Digital Source

I would suggest you get a NDX and get rid of your additional dac, if you want later to upgrade your sound the NDAC could be the right partner, while the NDX could be everything you need.

I agree with Bert, NDX/Supernait is a great 2 box system. Plenty of further upgrade options from there if you want them, too, but you may not feel the need.

NDX every time,  you don't need the DACv1,  the NDX DAC is a good 'un.  If & when you want a better DAC,  Hugo is the obvious contender or nDAC with XPS

Naim Star,  OK so its got a CD player,  but why do you need that, with Sonos you've been stuck in a 16-bit world & a CD player will keep you there,  time to move on.    The Nova would be a better option over Star & - although as yet unheard (by most) - it should be a match (or better) for your SN2 & it includes a top end steamer that has some features & abilities that are better than NDX.  Bottom line is how it sounds,  & that is, as yet,  unknown. 

NDX >> V1. If you like the Sonos connect + V1 and don't care about hi resolution and/or ability to use Naim app, I'd just stick with it. The NDX doesn't appear a great value since the technology is "outdated." 

The USB input to the V1 is considered the best of the 6. Maybe the MicroRendu is the best value/solution. (I think it's < 1,000 USD)

you have a lot of different advices and it complicates your decision: ndx, ndac, chord hugo.....

Personnally i would choose ssecond hand ndx.. But after you will be tempted to add xps to it and perhaps a better dac to it....A second hand ndac would be good too. And a better dac to your sonos too...

Try to hear by yourself, in different dealers. it is the best way.  Don't forget too that ndac, ndx, will be soon replaced in naim range, so better go second hand with them. 

Unitinova looks tempting also.  But after you can't upgrade a lot. So you must also determine if you want to upgrade in the future or not. If not, it may be the most attractive solution.

I would definitely get an NDX (with an FM / DAB module - very useful if underrated) and just skip the DC-1 using the funds to get a HiCap DR for your SuperNait2.

If you still have Mac Mini try Audirvana - cost is peanuts and its sound quality is excellent, though its library function is variable depending on your metadata. With it you can dedicate a usb bus, so bypassing the limitations of Mac's soundcard. Into a DAC like Hugo, via an isolator to remove RF contamination (I used Gustard U12) it would challenge many a dedicated streamer, and with built in storage the vagaries of network streaming aren't a challenge. Control of music headless is simple with an iPad or iPhone using Audirvana's app, otherwise any tablet, smartphone or computer using VNC remote access, which also provides the tool to manage the MM itself if you nood to - but I ignore Mac updates and recent Audirvana updates because it doesn't need them. If you're interested in Tidal or Qobuz online streaming Audirvana integrates them.

Mine is a late 2012 MM that I've fitted with 2 1GB SSDs and 16GB RAM, running Yosemite. It is good enough to feed Chord Dave DAC to which I have upgraded from Hugo.

if I was looking for an alternative, I'd look into the Naim Uniti Core (but a bit too new yet to know how good it is), or Melco (similar sound quality to MM/A) or Innuos Zenith, for plug and play ability, or if I wanted a cheaper but more DIY option I might look at microRendu. (Info on all of these to be found searching thid forum). For a DAC for any of these I'd suggest Chord Mojo/Hugo/Hugo2/HugoTt/Dave, but with the first three RF isolation from a computer vpbased source is likely to be essential for best sound quality.

The mac is now being used elsewhere so i am keen to find a dedicated solution. Regarding the NDX it was mentioned there is an NDX2 on the way so best to buy secondhand atm. Would think about waiting for this to arrive as that makes a lot of sense given the updates naim has made in streaming since 2011.

Does anyone have any idea when this might be i would imagine it could be not for a ehile considering the focus on the uniti updates right now.

In that case rather than buy a second hand ndx i might go for something like an Star to keep me going until the NDX2 and i would have a nice upgrade path if the NDX2 is as good as would hope and have a full standalone system to put in another room

I wouldn't wait for an ilusory upgrade.

There is always going to be something new 'just around the corner'. A pre-loved NDX is a good bet as you can sell it on if you fancy an upgrade and a financial loss will be minimal.

The NDX2 / NDS2 /N272-2 are only speculation.. and if there are new products they might not even be called that. I think your choices will be current Classic series or the new Uniti range for a year or so.

The speculation is that new digital streaming architecture and miniaturisation learning of the new Uniti series may be adopted into new versions of the Classic streamer (NDX, NDS)  and streamer-NAC (N272) products at some point... or of course it might never happen.

372!

One option could be ND5XS + nDAC, which would easily beat NDX in sound quality and you'd get streaming also. Of course it's two boxes against one so more space needed. DAC-V1 is acutally surprisingly good, quite close to bare nDAC. But after PSU upgrade to nDAC, I think there's no competition.  HCDR for SN2 also recommended, your 804D's would most probably benefit greatly. Bare NDX is great fun to listen to, but nDAC has more refined and relaxed sound with greater resolution and depth. Also for some reason, NDX caused listening fatigue in my setup but these things can usullay be tweaked with cables etc. 

dvshannow posted:

The mac is now being used elsewhere so i am keen to find a dedicated solution. Regarding the NDX it was mentioned there is an NDX2 on the way so best to buy secondhand atm. Would think about waiting for this to arrive as that makes a lot of sense given the updates naim has made in streaming since 2011.

Does anyone have any idea when this might be i would imagine it could be not for a ehile considering the focus on the uniti updates right now.

In that case rather than buy a second hand ndx i might go for something like an Star to keep me going until the NDX2 and i would have a nice upgrade path if the NDX2 is as good as would hope and have a full standalone system to put in another room

uniti star is quite the same as SN2/dac5 and sonos. Why not take a 202/200 to upgrade your sn2 and wait for ndx2 or ndac2...?

Patu posted:

One option could be ND5XS + nDAC, which would easily beat NDX in sound quality and you'd get streaming also. Of course it's two boxes against one so more space needed. DAC-V1 is acutally surprisingly good, quite close to bare nDAC. But after PSU upgrade to nDAC, I think there's no competition.  HCDR for SN2 also recommended, your 804D's would most probably benefit greatly. Bare NDX is great fun to listen to, but nDAC has more refined and relaxed sound with greater resolution and depth. Also for some reason, NDX caused listening fatigue in my setup but these things can usullay be tweaked with cables etc. 

Wow, that's interesting... if I have one complaint about the NDX it's a bit too smooth and laid back.. though I find Fraim and a hiline open it out to give a bit more musical bite. Yes the NDAC is more bombastic and gives more sonic fireworks, but I did find the 555PS was needed to make the NDAC sound really enjoyable to my ears and take a slight digital edge away I otherwise heard ..... the dual decoupled power suppliers I am sure really help with that design.. The NDAC/555PS is great fun to listen to, especially 44.1/16/2 ... I ran mine for a few years... 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I now run my NDX natively.

Really? 

Yes... I have taken my Hugo out.. and acclimatising to the Naim sound again and if I am honest I am enjoying it..  My tastes might be evolving again.... I know the Mandelbrot effect is not as vivid, but it's not totally absent either.. perhaps the 252 of mine is more magical than I thought ...

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Patu posted:

One option could be ND5XS + nDAC, which would easily beat NDX in sound quality and you'd get streaming also. Of course it's two boxes against one so more space needed. DAC-V1 is acutally surprisingly good, quite close to bare nDAC. But after PSU upgrade to nDAC, I think there's no competition.  HCDR for SN2 also recommended, your 804D's would most probably benefit greatly. Bare NDX is great fun to listen to, but nDAC has more refined and relaxed sound with greater resolution and depth. Also for some reason, NDX caused listening fatigue in my setup but these things can usullay be tweaked with cables etc. 

Wow, that's interesting... if I have one complaint about the NDX it's a bit too smooth and laid back.. though I find Fraim and a hiline open it out to give a bit more musical bite. Yes the NDAC is more bombastic and gives more sonic fireworks, but I did find the 555PS was needed to make the NDAC sound really enjoyable to my ears and take a slight digital edge away I otherwise heard ..... the dual decoupled power suppliers I am sure really help with that design.. The NDAC/555PS is great fun to listen to, especially 44.1/16/2 ... I ran mine for a few years... 

It's funny how it greatly depends on the rest of the setup how we perceive a certain equipment in the chain. Though IIRC you use ATC SCM19 so we have very similar speakers as I use SCM40. Anyway, NDX had very "in your face" and aggressive sound when I had it in my setup. Great attack and forward sound which was very fun to listen to but as I wrote, it didn't have as refined and deep sound as nDAC. 

I'm closer to Simon's view on the NDX, it sits in my 82HiCap135s, B&W804s system alongside a Roksan TMS and a HDX. Of the three sources, it's the one I'd describe as slightly genteel, very musical and listenable, and the one I use most (TMS listening restricted by having to move a cat from my lap every time I turn a record over). 

I found the NDAC when demoed a while ago to have a slight digital edge which I didn't get on with, the NDX is very musical, the HDX has a tiny bit more get up and go.

Always demo, 3 people, 3 different views on the same kit, albeit through quite different systems.

another vote for NDX = mine is 282/HCDR/200/ B&W 805N - again i dont have a DAC on my NDX

dvshannow posted:

Hi,

I have a basic Naim setup, SN2 amp, Dac v1 , Speakers are B&W 804D + DB1 sub and using currently a Sonos  Connect as a digital source, this is sub optimal i know as i was previously using a mac mini with jRiver and got tired of the maintenance of updates etc as the mac didn't have a monitor connected. 

Now i am relocating my system to the office i am looking to revamp the digital source The problem is the market of digital sources to feed a DAC seems pretty limited and seem to be

1. Naim separates streamer such as the NDX and then decide if to link it into the DACv1 as a transport or use its internal DAC. This seems wasteful as will be buying another DAC which i might not need,

2. Naim Uniti Star which will act as a transport and will also provide a CD player and ripper functionality and also give the option of using it as a one box setup in the future. This might be more wasteful on face value but the product looks much better value than the NDX streamer similar price but with a whole lot more tech and brand new. Now the DAC will not be up to the NDX perhaps, but as a digital source how much does that matter as the Dav V1 controls the timing i understand so is it really that fussy ? (to be honest the Sonos connect sounds pretty ok through it!) 

3. Get a 3rd party streamer 

I am kind of liking the NDX option but i will then have to do some testing to see if i prefer the NDX dac or the Dacv1, and i think it will be a nicely matching system ....but... from what i have read i am not that sure it will give that much more performance than a Uniti Star as a transport 

since the Dac v1 is a great DAC and that is where i intuitively believe the money should be spent on making digital audio sound good is there anything i may be missing here?

If you are happy with the DAC V1, what is the point of buying an NDX? Is the NDX DAC significantly better than the DAC V1? If you need a UPnP renderer with a good USB output, buy a UPnP renderer with a good USB output. The Sonore micro Rendu seems an obvious candidate but there are alternatives, of course. You can also install the upmpdcli UPnP renderer on a Raspberry Pi very easily, have a look at https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...aspberry-pi-3?page=1. upmpdcli will also give you access to internet radio, Tidal and Qobuz. If you do not mind the limitations of the new Naim Core (among others, no internet radio, no Tidal, no Qobuz, very limited customizability and flexibility) you could also try one, it should have good USB and SPDIF outputs.

dvshannow posted:

Hi,

 

Now i am relocating my system to the office i am looking to revamp the digital source The problem is the market of digital sources to feed a DAC seems pretty limited and seem to be

3. Get a 3rd party streamer 

 

The choices are limited if you limit them.

My suggestion.

Use that mac of yours to run Roon (or use any PC you have either), they need not be near the hifi just on the network

Get a Raspberry Pi (running Roon bridge)  to connect to the excellent asynchronous USB input on the DAC V1.

For less than £500 (including a lifetime Roon membership) you have a future proofed option that will sound as good as the NDX.

To reiterate, your choices are limited only if you limit them.

.sjb

Sloop John B posted:

dvshannow posted:

Hi,

 

Now i am relocating my system to the office i am looking to revamp the digital source The problem is the market of digital sources to feed a DAC seems pretty limited and seem to be

3. Get a 3rd party streamer 

 

The choices are limited if you limit them.

My suggestion.

 

Use that mac of yours to run Roon (or use any PC you have either), they need not be near the hifi just on the network

Get a Raspberry Pi (running Roon bridge)  to connect to the excellent asynchronous USB input on the DAC V1.

For less than £500 (including a lifetime Roon membership) you have a future proofed option that will sound as good as the NDX.

To reiterate, your choices are limited only if you limit them.

.sjb

 

why a raspberry pi with DAC V1 is better than sonos DAC V1?

Hi,

You mention that you are using a Sonos Connect as a source. While it has it's sonic limitations, it also has the benefit of offering a great range of streaming services. I recently purchased a Wyred4Sound modified Connect and a Nordost Purple Flare power cord, which is terminated for the Sonos. This combination is a significant step up from the stock connect in terms of smoothness and ease; more of the musical info comes through and at the same time, it is less 'gritty' than the stock unit, so to speak. The Darko reviews on both the W4S mod and the power cord are very complimentary and, I think, very truthful. 

If you have, and like the DAC V1,  then perhaps you could consider a modded Sonos as a modest interim streamer. Then you could wait for updated or newer streamers from Naim while preserving the equipment you have. Good quality CD resolution can be very fine, and Tidal and Deezer Elite will give you a world of music in lossless form. 

Just a thought. 

Keler Pierre posted:

Sloop John B posted:

dvshannow posted:

Hi,

 

Now i am relocating my system to the office i am looking to revamp the digital source The problem is the market of digital sources to feed a DAC seems pretty limited and seem to be

3. Get a 3rd party streamer 

 

The choices are limited if you limit them.

My suggestion.

 

Use that mac of yours to run Roon (or use any PC you have either), they need not be near the hifi just on the network

Get a Raspberry Pi (running Roon bridge)  to connect to the excellent asynchronous USB input on the DAC V1.

For less than £500 (including a lifetime Roon membership) you have a future proofed option that will sound as good as the NDX.

To reiterate, your choices are limited only if you limit them.

.sjb

 

why a raspberry pi with DAC V1 is better than sonos DAC V1?

1. Roon
2. RAAT (what Roon uses to transfer audio)
3. Hi- Res capability (Sonos is limited to CD rates)
4. ability to up sample to 384kHz in Roon
5. and in case it hasn't been obvious so far ... Roon.

.sjb

There is now a quite arange of renderers named on heard, but very little comparative information on sound quality to help the OP decide between them (if ist is indeed sound quality that is the driver), and I have read observations about some of them that suggest sound quality may not be as good as other possibilities (e.g. Roon as renderer in things I read gave the impression that it was only thought to sound as good as Audirvana on Rather more limiting systems than thowe where the reverse was found.) 

For the sake of clarity, what follows is my own experience, and I am citing the system as that can be very significant in terms of what might be heard - can I suggest others who haven't done so do the same?

ND5XS compared to fully optimised Audirvana on Mac Mini, into Hugo, through Musical Fidelity P270 and IMF RSPM speakers: ND5XS better.

Ditto with Gustard U12 isolator/converter between MM and Hugo: MM/Aud better than ND5XS - not night and day, but subtly better presentation and clarity - but more distinct than the improvement some time earlier had bee adding XP5XS to ND5XS when in full streamer mode.

Melco N1A compared to fully optimised Audirvana on Mac Mini, into Dave DAC, Bryston 4Bsst2, PMC Fact 12: indistinguishable. (Gustard not used as Dave has excellent RF rejection).