Digital Source

Posted by: dvshannow on 29 April 2017

Hi,

I have a basic Naim setup, SN2 amp, Dac v1 , Speakers are B&W 804D + DB1 sub and using currently a Sonos Connect as a digital source, this is sub optimal i know as i was previously using a mac mini with jRiver and got tired of the maintenance of updates etc as the mac didn't have a monitor connected.

Now i am relocating my system to the office i am looking to revamp the digital source The problem is the market of digital sources to feed a DAC seems pretty limited and seem to be

1. Naim separates streamer such as the NDX and then decide if to link it into the DACv1 as a transport or use its internal DAC. This seems wasteful as will be buying another DAC which i might not need,

2. Naim Uniti Star which will act as a transport and will also provide a CD player and ripper functionality and also give the option of using it as a one box setup in the future. This might be more wasteful on face value but the product looks much better value than the NDX streamer similar price but with a whole lot more tech and brand new. Now the DAC will not be up to the NDX perhaps, but as a digital source how much does that matter as the Dav V1 controls the timing i understand so is it really that fussy ? (to be honest the Sonos connect sounds pretty ok through it!)

3. Get a 3rd party streamer

I am kind of liking the NDX option but i will then have to do some testing to see if i prefer the NDX dac or the Dacv1, and i think it will be a nicely matching system ....but... from what i have read i am not that sure it will give that much more performance than a Uniti Star as a transport

since the Dac v1 is a great DAC and that is where i intuitively believe the money should be spent on making digital audio sound good is there anything i may be missing here?

Posted on: 24 May 2017 by William

Thank you Gavin for pointing that out, yes I am already aware of this; however I am a long time frustrated user of iTunes, Naim, Lumin and Kazoo, etc.. I got to use Roon briefly at the Chord Electronics stand in Munich and I suspect that, while they are being a bit naughty with the price, they are offering software which does what you always wanted iTunes & Co. to do. At any rate there's a trial period in which I can make up my mind.

Posted on: 24 May 2017 by Sloop John B

Gavin B posted:
William - please be aware that there's a subscription cost for using Roon (I think) and I seem to recall it's not cheap.

Roon Lifetime membership (while it's still available) costs less than a Naim Powerline.

It's all relative.

.sjb

Posted on: 24 May 2017 by Klout10

Strange that I don't hear anybody on the forum about the new Uniti's being Roon Compatibel (whatever that means). It has been mentioned during a review on a Dutch website however ...

Posted on: 24 May 2017 by ChrisSU

Klout10 posted:
Strange that I don't hear anybody on the forum about the new Uniti's being Roon Compatibel (whatever that means). It has been mentioned during a review on a Dutch website however ...

Naim have said that it's on their 'to do list' to add it, but won't be enabled until a later date.

Posted on: 24 May 2017 by nbpf

ChrisSU posted:
Klout10 posted:
Strange that I don't hear anybody on the forum about the new Uniti's being Roon Compatibel (whatever that means). It has been mentioned during a review on a Dutch website however ...
Naim have said that it's on their 'to do list' to add it, but won't be enabled until a later date.

Moreover, I can imagine that many Naim users would be perfectly happy feeding their Naim DACs and streamers with a simple, high quality Roon endpoint. They may not actually want such an endpoint to come with a built-in DAC, with an amplifier and perhaps with a ripping station. For users who already have a Naim system, these components would potentially be redundant. They would warm up the shelves and potentially have a negative impact on the sound quality of the endpoint itself. In contrast, a sleek device able to run just a Roon server, a Roon endpoint, a UPnP server, a UPnP renderer (or a combination of these) and with outstanding SPDIF, USB and Ethernet outputs would be an interesting proposition for owners of Naim DACs and streamers.

Posted on: 06 June 2017 by William

Have now tried the Raspberry Pi3 with Hifiberry Digi+ via optical into Mojo into Naim integrated amp and it is at least as good as the bare NDX. If anything it's better. And yes Roon is amazing. Has anybody tried this kind of setup into high-end Naim amplification, say 252/300 DR and compared it with NDX+XPS DR?

Posted on: 06 June 2017 by Eloise

nbpf posted:
Moreover, I can imagine that many Naim users would be perfectly happy feeding their Naim DACs and streamers with a simple, high quality Roon endpoint. They may not actually want such an endpoint to come with a built-in DAC, with an amplifier and perhaps with a ripping station. For users who already have a Naim system, these components would potentially be redundant. They would warm up the shelves and potentially have a negative impact on the sound quality of the endpoint itself. In contrast, a sleek device able to run just a Roon server, a Roon endpoint, a UPnP server, a UPnP renderer (or a combination of these) and with outstanding SPDIF, USB and Ethernet outputs would be an interesting proposition for owners of Naim DACs and streamers.

The "problem" for me when I see non-integrated systems like a Roon endpoint and Naim DAC is that you loose the system integration.

When I pick up the Naim controller ... I select the required music (UPnP or Tidal or via Spotify), press play and know it will have the right input selected and the volume can be changed as needed, all from one App.

If I have Roon and a separate endpoint I don't think I can do that.

(And yes I'm lazy ... but its also user friendly for anyone else in the house who uses it)

Posted on: 06 June 2017 by nbpf

Eloise posted:
nbpf posted:
Moreover, I can imagine that many Naim users would be perfectly happy feeding their Naim DACs and streamers with a simple, high quality Roon endpoint. They may not actually want such an endpoint to come with a built-in DAC, with an amplifier and perhaps with a ripping station. For users who already have a Naim system, these components would potentially be redundant. They would warm up the shelves and potentially have a negative impact on the sound quality of the endpoint itself. In contrast, a sleek device able to run just a Roon server, a Roon endpoint, a UPnP server, a UPnP renderer (or a combination of these) and with outstanding SPDIF, USB and Ethernet outputs would be an interesting proposition for owners of Naim DACs and streamers.
The "problem" for me when I see non-integrated systems like a Roon endpoint and Naim DAC is that you loose the system integration.
When I pick up the Naim controller ... I select the required music (UPnP or Tidal or via Spotify), press play and know it will have the right input selected and the volume can be changed as needed, all from one App.
If I have Roon and a separate endpoint I don't think I can do that.
(And yes I'm lazy ... but its also user friendly for anyone else in the house who uses it)

I usually select what to play -- UPnP, Tidal, Qobuz or internet radio -- in the control point and the volume of the SN2 with the Narcom 4. I actually like this solution but I see the advantages of volume control on the control app, of course.

Posted on: 06 June 2017 by Huge

Eloise, it's easy...

Use a Roon Endpoint that responds to IR remote control commands. Get a simple composite video camera, point this at the display of the Roon Endpoint, and take the output to your television.

Then use a Logitech Harmony remote control. Programme the 'Music' button to
1 Turn on the Television
2 Select the Composite Video input
3 Select the required input on the DAC
4 Select the required input on the Preamp
5 Control navigation by the Roon Endpoint
6 Control volume via the preamp

Now you can control it with the remote and see the selections on the television Of course of the display of the Roon endpoint is via a computer that'll have to remain on all the time and never be used for anything else!

Simples crazy

Or you could just use a 272 or Naim streamer and preamp!

Posted on: 07 June 2017 by nbpf

William posted:
Have now tried the Raspberry Pi3 with Hifiberry Digi+ via optical into Mojo into Naim integrated amp and it is at least as good as the bare NDX. If anything it's better. And yes Roon is amazing. Has anybody tried this kind of setup into high-end Naim amplification, say 252/300 DR and compared it with NDX+XPS DR?

Very nice, thanks for the report! I plan to try the Hifiberry Digi+ Pro with BNC SPDIF connector into the Naim DAC. With a clean PSU, the Pi3 with the Hifiberry Digi+ Pro on the top might well replace my current four boxes. I am not aware of any systematic comparisons but the Hifiberry Digi+ is used in Bryston's BDP-Pi, if I am not mistaken. Thus, I would expect its sound quality to be more than decent. It would be interesting to compare the electrical SPDIF outputs of NDX+XPS DR, Core and Hifiberry Digi+ Pro BNC. Time will tell ...

Posted on: 08 June 2017 by William

William posted:
Have now tried the Raspberry Pi3 with Hifiberry Digi+ via optical into Mojo into Naim integrated amp and it is at least as good as the bare NDX. If anything it's better. And yes Roon is amazing. Has anybody tried this kind of setup into high-end Naim amplification, say 252/300 DR and compared it with NDX+XPS DR?

It seems I could have answered my own question had I viewed a few members' profiles (something that is apparently impossible on an iPhone). However, to be on the safe side, I have ordered a young pre-loved 252/300 DR and a Fraim. Hoping for Hugo 2 to hit Europe before the kit arrives...