AIR or EARTH ?

Posted by: TOBYJUG on 26 April 2017

The substance.  You know, the body of sound from an instrument or from a person.   Listening into the music at how good it represents a physical thing doing its thing in a space that's been recorded.

Probably come to a dead end where it's just about that flow of music, but where does this come from ?

Is it a view of a recording that takes in the whole  ? The air surrounding the noise makers within a space ?

As an example - someone sitting on a small chair playing an acoustic guitar . Do you want to hear the body of the guitar with its particular woods giving unique tones played resonating against the body of the player sitting so high above a wooden stage ? 

Or is it a view of a recording that takes in the essence of the musicality ?  Where phrasing, tempo and the line of melody. Listening more to the strings being plucked, played and held from the hands playing them ?

when I had budget gear this difference wasn't a part of the equation, you just heard it as is - but at a relatively diminished point that wasn't really noticeable. Until you move up. 

I don't think that until you get really up there with quality of gear that you get that same convergence of perspective - that you can get a great sense of both the musicality of nuance in a players ability with a great sense of the physicality that they can create with it in a physical space.

since most of us are in the middle, perhaps we side more to one or the other ?

Yes. It could ultimately be down to the quality of the recording and the quality of the people behind it. But still some prefer others over others because of this.

Posted on: 26 April 2017 by Tabby cat

Toby

As you elude to when you had budget gear the difearance wasn't that noticeable.

I suppose more resolution gives alot more insight into musical nuisances on recordings threw better amplifiers,source components.And shows up in the recording the skills of the person who mixed it on the recording.

For example at  work I listen to a Aiwa microsystem and say playing "Hard to thrill "by JJ Cale and Eric Clapton the cymbals don't sound metalic,more tizzy.It still captures alot of the recording though and is absolutely fine to listen too.

It's only playing the  same track threw my Quad 2805 electrostatics that the cymbals sound like metal being struck and you can hear more emotion in the vocals.I get a buzz from hearing what's going on in a recording threw more seperation and timbre of the instruments.Its what hifi is about if we where honest.It just enhances our love of music.

Useing a Dartzeel NHB 108 power amp and it ticks all those boxes.Its solid state but sounds more valve like.Just so holographic in presentation.The synergy with a Nagra valve pre and the Quad electrostatics has finally got me the sound I ve wanted.

 

Posted on: 26 April 2017 by joerand

Toby,

My view is that musicality - pure enjoyment of and involvement in a recording - doesn't have to come at much monetary cost. In fact, it's when you begin to become concerned with the other hi-fi factors that the musicality can get lost. I've been on an over year-long quest to find new speakers and in the process serendipitously found a better amp and TT cart. So while I certainly have the hi-fi factors in mind when I listen, musicality is paramount with overall system synergy being next important.

In the end, I simply want to relax and get involved with the music. I have a nice little room where I can get lost in music. I'd never want it to become a room where I get overly critical about the recordings or shortcomings of my gear. Resolution, clarity, and tonal accuracy are great, but when those come at the expense of making me only want to play the highest quality recordings in my holdings it doesn't make sense. I'll take the "lesser" gear (some may call it "colored") that gets me deeply involved with more of my music.

Posted on: 27 April 2017 by rhom

I think this is an analogous to the 'down-sizing' thread - when does the equipment start becoming an end in itself, rather than allowing you access to music?

My fondest hi fi days were in the late '80s, when I had a Linn Axis/K9/Nait 2/Mk I Linn Helix system. Not the 'nth' degree in high fidelity - but it presented all music enjoyably. Some recordings sounded better than others - but everything was 'listenable'.

Over the years, a Lingo LP12, fancy arm/cartridge, ever more complex pre/power/power supply combinations were acquired, along with 'better' speakers but - in the words of one of my favourite singers - 'something good got lost along the way'. The quality of recording became more of an issue - and some things sounded so poor, it stopped me from listening to them.

Most music is mastered to be played on something far less sophisticated - often with high levels of compression and equalisation. The better the system, the more these deficiencies are highlighted - and the less enjoyable the music seems to become.

Having not used my 'big' system for years, I've recently sold it and ordered an Atom. I won't be upgrading in the future. I just want to hear music well enough to 'get' the emotional content. I may even treat myself to a Rega Planar 3 and dig out my vinyl collection.....

Posted on: 27 April 2017 by Innocent Bystander

If I try something new in my replay system at home, I always struggle to apply hifi language to describe what I hear, instead I most often refer to clarity, and also, though to a lesser extent, to sound balance or to any curtailing of frequency spectrum, or to aspects of soundstage (mental image). And I suffer from the problem that playing decent music tends to just draw me into the music so I end up forgetting that I'm comparing things!

When I've been to a live acoustic performance of a solo guitarist (celloist, violinist etc) I haven't ever been aware of the body of the instrument or its different woods etc, but have purely and simply absorbed the tones and combined sounds of the plucked or strummed or bowed strings, to which of course the body and its different woods intimately contributed. Nor have I ever noticed the effect of the distance from the timber floor, or reverberations from ceiling an side walls or anything else, other than in terms of the resultant effect on clarity of sound (or more particularly I notice the lack of clarity in the case of a venue with poor acoustics!). 

However, when I've been to, for example, a larger ensemble, right up to full orchestra, I have sometimes picked out and listened to specific instruments while many have been playing together, for which the ability to do so relates to spatial information and not just picking out its unique tones (if desired I can cite my experience that taught me about the value of stereo). 

Also, though with live performances it happens predominently with amplified music, I notice when there is something out of balance, maybe one instrument too prominent (flute and snare drum have been common culprits) or inaudible, or curtailed top or bottom end  - and these are often the fault of the PA system setup (poor miking, poor system, poor sound person), or sometimes the venue (e.g difficult peaks and nulls - which includes when the mixing desk is in a position so affected).

So, when at home listening to a recording on my system it would be unnatural for me to become aware of the body of the guitar or the interaction between it and the floor - in fact to hear that would suggest bad miking technique, unless the idea is deliberately to let the listener hear it as perhaps the player would, with head positioned so close, rather than as the audience would.

However when I am listening at home it would be perfectly natural when an orchestra is playing for me to be able to locate and focus on one instrument in the mix. At the same time, because lack of clarity, poor sound balance and lack of fullness of frequency response all impact negatively on my enjoyment of the music, noticing them at home just as at a live oerformance is natural for me, and improvements in them in assessing new gear at home is a positive thing.

So, for recorded music played at home, musicality is in the music and its performance as captured in the recording and mastering process. Our systems are there to let it out,  which is where my preference towards accuracy comes in - though where the recording I hold is flawed, that does mean hearing the flaws, and perhaps the question is whether that is better or worse than not hearing good recordings so clearly. The obvious answer is an accurate system, but with moderating circuitry that can be switched in for playing of poor recordings...