAC unless the DAC itself provides it (Mojo & Hugo 1 don't). And as this suggests, there are other DACs, particularly from the Chord range, that even a good few Naim afficionados prefer over the Naim DACs - but you need to hear and compare to assess what sounds best to yourbown ears, for which my comments are ony suggestions to consider, as are others.

As others have suggested, best choice depends on any potential plans for future upgrades or whether this is it, at least for the forseeable future.

Before you get rid of the NUC, make sure you see you'd be happy with life without Roon. 

If you go the Naim streaming route you may well feel like you've traded in your top of the range smartphone for a Nokia. 

.sjb

I have the DAC V1 and it isn't great for the $.  The 272 isn't a huge step up in terms of $ and a better VFM. However, if you need a headphone amp the V1 is my favorite due to the handy remote control. Not quite up to my Hugo in SQ but better usability.