replacement for naim nait 5i-2

Better cd source first

B_LUND

thank you..

i find myself playing more and more vinyl these days and the CD750 is quite good as well.

I will try for a CD960 if i can..

but the amp question remains..

regards

From you shortlist, a 202/200 would be great, but if you get one within your budget, it's likely to be old enough to need a recap/service. So you would need to budget for that, and find a service agent who can do it. Also, it will show up the limitations of a weaker source more than a cheapr amp, and it will be more sensitive to setup, meaning that a decent rack to put it on, and quality interconnects, become increasingly important.

 If those issues sound like something you can address, get it and you will not be disappointed. Otherwise, sticking with a newer integrated amp is a much safer bet.

I miss the SN1 on the list. If you go for the SN1, there is no need to stretch your budget + it will outclass anything on your list.

Furthermore, if you get a pretty young one, there is no need for a recap in the coming 5 - 7 years.

A home demo of one of your amp options (if possible) might help identify whether a 'better' amp improves matters, or whether you need to focus on improving your source(s).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're listening to a circa 25-year-old DAC in your CDP? There is a plethora of options from the current millennium that should outperform it for little cost. Then you can donate your 750 to the local thrift shop and move on with your other considerations.

Exactly

Most people making the mistake buying new amp helps anything

It doesnt

Get the source fixed first, second and third, is that hard to understand ?

joerand

Circa 25 year old dac it may be - but i like the sound from it and i am looking for its big brother the CD960.

Moderns dacs - are a hit and miss for me.

I have plans for the CD750 - pack it up and retain as a standby player as i do not see myself using the computer route for music at all.

regards

Gavin B posted:

A home demo of one of your amp options (if possible) might help identify whether a 'better' amp improves matters, or whether you need to focus on improving your source(s).

gavinB

Thank you. Thats a good point you make.

But - the only option in Naim brand for home demo is the SN2 and i suspect that will really expose the source and everything else and send me into a loop with exit at infinity 

ChrisSU posted:

From you shortlist, a 202/200 would be great, but if you get one within your budget, it's likely to be old enough to need a recap/service. So you would need to budget for that, and find a service agent who can do it. Also, it will show up the limitations of a weaker source more than a cheapr amp, and it will be more sensitive to setup, meaning that a decent rack to put it on, and quality interconnects, become increasingly important.

 If those issues sound like something you can address, get it and you will not be disappointed. Otherwise, sticking with a newer integrated amp is a much safer bet.

Chris

Thank you for highlighting the obstacles along the road. Appreciate.

Newer integrated could have the same issues you mention ( except the recapping etc.. )

regards

A few of the old Philips cdp used the legendary Philips TDA 1541 dac chip, but the cd 750 doesn't. 

This chip is still used today in many very high end cdp.  

Although the cd 750 does have a digital output, so a SN1 could be an option as this has digital inputs which will give the Philips a new lease of life.

b_lund posted:

Exactly

Most people making the mistake buying new amp helps anything

It doesnt

Get the source fixed first, second and third, is that hard to understand ?

B_Lund

That implies - 50W is enough for the Merlin ??

That also implies - amps with better control section - will add less value than a source change.

Assume - that i changed my CDP to a CD960 ( i have beel looking on ebay for this ).... what would your recommendation be ??

and - i do run a SL1210 TT with a stock arm, a DL103 and a Lehmann Audio SE2 PWX phono stage.... is this a good enough source ??

I do see what you are pointing to and i hope you see where i am looking at.

Hi MPW, I had a similar dilemma and set off to replace my Myst tma3 amp (1987) which was fed by Marantz 6000 SE KI and Rega Planar 3 into Castle Yorks. I tried several amps including Naim 152/155 XS and they all made my system sound worse. By chance at my Naim dealer we tried the CD5 XS into my old amp and speakers and it was a revelation. I didn't end up with that as I ultimately expanded my search and chose to go streaming with ND5 XS into my old gear.

As a bonus I was able to use the optical out from my old CD player into the ND5 and achieve a much better CD SQ than previously. So I would agree with other posts to consider upgrading the source first even if this means just inserting a DAC between your existing CDP and amp as a trial.

I am not suggesting my old amp is better than the Naim ones I tried, but that they were too good for my source and disrupted synergy. I still ultimately intend to change my amp in time.

Best, Mike

Mike1960 posted:

Hi MPW, I had a similar dilemma and set off to replace my Myst tma3 amp (1987) which was fed by Marantz 6000 SE KI and Rega Planar 3 into Castle Yorks. I tried several amps including Naim 152/155 XS and they all made my system sound worse. By chance at my Naim dealer we tried the CD5 XS into my old amp and speakers and it was a revelation. I didn't end up with that as I ultimately expanded my search and chose to go streaming with ND5 XS into my old gear.

As a bonus I was able to use the optical out from my old CD player into the ND5 and achieve a much better CD SQ than previously. So I would agree with other posts to consider upgrading the source first even if this means just inserting a DAC between your existing CDP and amp as a trial.

I am not suggesting my old amp is better than the Naim ones I tried, but that they were too good for my source and disrupted synergy. I still ultimately intend to change my amp in time.

Best, Mike

MIke1960

Thank you for your kind response. Quite informative.

a. I do have an option of trying out a Metrum Octave NOS ( non USB - version 1 ) DAC if the seller allows a home trial. The other option is a Philips CD960 - which i have been lusting after for a while now.

b. At the same time i think its better to have the CD player with a good dac. If i add an external dac then again i will need a cable from the CDP to the external DAC and from the DAC to the amp. The chain will increase and will defeat the purpose of small compact chain.

Note : For 2 years i did have a Naim CD5XS - which i had to sadly sell - due to recurring technical issues and associated costs in repairing it.

Please comment

regards

If your lusting after a Philips cd960 because of that TDA 1541chip and associated sound there are plenty of other players out in the wild. Naims early cdp had this chip installed. Could be worth looking that up, For similar prices.

TOBYJUG posted:

If your lusting after a Philips cd960 because of that TDA 1541chip and associated sound there are plenty of other players out in the wild. Naims early cdp had this chip installed. Could be worth looking that up, For similar prices.

tobyjug

that... and the CDM 1 transport on the CD960

Hi. As one of the above posters said, you should have the first gen Supernait, as you upgrade both your amp and your cdp (with the Supernait's DAC) - if your cdp has a digital out (or you could get whatever cheap bluray player for cd spin duties). This option also keeps the interconnect and box count down. Other then that, of course nac202 + nap200 is the biggest upgrade. If you can, try to audition, as all those amps sound pretty different from one another.

SN1 is very hard to get here in India.

I wonder if many of you have heard the Philips CD750 and i can tell you its not something that is trashed easily. It can be bettered for sure but its a good player in itself ( atleast i like it )

I don't think you should limit yourselve based on what is available on the preloved market now. Are there options for you to travel and audition some amps?

certainly - i can travel and audition but the thing is - i will be listening to the setup and no to the amp alone.

Therefore there is no guarantee that unless i take my speakers with and source with me - i would like the amp in my home

regards

Well, if an SN1 pops up in your market, you are likely to get it under or close to GBP 1500. This gives you the option to continue using your Philips CDP, or use the internal Dac of the SN1. The SN1 Dac is so-so. OK for random listening, internet radio, Spotify, TV etc ... but I have a Naim AV2 and Dragonfly Black Dac as well and they are better. Once you get a SN1, you can always decide to add a Chord Mojo Dac or similar to the setup. I know, you dont fancy that, but the Dac is pretty small and can easily be hidden.

There are quite some recent testimonies on this forum about the SN1. Personally, I think it fits your picture best and maybe it pops up and a bit of patience is all you need now.

If you don't want multiple boxes and power supplies, the pre-power boxes from Naim are out.

FWIW I compared the older Rega Elicit Mk2 (now the Elicit-R Mk3) to a bare Naim Nait XS. The differences are marginal at best with the Elicit sounding a touch sweeter and lusher. If you want an appreciable (or different) experience, you need to take a larger leap if staying within Naim. Upgrading from your Nait 5i-2 to the Nait 5si may not give you much, or anything at all. If considering another Naim, you need the Nait XS as a minimum.

ryder. posted:

If you don't want multiple boxes and power supplies, the pre-power boxes from Naim are out.

An external PSU with a 202/200 is by no means essential in my books. Of course it sounds better with a Hicap - as ever, if you spend more money, you can get better results, but I think there are plenty of 2 box Naim amps out there making people happy. If the OP is trawling the used market, I wouldn't rule out a 152/155 either.

ChrisSU posted:

An external PSU with a 202/200 is by no means essential in my books. Of course it sounds better with a Hicap - as ever, if you spend more money, you can get better results, but I think there are plenty of 2 box Naim amps out there making people happy. If the OP is trawling the used market, I wouldn't rule out a 152/155 either.

Yes, i cannot disagree with that. It just happens that i read about the OP wanting to avoid multiple boxes if possible, implying that a one-box integrated is a better solution than a two-box preamp and power amp setup. Having listened to the Nait XS in my system, i would pick the 202/200 over it any time of the day. The funny thing is i haven't tried listening to the 202/200 bare as the power supply was always hooked up to the amps.

Reading this I get the OP has decided and looking for validation.  The replies are all in line with logic and current HiFi thinking, but I sense emotion here which comes across a bit as justifying why the guidance cannot be followed.  So rather than offer further advice along similar lines, may I come at this differently and suggest some reflection on what you are trying to achieve in music reproduction terms rather than equipment terms?