Recorders

Posted by: Richard Dane on 19 April 2017

Recorders.

No, not those wooden flute-like things that are used as instruments of torture on teachers and parents. This is a thread about recorders used in a hifi context; analogue tape, whether cassette, reel or cartridge; or digital, whether on tape, disc or digital file.

The inspiration for this thread was my recent trip down to Worthing to drop off my Nakamichi ZX-9 for a much needed service.  I was somewhat taken aback to learn that the turn around time is currently 15+ weeks.  It seems that audio tape in all forms is undergoing something of a rennaisance and Bowers & Wilkins Nakamichi service department has seen a big upswing in demand for their services. So it would seem that analogue tape recorders are making a bit of a comeback.  Or are they..?

With the Nak gone I've been dusting off some of my old cassette decks, renewing belts, pinch rollers etc.. and digging out old cassettes for some taping fun.  From the excellent Denon DR-M44HX and Aiwa AD-F770 still two of the best sounding decks outside of the Nakamichi stable, to some wonderful oldies like the monster Nakamichi 700, to one of the earliest cassette players, the Philips EL3302.  And I haven't even mentioned the R2Rs yet.. 

However, I find that while tape recording is fun, it's more of a diversion.  Fact is I do very little serious recording on the many tape machines I have.  Mostly they are used for playback - the reel to reel decks in particular. Most of my recording these days is done from analogue to digital and so I have contributed a fair bit to a few threads in recent months asking about transcribing cherished vinyl and the like to digital.  Keen to take computers out of the music room, this has coincided with my own testing of a number of stand alone digital recorders.

In the last month I have been testing a Marantz PMD661 MkII recorder and in many respects it is the best yet for the intended role of digital recorder within the main system. You'll recall I didn't really get on with the Korg MR-2, even with 24/192 and DSD, much preferring the sound quality from the Sony PCM-M10 and PCM-D50.  The M10 offers SQ that at 24bit 96kHz via the line inputs is within an ace of the D50 but in a smaller package, with amazing battery life, and for anyone needing a pocketable stealth recorder for recording in the field at very high quality, it's probably in a league of one.  However, the Marantz, while much bigger than the Sony, has proved itself to not only perform superbly at 24/96 but also it's much nicer to use in the system.  The first advantage it has is the display - it's a lovely OLED display that is easily read in any light. The SONYs are LCD and need backlighting to read properly, which is a real pain, particularly on the M10. There's also a supplemental LED record level display at the bottom of the Marantz recorder, just like tape decks of old. What's more, the Marantz has adjustable L+R record level, a proper quarter inch headphone jack, a proper RCA phono line out (although line in is only a 3.5mm jack if you need a single ended input), and a coaxial digital input.  With the latter it would have been nice to have an output too, as on the bigger PMD671, or perhaps a switch to allow either.  The Marantz has an air of a proper professional bit of kit - it even says so on the case!  The Sonys are, well, Sonys...  They embody what Sony seems to do best; lovely little jewels of miniature electronics, nicely built and superbly finished. But sat next to the Marantz they look a bit like toys.

It's early days and I need to process the 24/96 recordings and then play them back through the big DAC, but the Marantz may well be a keeper here.  It has definitely tempered my hankering for the Sony PCM-D100.  Do I really need 24/192 or DSD..??

Here are some pics;

Interestingly, the PMD661 isn't that much smaller than the first compact cassette recorder...

Posted on: 01 November 2017 by Innocent Bystander
Richard Dane posted:

If you wish for one of your threads to be re-opened then you can just ask.  Unless there's a specific reason why it's best left closed - i.e. it was closed for good reason other than just no replies after two months - there shouldn't be any problem.  I've done it for many members and their threads in the past.

Thanks for clarification, Richard - nice to know for the future.

Posted on: 01 November 2017 by DBS-Al

Some nice looking equipment there Richard, I may have mentioned before in another thread about the mint condition TEAC A-800 cassette deck I found in the loft of my ( now ) wife's house. It's on display in my "man cave" and I sometimes think it would be nice to have it serviced and get it up and running. Such a nice thing to look at with all the big toggle switches and VU meters.

Posted on: 01 November 2017 by jon h

I am incredibly fortunate to own the "ground zero" Nakamichi Dragon, on which all the IEC tape formulations were agreed. The very item. 

(the iec group (tech directors of Sony, BASF, TDK etc) met in the lounge of my old boss Angus McKenzie at his house in north finchley. Angus's Dragon was a little special and came direct from Nakamichi in japan. I was able to buy it from his estate when he died, and it recently was serviced by B&W, who somewhat wet themselves at getting their hands on The One after all these years. Ah... memories...)

I also have Angus's Studer/Revox cassette deck and his reference Studer/Revox FM tuner

Posted on: 01 November 2017 by Eoink
jon honeyball posted:

I am incredibly fortunate to own the "ground zero" Nakamichi Dragon, on which all the IEC tape formulations were agreed. The very item. 

(the iec group (tech directors of Sony, BASF, TDK etc) met in the lounge of my old boss Angus McKenzie at his house in north finchley. Angus's Dragon was a little special and came direct from Nakamichi in japan. I was able to buy it from his estate when he died, and it recently was serviced by B&W, who somewhat wet themselves at getting their hands on The One after all these years. Ah... memories...)

I also have Angus's Studer/Revox cassette deck and his reference Studer/Revox FM tuner

Wow!

Posted on: 02 November 2017 by Richard Dane

Jon, it was in the 1983 Cassette Deck digest edition of Hifi Choice where I first read Angus McKenzie's glowing review of both the ZX-9 and Dragon that I fell in love and knew I had to have one of them one day. At the time, all i could afford was a BX-2, which was a revelation compared to the Technics deck it replaced. Then, helped by a very strong pound and weak yen at the time, the BX-2 was joined by the new RX-202. The 202 lasted many years in spite of a number of repairs that were required to keep the flipping cassette mechanism in good working order (it used to get a case of the jitters).  My last new Nak deck purchase was a Cassette Deck 1.5, and that only went when the opportunity to buy a lovely ZX-9 came up.

Thanks for the story about Angus' Dragon.  Please post any pictures you may have.

Posted on: 02 November 2017 by Richard Dane
DBS-Al posted:

Some nice looking equipment there Richard, I may have mentioned before in another thread about the mint condition TEAC A-800 cassette deck I found in the loft of my ( now ) wife's house. It's on display in my "man cave" and I sometimes think it would be nice to have it serviced and get it up and running. Such a nice thing to look at with all the big toggle switches and VU meters.

A very handsome looking deck, the A-800.  One deck that has passed me by but I'd like to try out is the similar looking Teac C-1.

Posted on: 21 November 2017 by Richard Dane

This evening I removed the protective plastic that Bowers and Wilkins had wrapped around the ZX-9.  Paul had obviously given it a clean as it emerged looking like new. The service bill was rather more than usual - I'd had the works, including new caps, all rubber replaced, full recalibration etc.. - but the first test recording showed that it was money well spent. The ZX-9 is an incredible recorder.  It just transcends the medium - it sounds more like a really good  reel to reel deck.  I also use a BX-300, which is by any standards a superb cassette deck, but when compared to the ZX-9, you begin to hear its limitations.  And as smooth to operate as the BX-300 undoubtedly is against the competition, the ZX-9 is smoother still.

Which leaves me in a quandry.  I had originally thought I would have the ZX-9 serviced and then eventually let it go - values of top Naks like the ZX-9, Dragon etc..  have enjoyed a bit of a bump in recent years - but now it's back on the rack, and sounding so good, I'm not sure I can ever bear to part with it.  Damn.

Posted on: 21 November 2017 by Tabby cat

You sound like a man in cassette deck heaven tonight Richard well pleased for you.

I agree about your comments about the BX 300 E as I use one myself also a CR 7E which had a similar service to your ZX 9 three years ago.The BX 300 E has a much different voicing more warmer but in a very relaxing reel to reel way.My CR 2 E and CR 7E are great decks but don't have the magic of the BX300 E.

Out of interest how does the 1000 ZXL rate in the top Naks over the years ?

Happy listening and hang onto it......I would !

Posted on: 21 November 2017 by Richard Dane

TC, I'm told that the 1000ZXL is superb and is up there with the very best, but only after modification - essentially grafting on some ZX-9 improvements like the DD motor.  The 1000ZXL and ZX-9 share transport and heads but whereas the ZXL is aimed more at luxury, with lots of calibration automation, the ZX-9 is totally manual, albeit with indicators so you know when things are just right.  The earlier decks like the 1000ZXL also varied EQ along with level and bias.  This can be done on the ZX-9 but it's an internal adjustment - only level and bias can be adjusted from the outside. It's not such a drawback as with the more modern tapes available from the mid '80s complying more closely with IEC standards adjustment of EQ wasn't needed so much.  However, being manual, and also with each channel being individually adjustable, the ZX-9 can "tune-in" just about any tape you care to use. The only issue you can find is that with some very poor tapes it's almost impossible to get a steady azimuth adjustment. But that's OK as you wouldn't really want to be using such tapes on a deck like the ZX-9 anyway.   

Yes, the BX-300E is something of a "hybrid" in that while it uses the Sankyo transport of the later CR and DR series, the sound is not as clinical as those later series - indeed, it's closer to the ZX series, which I guess makes sense, as in Japan it was called the ZX-5. 

Posted on: 21 November 2017 by benjy

Here in the states,I keep hearing (a bit any way) that tape is making a come back. I have a tandberg tcd-340 for many years and had it serviced and recently picked up a tandberg td-20, working but in need of service. Both are fun but basically useless. The cassette does not have the advantage of portability after a tape is made no cassette even in  the car,and the r to r ,almost impossible to find tape and even a take-up spool can't be found at a fair price. But both part of a dream system. Between the green glow of my naim, and the clear light and red from the tandberg - visually stunning at least. And one last advantage - headphone socket.

Posted on: 22 November 2017 by Tabby cat

Thanks for your detailed reply with regard to the 1000 ZXL Richard makes alot of sence being the top Nak of the day.There so rare these days as they should be after 40 years only ever seen the gold plated limited edition on auction and dealer sites changing hands for £ 3000 +.    As a teenager I remember seeing pics of it and thinking that's a serious deck and it sowed the seeds for wanting a Nak in my system.

Must get my BX 300E to B@ W next year for a service - thanks you have inspired me

The BX 300 E is in some ways all the Nak you need just packs so much into a smaller Nak.

It's just FM - CD' s on my Nagra  and viny and of cause Cassettes ! Here.

Find streaming a bit souless ..... But each to their own.Take more comfort in looking at a wall of vinyl and tapes.

Posted on: 22 November 2017 by Gianluigi Mazzorana
Richard Dane posted:

For TC and Phil, I took some pics for you of the Aiwas (AD-F660 and AD-F770) in action.  Spot the differences...

 

Fantastic machines!

Posted on: 22 November 2017 by james n

Any chance of a picture of the whole rack Richard - you always seem to have a interesting collection of kit in use. 

Posted on: 22 November 2017 by Gianluigi Mazzorana

Like these

 

Posted on: 22 November 2017 by Phil Harris
Gianluigi Mazzorana posted:
Richard Dane posted:

For TC and Phil, I took some pics for you of the Aiwas (AD-F660 and AD-F770) in action.  Spot the differences...

 

Fantastic machines!

Those are just HiFi porn! Sorry though - only the fluorescent meters will do - the LED meters on the 600 just don't cut it for me.

Phil

Posted on: 22 November 2017 by Tabby cat
james n posted:
Richard Dane posted:

I finally got around to putting my old and rather sickly Pioneer CT-A9 on the bench.

Nice work there Richard !

Phil......put these up there in my sexy V.U 's        !

Posted on: 22 November 2017 by Phil Harris
Tabby cat posted:
james n posted:
Richard Dane posted:

I finally got around to putting my old and rather sickly Pioneer CT-A9 on the bench.

Nice work there Richard !

Phil......put these up there in my sexy V.U 's        !

OHHHHHHHHYEAH!

(...and tell me that mentally you didn't hear a "chickentikkaaaaaa" after reading that. )

Actually I was watching the series of "Dirk Gentley's Holistic Detective Agency" on NetFlix the other evening and just behind the sisters drumkit over her left shoulder I'm sure that I saw the twin-deck Akai tape deck that I used to have when I was 16 ... I'm sure I recognised the two purple "dubbing" buttons on the right hand side of it.

Phil

Posted on: 22 November 2017 by Happy Listener

Sadly my Aiwa (which looked akin to the above - I think mine an AD-R550) was scrapped, as the tape head kept jumping in to auto-reverse in the midst of a tape. It was repaired under warranty and then again post - but it just wouldn't behave and the bill for further repair was a very large % of the new cost, and just not worth it for me. 

Posted on: 22 November 2017 by Allante93

Brings Back Memories, Recording secessions from LP 12 to The Nak, I think it was a 680 ZX, but anyway nice deck! 

Pre-Loved Naim ain't cheap had to Sell My LP 12 & Nak. 

My Model, if you don't use it, Loose it!  

Downsize, Life Style, etc....

I was hoping this was an spill-over Thread,  as to Recording The Analog Vinyl  to Digital Mode. 

Perhaps the next Thread! 

The Good Old Days! 

Enjoy Your Music! 

PS.  I still have about 80 Pristine Albums, and Maybe 50 CDs that are done properly. 

Easing in to Digital Streaming > Core, combined with a device use to capture Meta-data!  

I think! 

 

Posted on: 22 November 2017 by Allante93

Posted on: 22 November 2017 by Allante93

Posted on: 22 November 2017 by Ivo B

Glad to see other tape supporters amongst Naim society. In 1991 I sold my Aiwa cassette deck and tapes and switched to CDs. Until recently when the tape nostalgia catch me. So here is my retro gear based on Pioneer and 2 x Nakamitchi. 

Posted on: 22 November 2017 by Richard Dane

I love those big Pioneers Ivo.  Is that a CT-F1250 on the left?  And maybe a CT-F900 or CT-F950 at the bottom?  And the RT-707 is very cool indeed...

Posted on: 22 November 2017 by Tabby cat

Lovely picture Ivo thanks for posting

Posted on: 23 November 2017 by Holmes

Thanks for this thread Richard and the resurrection.  As a result of reading this earlier in the year, I set up a search on the local (NZ) online auction site for a Marantz PMD and picked up a PMD670 W1B for $50 NZD including a memory card (without mains adapter or rechargeable battery) I've just found out as result of this thread jogging my memory, that I can buy the mains adapter new for $59 US + post.

All in all, great value, even using AA batteries. I've been using it to record vinyl, to listen to in FLAC (although now considering WAV) on my Fiio X1, while out and about. The recordings sound rather good.