New to Naim: Nova vs 272 vs ND5XS and 250DR vs 300DR

perizoqui posted:

Eoink posted:

the Nova makes more sense, it has the newer technology, what I've heard was very high quality, and has the future-proofing my NDX and the 272 lack. 

I would love to know whether the Nova technology is indeed newer and/or better, or whether it's just a pared down 272 with a pared down 200 stuffed in the same box.

Why do you say the Nova has future-proofing and the 272 doesn't? Because of over-the-internet firmware upgrades?

The new Uniti  series is very different from the N272 and the rest of the streamers and amps.. Some new thinking, architectures and designs, but similar Naim sound, at least when I heard some prototypes. There is, so I was told, a very conscious move away from the internal modular designs of earlier products and more of a bottom up design approach. If you are interested see if you can arrange a factory visit and talk to the chief designer, you might also be able to listen to them in the audition room. I heard the Uniti series drive Sopra 1 speakers there.

Simon

james n posted: 

Pedro - don't forget to factor in the cost of having the Naim kit modified to suit US mains voltage when you take it home.

Is that really necessary? I'm looking at the back of the Nova photo (attached) and it looks like it can take either voltage/frequency.

alanbass1 posted:

I think you have underpriced the NAP300DR. This is £7,600 in the UK assuming you are buying new

Perhaps, I got my prices from:

http://www.signals.uk.com/wp-c...List-UK-Jan-2017.pdf

Your price makes sense. That would put the 272+300 combo out of my price range. Could still get the Nova and add the 300 later if I felt I needed it. Or the 272+250 now.

The 300 won't work without its dedicated power supply, which brings the cost to about £7,500. Listing the PS separately is a bit stupid if you ask me. 

The Nova includes the new streaming architecture, which allows you to use google cast to send music to the player. 

This may or may not be important. 

As others have said, remember that you will have to pay to have the boxes converted to 110V from the UK 230V. 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Hi Pedro, the new Uniti series are something rather special... however the differences are not really all about SQ with Classic series .. it's about approach as well. The Classic series is all about maximum SQ through separation (albeit there are hybrids like the N272) and provides modular options.. perhaps more suited to the audio enthusiast who wants to explore. The new Uniti products have had a break through in integrated product SQ for Naim and a new approach to power supplies and digital streaming architecture and noise management, but are not modular and tend to be one stop solution, albeit you can add an additional poweramp/sub. Of course it's the Nova Star  that is the most integrated one stop shop.... and then there is the reference version the Nova with slightly less integration (no inbuilt ripper)

If you are looking to find a solution to put in and forget the nnew Uniti series may  be compelling, if you are looking at different ways to enjoy and experience recorded music/audio over the years then I would strongly recommend the Classic series. Think of them as parallel evolutions as opposed to being part of a sequential food chain. That is certainly how Naim explained it to me last December at their HQ and I can see why.

Simon

Thank you Simon, this is extremely helpful. Would love to know what about the Nova is a breakthrough over the 272. The catch is that the 272 has the upgradable power supply and the Nova doesn't. Everyone on here seems to feel those upgraded power supplies make a huge difference.

GraemeH posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Option 4.

You can always add a separate power supply to your N272 at a later stage.

I agree. Having been quite far up the Naim ladder I've now settled with 272/250DR S400. I think the 272 is an amazingly player (and not just 'for the money'). It has a transparency & musical coherence other naim combinations struggle to better ime.

You should at least try it. You might be surprised.

G

This seems to be the closest thing to a consensus, I agree I should try it. Worried about futureproofing comments and the possibility that the Nova streaming and preamp section might be better than the 272.

Hi Perizoqui, see my later post above... they are very different indeed and somewhat of a fresh approach from the current Classic series and even the powersupplies are quite different... there are no 'upgrade' options in the new series as there has been new thinking on noise management and design apparently. Of course what counts in the end is how they sound for the money. Early prototypes however sounded very good indeed. Hopefully the production ones will be equally as good if not better.

However despite that the holy grail and the core Naim DNA so we were told  is still seen as decoupled source, pre, poweramp and powersupply

perizoqui posted:

james n posted: 

Pedro - don't forget to factor in the cost of having the Naim kit modified to suit US mains voltage when you take it home.

Is that really necessary? I'm looking at the back of the Nova photo (attached) and it looks like it can take either voltage/frequency.

It's a standard linear supply (rather than a universal voltage switching supply) so some (dealer performed) configuration will be necessary to suit the local supply if different from the UK. The labelling is pretty standard for regulation purposes across different markets. 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

 If you are interested see if you can arrange a factory visit and talk to the chief designer, you might also be able to listen to them in the audition room. I heard the Uniti series drive Sopra 1 speakers there.

Fantastic idea! Didn't know you could do that. With the wonderful train system in the UK that would be easy to get to. Always surprises me that the English complain about their public transit. For visiting Americans it's amazing by comparison to what we have with Amtrak in the states.

Hungryhalibut posted:

The 300 won't work without its dedicated power supply, which brings the cost to about £7,500. Listing the PS separately is a bit stupid if you ask me. 

The Nova includes the new streaming architecture, which allows you to use google cast to send music to the player. 

This may or may not be important. 

As others have said, remember that you will have to pay to have the boxes converted to 110V from the UK 230V. 

Ah! Now I see it. Sneaky. That puts the 300 out for now. Google cast isn't important, but airplay would be nice for the lovely people I share the house with. 

If I'm reading the back panel correctly the only thing I have to do is change the fuse, and going from 230 to 110 maybe not even that. Is that correct? If not, anyone know how much this costs to do?

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

However despite that the holy grail and the core Naim DNA so we were told  is still seen as decoupled source, pre, poweramp and powersupply

I think that along with all the other comments bring everything down to two options (just realized the prices include VAT which I'd get refunded):

1) Naim Uniti Nova + NAP300DR ((£4,099+£4,539+£3,130)/1.2=£9,807)

2) Naim NAC-N 272 + NAP300DR ((£3,469+£4,539+£3,130)/1.2=£9,282)

Slightly over my price range, but doesn't it always happen that way? Option 1 has the latest streaming architecture, and could start out with no PA. Option 2 can be upgraded with an external PS for the 272 down the road if desired. I need to know whether the streaming and preamp on the Nova are as good or better than the 272... A trip to Salisbury might be in order.

perizoqui posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

However despite that the holy grail and the core Naim DNA so we were told  is still seen as decoupled source, pre, poweramp and powersupply

I think that along with all the other comments bring everything down to two options (just realized the prices include VAT which I'd get refunded):

1) Naim Uniti Nova + NAP300DR ((£4,099+£4,539+£3,130)/1.2=£9,807)

2) Naim NAC-N 272 + NAP300DR ((£3,469+£4,539+£3,130)/1.2=£9,282)

Slightly over my price range, but doesn't it always happen that way? Option 1 has the latest streaming architecture, and could start out with no PA. Option 2 can be upgraded with an external PS for the 272 down the road if desired. I need to know whether the streaming and preamp on the Nova are as good or better than the 272... A trip to Salisbury might be in order.

 

Please remember that the actual sound is largerly determined by the pre-amp section. Ipersonally would not add a NAP 300DR to a back of an integrated player. It just does not feel right.

Secondly you may have a bit of a problem connecting the two together - Nova has only one DIN pre-out connection and NAP 300 requires two (one per each channels). You could of course run some sort of custom cable, but.... i

N272 is designed to handle NAP300DR easily on the other hand, with two DIN pre-outs.

From your posts above I detect a sligth sense that you're trying to buy the equipment from a price list, rather than actually listening to it first. Which in my experience is not a good idea at all.....

Adam, the N272 is an integrated player... and you have to add a poweramp. Seriously unless you have heard the new Uniti series and their new techniques and architectures don't try and jump to any conclusions, they are quite different I feel to what has gone before... very impressive indeed. Naim also recommend adding a Naim poweramp to the Uniti series if you wish... they were designed with this in mind. This is how you upgrade the Unitis rather than using powersupplies which is how you would potentially upgrade Classic series. Your comment could be construed as a bit like don't add a powersupply to the N272 as it doesn't feel right as it's an integrated player.. and clearly many people enjoy the benefit.

S

Adam Zielinski posted: 

Please remember that the actual sound is largerly determined by the pre-amp section. Ipersonally would not add a NAP 300DR to a back of an integrated player. It just does not feel right.

Secondly you may have a bit of a problem connecting the two together - Nova has only one DIN pre-out connection and NAP 300 requires two (one per each channels). You could of course run some sort of custom cable, but.... i

N272 is designed to handle NAP300DR easily on the other hand, with two DIN pre-outs.

From your posts above I detect a sligth sense that you're trying to buy the equipment from a price list, rather than actually listening to it first. Which in my experience is not a good idea at all.....

Hi Adam. Not trying to buy from a price list, just trying to narrow down my choices without going over budget. I've written to Naim to ask whether they feel the streaming section and preamp on the Nova is better/same/worse than that on the 272. That will ultimately determine which way I go. But, as many have advised, I'll try to get a listen before buying. The trick is that there's nowhere to do that in Indiana, plus I'd feel bad leaning on a local dealer (if there was one) and then buying at almost half price in the UK. I can listen in the UK, but it won't be my speakers or my room... so in the end I will have to buy without a true audition. So the recommendations of folks here and at Naim support are very important I think.

Wouldn't mind making a custom cable for the Nova to 300DR, there seem to be a few online as well, but the connections seem pretty straightforward either from the DIN out on the Nova or from the RCAs next to it. I get the sense that using the RCA is Naim audio heresy though

Thanks for your advice, greatly appreciated.

Even if the streamer bit of the Nova is as good as that of the 272, it looks different from a 250 or 300. If I was spending that sort of money I wouldn't want things that don't match. The Nova is designed as an all in one. Yes you can add a poweramp, but that's surely just a way of upgrading one step at a time to separates. 

Knowing Naim, when you ask them the question they will say 'listen for yourself'. They don't see their role as advising on what to buy - that's what dealers are for. 

I'd take a trip to Oxford Audio Consultants. They can demo the kit you are interested in (and some other non Naim options if needed at that price point) which will help you make up your mind. You've got a healthy budget and some interesting options to make the most of your Focal's 

James

Hungryhalibut posted:

Knowing Naim, when you ask them the question they will say 'listen for yourself'. They don't see their role as advising on what to buy - that's what dealers are for. 

Just heard back from Naim minutes ago. I asked them:

If I had to choose between:
1) Naim Uniti Nova + NAP300DR
2) Naim NAC-N 272 + NAP300DR 
Which would you recommend? 

sales@naimaudio.com replied:

"My choice would be NAC272 with NAP300"

james n posted:

I'd take a trip to Oxford Audio Consultants. They can demo the kit you are interested in (and some other non Naim options if needed at that price point) which will help you make up your mind. You've got a healthy budget and some interesting options to make the most of your Focal's 

James

 

Agreed, I've been there before. Very helpful guys. I'll email ahead.

Well there you go, that's what I recommended previously. I'm glad Naim are on message. 

perizoqui posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Knowing Naim, when you ask them the question they will say 'listen for yourself'. They don't see their role as advising on what to buy - that's what dealers are for. 

Just heard back from Naim minutes ago. I asked them:

If I had to choose between:
1) Naim Uniti Nova + NAP300DR
2) Naim NAC-N 272 + NAP300DR 
Which would you recommend? 

sales@naimaudio.com replied:

"My choice would be NAC272 with NAP300"

Yes indeed, the Nova is not currently available, and the physical aesthetics are different between the Uniti and the current Classic series amps. I think if you wanted a Star or Nova it would be best to listen natively first. As I said the new Uniti series is designed in part to be an alternate choice to the Classic series. Naim told me the new Uniti series were not designed to neccessarily go on Hi-Fi racks such as Fraim or other, where as the Classic series definitely is..

Hungryhalibut posted:

Well there you go, that's what I recommended previously. I'm glad Naim are on message. 

They must have read your reply on this forum

Wish they'd said why they made that recommendation. Anyway thank you all for your feedback. It's immensely helpful. If I learn more about the architecture differences between Nova and 272 I'll report back. They both seem to use the same Sharc ADSP and the same Burr Brown PCM1791A DAC. I'll keep digging. And I'll listen when next in Oxford.

Aesthetically I like the Nova much better than the 272. I'm not sure I agree with you about a mismatch with the 300. They're both 432 mm wide, so I think one would look quite good on the shelf above the other.

Choices choices. This is fun.

Yes, they do use some of the same components as the standard streamers ( Texas Instruments DACs and Analog Devices DSP engines, but it's the architectures that are different. Those who have been streaming over the internet on the Classic series or who get dropouts on wifi, or SQ differences between different media servers  etc might recognise the benefit of this.

Uniti as far as I see it is aimed at an all in one market and you're talking of going half way between the two. I get the feeling people are expecting too much from the uniti products. 

The 272 is where the serious Naim systems start opening up for us. 

I had a 300dr paired with a Superuniti for a while. It was good but it was always a temporary thing until I upgraded to a dedicated source and preamp. 

Drewy, I thought that until I heard the new series at the invitation of Naim. They are seriously good especially the Nova to my ears (and several other pairs of ears who are also on this forum), but it is Naim Reference class in their words ... you can see why Naim are apparently mightily impressed and possibly surprised with it... I hope the production versions are the same and it wasn't a freak we heard

Just found this:

https://www.naimaudio.com/site...%20Naim_Focal_LR.pdf

Quite relevant as it's with my speakers...