552 scary investment

cheeselet posted.

So it could be an "investment ".

I always think it is, even if it loses money. The return you get is musical enjoyment. 

You can never get that from money stuck in a bank! 

I think you have simply defined consumerism.. not investing..

greekspec2 posted:

Emre posted:

Richieroo posted:

Hi I have been enjoying my 272 with 555ps into my Nap500dr..... I now have a chance of getting a 2 year old 552dr .... it will be a real push for me to afford.... my plans are to eventually replace the 272 with an nds... But in the meanwhile use the 272 into the 552 until funds permit an nds.....

I have read all the threads on the 552 .... nobody seems to regret it.... I am still struggling internally  with the concept of a pre amp at this value..... the 272 with the 555 is that good.... ulp.... I think I need some reassurance.....

272/555/500 is good.....

i am sure 552/NDS will be better but bit very diminished returns.... if you can afford without skipping a meal or two, why not...

and when 372 will come out and beats the crap out of 552/NDS, will you cry?    just wait... spend some money on fancy cables, switches or add a bardo brinkmann to your 272...

or  since you started a 500 road.... you are buying a classic at the end.

Emre I'm glad you still have hope for a N372....I lost confidence that I will never get built

There might be a 372 some day.. but it still almost certainly won't outperform an NDS/552 or NDS/252 for that matter for reasons Naim can articulate better than I. But in that timeline we will probably have the NDS2.. and so our choice will be NDS2/252 or NDS2/552.. I suspect the NACs will be with us for a decade to come... yes there might be superficial changes like new casing and Zigbee automation... but the core of the NACs I suspect will be largely the same.

If you go for the 552 then It looks like you are heading towards an NDS (as you mention) to make the most of the amplifier. I'm sure it'll all sound fantastic, but have you heard the complete setup you are aiming for before you start on a pretty expensive buying spree ?

greekspec2 posted:

Emre posted:

Richieroo posted:

Hi I have been enjoying my 272 with 555ps into my Nap500dr..... I now have a chance of getting a 2 year old 552dr .... it will be a real push for me to afford.... my plans are to eventually replace the 272 with an nds... But in the meanwhile use the 272 into the 552 until funds permit an nds.....

I have read all the threads on the 552 .... nobody seems to regret it.... I am still struggling internally  with the concept of a pre amp at this value..... the 272 with the 555 is that good.... ulp.... I think I need some reassurance.....

272/555/500 is good.....

i am sure 552/NDS will be better but bit very diminished returns.... if you can afford without skipping a meal or two, why not...

and when 372 will come out and beats the crap out of 552/NDS, will you cry?    just wait... spend some money on fancy cables, switches or add a bardo brinkmann to your 272...

or  since you started a 500 road.... you are buying a classic at the end.

Emre I'm glad you still have hope for a N372....I lost confidence that I will never get built

it is like an IQ tests...

Please fill the gap

172, 272,...

a) NDS2 b) Proton c) 273 d) 372 

Of course it's an investment - an investment in a level of music reproduction that is pretty much unchallenged.  Unfortunately it's an investment that I can't stretch to.

Has anybody heard the effect of placing a 552 between n272 and power amplifiers.?

@ Rich

""Hi I have been enjoying my 272 with 555ps into my Nap500dr..... I now have a chance of getting a 2 year old 552dr .... it will be a real push for me to afford.... my plans are to eventually replace the 272 with an nds... But in the meanwhile use the 272 into the 552 until funds permit an nds.....""

Sounds like an end game to me!

Nothing but the best!

I recall an Audio Reviewer, stating there are only two types of components worth owning.

The Best, and very close to the Best, for a lot less.

Clearly, you have chosen the former!

Meanwhile, enjoy your Music!

Allante93!

MangoMonkey posted:

The op started down the slippery slope the day he bought the 500. There's no coming back now. NDS/552 are next. In the order in which they can be procured.

i would recommend the 272/xps/250 as a reasonable system - and call it a day - but that can't happen anymore

nap 500 can go with other pre....naim is less closed than before. 

Parlee-king posted:

Has anybody heard the effect of placing a 552 between n272 and power amplifiers.?

 

exactly what I was looking to do

Parlee-king posted:

Has anybody heard the effect of placing a 552 between n272 and power amplifiers.?

 

Remember that nothing can add quality - it can only take away less.

Phil

Phil Harris posted:

Parlee-king posted:

Has anybody heard the effect of placing a 552 between n272 and power amplifiers.?

 

Remember that nothing can add quality - it can only take away less.

Phil

That statement is true, but it does not describe what a better Pre actually does.

If you replace the volume control and gain stage of the N272 and use it a a source-only via line-out stage then you are replacing the volume and gain stage with another Pre and have to consider the two different systems:

NAC N272 using its built-in volume and following gain stage vs NAC N272 line-out (bypassing internal volume and gain) and separate Pre.

So that is the comparison. I tried bypassing the Pre and using a source directly into the Power Amp(s) several times over the years and it always lost performance in terms of control, clarity and bass-extension. I could give reasons why I think that would be the case, but a demo with an open-mind will provide the answers. Does it sound better? Am I enjoying the music more? Do I want to use my HiFi more or less?

I went through this with the 552 purchase and again with the S1 Pre demo and purchase. I listened to other ways of omitting the Pre from the system and they all had the usual signature qualities I've gotten used to hearing of sounding over-lean with initially impressive top-level clarity, but no real low-level extraction and rendition of detail or bass weight and control and losing command of the music. I want the music to just 'be in my room'  and it seems that the way the system effects its 0v reference 'earth' and the qualities of the buffering, gain and volume control implementation set a determinant on the system capabilities possible when adding sources and power amps and speakers that cannot be made-up for later.

When I used to design analogue instrumentation amplifiers in a previous life, then strange things like knowing what the 'earth' really was and that a long snaking wire that navigates itself to some 'ground' somewhere presents a huge source of low-level noise and an high impedance over certain frequencies - the real dynamic 0v 'earth' for a single-ended system is the mass of the case the first earth-strap is attached to. There is a lot more - but a demo is what you need even without entertaining your mind that there may be reasons why some things do the job better. It should also be noted that for professional (non-domestic) use, then balanced signals are used to largely obviate many of these issues when feeding signals between equipment, and that the S1 Pre does gave balanced input and output options - which I'm not in position to use as of right now, as the rest of my equipment is 'single-ended' needing a system 0v reference, which the Pre and any good Pre will provide.

DB.

well if you want to own and listen to the best, you should buy the 552, it is very special

and then trade the 272 for the NDS as you already have the Power supply.

you can afford as you are contemplating it, right? 

I happen to have a 552 in my stereo and it does help to make the collective sound great.  But as an aside, truth be known, most of my music listening is in the kitchen via a long serving Onkyo mini system (Wharfdale speakers perched on top of a rather tall fridge!).  Cr*p set up but does me fine for background listening.

The 552 is great, I really liked the 252 which preceded it and I'm sure the Statement would blow the 552 into the proverbial weeds.  But my glass half empty sense check I pretend to run through my head when deciding to spend/ overspend is imagining borrowing the money from the cast of Goodfellas and contemplating missing a repayment!!!

I've no hesitation in recommending a 552, I just stress the importance of not placing yourself in a sticky financial wicket.  I don't reckon any hobbies are worth that.  Other people are much less risk averse.  The OP should decide where he or she sits on the risk profile.  Good luck with your decision making!!

Peter

I went for a used NDS and a DR and serviced used 555ps. The saving sort of justified my new 552. A second hand 552 is not a bad idea, my new one is going to take a while to get to where the 2008 one I demoed is, it really was so much better than my new one ( though it is showing signs of brilliance)

The 552 I hope to purchase is just under two years old .. dr model with powerline . It should be nicely run in ..... and at the price I am paying I think I could resell at minimal loss. I have never bought naim  equipment from new ... the quality is bomb proof. I will let you guys know how I get on when it lands....

I find buying Naim a bit like buying cars... if you are going to buy from new it's best to plan on keeping for its life or for a long time or have a pre-arrangement agreed with your retailer.. if you think it's going to be more a short term arrangement or a 'fill-in' I find it's best to get used where a lot of the initial depreciation has already occurred and you can then resell should you wish with minimal loss. My Naim is a mixture of new and used. My oldest 'new' Naim is 13 years old.

Simon

I also find naim users are really careful and care for their kit my nap500 was an early one but was immaculate....and still sounded fantastic.

You couldn't be more on par Simon, I titter when folks say they're "investing" in Naim gear. An investment anticipates a financial return. Audio gear only ever depreciates. An expenditure for sure.

Richieroo posted:

The 552 I hope to purchase is just under two years old .. dr model with powerline . It should be nicely run in ..... and at the price I am paying I think I could resell at minimal loss. I have never bought naim  equipment from new ... the quality is bomb proof. I will let you guys know how I get on when it lands....

Congratulations Mr Richieroo! As you rightly point out, if at some stage you need the cash you'll be able to sell the 552 with little loss (It's what I always tell SWMBO when I lash out on summat pricey in the Naim line). Bet you don't though!

Richieroo, As you are buying secondhand I assume you are installing it yourself? Set up, positioning and lead dressing are important. Using the 552/500 you should hear the tiniest of tweaks, so attention to detail setting up is really important.

Once you have the 552 then the nds/555 is a must. I found the nds sounded so much better than the ndx (which already sounded great), which in turn is supposed to be better than the streamer in the 272.

I used ndx/555/ndac in various combinations over a few months before trying an nds with the 555dr. The improvement was instant and substantial. The whole system became far more natural sounding and the music seemed to flow effortlessly, rather than sounding slightly forced by comparison.

joerand posted:

You couldn't be more on par Simon, I titter when folks say they're "investing" in Naim gear. An investment anticipates a financial return. Audio gear only ever depreciates. An expenditure for sure.

Unless it's a Nait 2. Was £250, now £700. Or Linn Kan 2 stands.  Were £55, now £150.

I use the word 'invest' quite a lot. It's simply a way of saying 'bought'. Today I've invested in a new toilet brush. £4 from John Lewis.  It won't go up in value of course, in reality it's money down the pan.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Today I've invested in a new toilet brush. £4 from John Lewis.  It won't go up in value of course, in reality it's money down the pan.

That's a silly comparison Mr Halibut. It fair made me bristle.

Great quip hh.... I am under no illusion the hi fi and investment really don't go hand in hand...my jap av reciever is worth zip .... so naim in comparison is great....

but how much did the Japan receiver cost you ? 

Talk about service costs, my Yamaha HT receiver needed a service (capacitor change), cost 40 GBP.

FWIW I use to consider the purchase of home entertainment as true investment. Home entertainment has a pay-off against the cost of going out to the movie theater, live music and entertainment. It also allows for quick relaxation and possible mind rest or re-energizing for greater quality of life and.. productivity at work.

Chag -