Streamer or DAC upgrades

You don't mention your speakers.... I'd have thought that lack of thumping was a good thing. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

You don't mention your speakers.... I'd have thought that lack of thumping was a good thing. 

I'm using B&W 804D2.

Or shall I say lack of mid bass thumping?

555psde and powerlines were the cure for my 272! 

Emre posted:

555psde and powerlines were the cure for my 272! 

Hi, Emre, so u mean I should invest a 555PSdr (replace my xpsdr) on my NDX, instead of investing in ndac or NDS?

I would be hesitant about a nds, since streaming technology especially with Naim is evolving over the next years, and the old hardware and software platform will lack future improvements.

so a ps 555 or a used Ndac is a safer way to go currently.

Claus

Freddie Kee posted:

Emre posted:

555psde and powerlines were the cure for my 272! 

Hi, Emre, so u mean I should invest a 555PSdr (replace my xpsdr) on my NDX, instead of investing in ndac or NDS?

naim is changing all streaming components and the ndac is about 8 years. Perhaps it is better to invest in second hand or demo nds, because they can be soon replaced....or upgrade in 555dr and it will power everything as your ndx, or ndac, ndac2, nds, nds2....

Keler Pierre posted:

Freddie Kee posted:

Emre posted:

555psde and powerlines were the cure for my 272! 

Hi, Emre, so u mean I should invest a 555PSdr (replace my xpsdr) on my NDX, instead of investing in ndac or NDS?

naim is changing all streaming components and the ndac is about 8 years. Perhaps it is better to invest in second hand or demo nds, because they can be soon replaced....or upgrade in 555dr and it will power everything as your ndx, or ndac, ndac2, nds, nds2....

Will 555psdr connect to NDX will sound better than ndac link to NDX?

Used set of 555psdr purchase will need more budget compare to a used ndac by the way.

I wonder if careful attention to speaker positioning rather than splashing the cash on more equipment is the way forward. An NDS or a 555PS is not going to do much for bass issues. Speaking of which it's not clear what they are - too little, too much, or what. A few cushions and wallhangings may achieve a lot more than new black boxes.

I think an NDAC is a good option to consider if you don't mind an extra box. Used ones are not too expensive. Power it with your XPS for now. Some who have used the NDAC seem to prefer the older 555 to the newer 555DR with it, so making that upgrade from your XPS might not be so expensive.

Not everyone seems to like the Naim DC1 cable, and some have reported good results from some much cheaper alternatives.

I haven't heard your speakers, but I would be surprised if they were unable to produce enough bass, so I think you are right to consider a source upgrade. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

I wonder if careful attention to speaker positioning rather than splashing the cash on more equipment is the way forward. An NDS or a 555PS is not going to do much for bass issues. Speaking of which it's not clear what they are - too little, too much, or what. A few cushions and wallhangings may achieve a lot more than new black boxes.

• yes, you are right. If the upgrade is only to improve the bass, nds or 555 dr are not a good choice. More BW803 if Freddie likes the BW speakers sound, or better electronics like a nac 252 or second 250. 

Freddie Kee posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

You don't mention your speakers.... I'd have thought that lack of thumping was a good thing. 

I'm using B&W 804D2.

Or shall I say lack of mid bass thumping?

I'd like suggest a sub bass system like REL G1/G2. Should solve all your problems.

I would sugest that you do not develop your system to achieve a 'thumping' bass - as a bass player I actually hate a thumping bass (whatever that means) especially in a lower mid-range. To me it always suggest something is wrong the room acoustics. Articulate, tight and fast bassa is something else.

I've tested all of of the variants the OP is considering:

To start with - NDX does NOT lack bass. Adding any power supply will not turn it into a bass'n'drums machine (thank God for that).

NDX + 555PS - not a good idea in my opinion. 555PS takes an NDX to a slightly uncomfortable place. XPSDR is a natural partner here.

NDX + ndAC = a very good upgrade for the onboard NDX's DAC. Adding a power supply to the nDAC takes it to an even better place. I've tested XPSDR, 555PS DR and 555PS and liked a non-DR version of the 555 better. This is what I currently run (NDX + nDAC via DC1 and a pre-loved 555PS). I think DC-1 DAC is not a step forward here.

Finding a decent pre-loved NDS would be a good idea, provided you once can power it from a 555PS. 

Given that the OP already has an NDX and XPSDR I would work with the speakers first.

If the bass is missing , then given that those speakers should be capable of getting down comfortably below 40Hz at least, it makes me wonder about the room  (dimensions,  speaker and listening positions). Have you tried playing around with different positioning? At its simplest that can be as simple as walking around the room listening while trying the speakers in different positions. I would try that before changing other gear.

If the bass is there, at the same level relative to the rest of the spectrum as you hear it live, but you prefer more than is the natural amount that is another matter, and would require artificial boost...

Keler Pierre posted:

Freddie Kee posted:

Emre posted:

555psde and powerlines were the cure for my 272! 

Hi, Emre, so u mean I should invest a 555PSdr (replace my xpsdr) on my NDX, instead of investing in ndac or NDS?

naim is changing all streaming components and the ndac is about 8 years. Perhaps it is better to invest in second hand or demo nds, because they can be soon replaced....or upgrade in 555dr and it will power everything as your ndx, or ndac, ndac2, nds, nds2....

Hi, Keler, I'm quite interested on your idea, in buying a 555ps while waiting for Naim to release a newer version of ndac or NDS..

but some has commented that 555ps is not matching with NDX as natural partner PS for NDX is still XPSdr.

Even a used 555PS is still more costly than a used ndac.

Guys, I have received some suggestions that I should replace my hicapdr with a supercapdr.

some even recommend me to get another hicapdr to connect to my 282.

Will this really give me improvements in bass section?

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

I would be hesitant about a nds, since streaming technology especially with Naim is evolving over the next years, and the old hardware and software platform will lack future improvements.

so a ps 555 or a used Ndac is a safer way to go currently.

Claus

Hi, Claus, do you have any idea which setup will give me more improvements in overall sound, NDX>555PS or NDX>ndac?

A used 555ps is still costlier than ndac by the way.

Freddie Kee posted:

Guys, I have received some suggestions that I should replace my hicapdr with a supercapdr.

some even recommend me to get another hicapdr to connect to my 282.

Will this really give me improvements in bass section?

Neither. The problem is not with your amp or source. It's most likely with your speakers and how they are positioned.

We're still not sure from your posts if your bass is thumping (one note?) at the moment and it's a problem or if you want more bass. In either case speaker positioning is the first thing to address. If you're struggling with it try this systematic procedure. (cut and paste it without the quotes)

"http://www.hifi.ir/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/master-set.pdf"

I've never followed it fully, I don't used toe in during setup for instance but then none of my speakers are designed to be toed in more than a degree or two and even then it's the last thing I adjust. 

The difference between one not bass and even bass when setting up my Alleas was 5mm.

When I auditioned a Supercap against a Hicap it did clean up a muddy bass in the demo room (Kudos C2 but I think it was more to do with the room) but try the repositioning first.

Freddie Kee posted:

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

I would be hesitant about a nds, since streaming technology especially with Naim is evolving over the next years, and the old hardware and software platform will lack future improvements.

so a ps 555 or a used Ndac is a safer way to go currently.

Claus

Hi, Claus, do you have any idea which setup will give me more improvements in overall sound, NDX>555PS or NDX>ndac?

A used 555ps is still costlier than ndac by the way.

That's easy:

NDX + 555PS will 'ruin' the sound (as in it will start to highlight some of the NDX's traits which are not so nice).
NDX + nDAC will impove upon the NDX performance. You can then add your XPSDR to the nDAC.

For me I n did need to add the 555PS to the NDAC before it gave a worthwhile, and significant performance lift over the bare NDX.. I felt prior to that one was for the most part just changing the presentation of the audio.

Freddie Kee posted:

Guys, I have received some suggestions that I should replace my hicapdr with a supercapdr.

some even recommend me to get another hicapdr to connect to my 282.

Will this really give me improvements in bass section?

Be careful... I followed the forum a few years ago and bought a used SuperCapDR for my 282 to replace my HiCapDR. I did this without auditioning at home. The SuperCap on the 282 seemed to make quite a difference on my 282, but not in a positive way.. I felt the 282 had become too edgey.. detail was more prominent, but it felt perhaps unnaturally so. After a month I found I was listening to music less and less and I was trying to like the sound, so I put my HiCapDR back, music and full pleasure was restored and I kept my SuperCapDR in storage until I later got my 252

Freddie Kee posted:

Emre posted:

555psde and powerlines were the cure for my 272! 

Hi, Emre, so u mean I should invest a 555PSdr (replace my xpsdr) on my NDX, instead of investing in ndac or NDS?

I can not say that but 555psdr on my 272 did bring the bass I was after, not too much in every song but kick ass in a song that it is present

Biko by gabriel, breathe by telepop music, missing by everything but the girl sounded full but tight.. also powerlines are must

Will xpsdr do the same effect this I don't know

Ndac is an antique.... A digital antique, not saying is bad but is very old product in a fast developing category

Freddie Kee posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Freddie Kee posted:

Emre posted:

555psde and powerlines were the cure for my 272! 

Hi, Emre, so u mean I should invest a 555PSdr (replace my xpsdr) on my NDX, instead of investing in ndac or NDS?

naim is changing all streaming components and the ndac is about 8 years. Perhaps it is better to invest in second hand or demo nds, because they can be soon replaced....or upgrade in 555dr and it will power everything as your ndx, or ndac, ndac2, nds, nds2....

Hi, Keler, I'm quite interested on your idea, in buying a 555ps while waiting for Naim to release a newer version of ndac or NDS..

but some has commented that 555ps is not matching with NDX as natural partner PS for NDX is still XPSdr.

Even a used 555PS is still more costly than a used ndac.

i have not heared ndx with 555 ps but i would be surprised if it sounds no good. In any case you must hear by yourself, all users have different points of views. The positive with the 555 ps. or dr is that it can power at its best the future nds, or ndac2(?) or second hand ndac.

A lot of people are very pleased with cdx2/555 ps or cds3/555 ps, also not the natural partners.

Hi don't have much experience of ndx with ndac but as other has pointed out you seem to have a well balanced system and upgrading might not adress the issues you mention. I would experiment with speaker placement/setup first. Next, you don't mention what cables you use? If you are not using Naca5 I believe that might be worth trying. PowerLines might also be an alternative. To me both these have some of the bass character you are missing, and should be relatively easy to audition provided you have access to a friendly dealer.

i am quite sure that a nac 252 will give a better bass( clearer and more refined) to your 282/hicap/ nap 250. It was my case.  But the room intereactions are also very important.