552 scary investment

Chris Bell posted:

If I were to start my Naim adventure over again, I'd put the big money into the 552 first.  This goes against the source first theory, but the 552 makes the most of every source rather than showing the faults.  I found this quite different from the 72/102/82/52 preamps I owned in the past.  I think a NDX/552/250 system (for instance) would be a very musical and satisfactory hi-fi in a way that a NDS/282/250 would not be.  There's something magical about the 552.  

The 282/250 sounds very enjoyable in my system. But I can understand the 552/250 will render the latter to sound broken in comparison.

ryder. posted:

Chris Bell posted:

If I were to start my Naim adventure over again, I'd put the big money into the 552 first.  This goes against the source first theory, but the 552 makes the most of every source rather than showing the faults.  I found this quite different from the 72/102/82/52 preamps I owned in the past.  I think a NDX/552/250 system (for instance) would be a very musical and satisfactory hi-fi in a way that a NDS/282/250 would not be.  There's something magical about the 552.  

The 282/250 sounds very enjoyable in my system. But I can understand the 552/250 will render the latter to sound broken in comparison.

No it won't.  I had a 282/SC/250 for some years and thoroughly enjoyed it.  Of course my current 552DR/300DR is better, as it should be for the price, but if I had to go back to a 282/SC/250 tomorrow I know I would still enjoy my music collection.

I think some folks here are missing the point of my post.  The source first dogma does not recognize the importance of the preamp and how it preserves and passes on source to the amp.  Having owned a large swath of Naim preamps over the years I've heard first hand the interaction between source and preamp. One of my early systems was a CDS/72/HiCap/180.  I followed the source first approach without fully understanding the importance of a good preamp. It was not until I purchased the 552 did I understand how it preserves the best attributes of a source without highlighting the faults like the 72/102/82 preamps I owned in the past.  This is why I can enjoy my iPhone or 128k mp3 stream.  The 552 is like a giant pipe allowing everything good to pass through.  

This is not to diminish the importance of the source, I get it.  I wanted to point out how good the 552 is and if I were to do it over again I'd consider a different path.  

Of course when it comes to product development Naim haven't always followed source first.  The 552/500 came before the CD555 and we are still waiting for a 500 series streamer and of course a Statement source. 

At a more modest level, when I put a CDX2 on a 122x/150x, replacing a much more modestly priced CD player and DAC (both at the time recent models), the difference it made was well below my expectations and I was disappointed. When I substituted a 282/HiCap/250.2, everything was significantly improved including a modest FM/DAB tuner which matched the original CD player/DAC. When I later substituted a Supercap for the HiCap, all the sources were improved. Same when the 252 went in.

From that experience, I think I can appreciate the point Chris is making. (I don’t subscribe to ‘source first’ above all else.)

I'll take a 552/250 vs a 282/500 with the same source any day of the week.. I also agree that the preamp should be considered as part of the "source"chain. 

ATB,

Mark

MDS posted:

No it won't.  I had a 282/SC/250 for some years and thoroughly enjoyed it.  Of course my current 552DR/300DR is better, as it should be for the price, but if I had to go back to a 282/SC/250 tomorrow I know I would still enjoy my music collection.

Thanks MDS. That is reassuring. I only have the Hicap DR on the 282/250DR and I have no more urge to look elsewhere as it all just sounds sublime at the moment. Oh well, another part of the reason is the funds in my bank account are almost depleted after the black box purchase last year (all new).

Enjoyr your 552DR/300DR. I bet it sounds wonderful.

The NAC 552 IMHO is the last of the old-school Naim preamps from the late 90s / early 00s (released in 2002). There will eventually be plenty of used units as some owners migrate upward to Statement preamps, within the next few years, so keep that in mind.

The sentiments posted above regarding the changing priorities of source-first vs. a better-quality preamp should be seen IMHO in the light of the massive improvements made in digital technology (and electronics design, testing and manufacturing in general) over the last thirty years; voltage gain is still as fragile as it always was, whereas digital sources (and delivery) have largely democratized source signal quality at the lower and middle ends of the hi-fi market.

This is the perfect justification for a high-performance preamp.

Surely it makes more sense to DR and recap my 552 than to step up to the Statement Pre?

Skip posted:

Surely it makes more sense to DR and recap my 552 than to step up to the Statement Pre?

Does it?

That's really a determination that a decent demo can only provide.

A Statement demo, I'm sure,  would be like test driving the Turbo.  Hard to go back to normal after that.

Richieroo posted:

Hi I have been enjoying my 272 with 555ps into my Nap500dr..... I now have a chance of getting a 2 year old 552dr .... it will be a real push for me to afford.... my plans are to eventually replace the 272 with an nds... But in the meanwhile use the 272 into the 552 until funds permit an nds.....

I have read all the threads on the 552 .... nobody seems to regret it.... I am still struggling internally  with the concept of a pre amp at this value..... the 272 with the 555 is that good.... ulp.... I think I need some reassurance.....

I wouldn't do it. Imho analog only preamps are obsolete. The 272 with a power supply is a great preamp, you can control it with your iPhone, the streaming capabilities introduce tou easily to a ton on new music. Maybe when they come up with a 572 that would be a good idea. I would spend the money elsewhere. Core into a 272 directly via coax is something to compare - many I have talked with and respect their judgement think this is better SQ than UPnP nds and is a lot cheaper and simpler. Just my opinion but you will be getting marginal gains at great expense on the streaming side going that way. I would wait for a flagship integrated streamer and spend that significant investment elsewhere and improve on what you have. YMMV the 552 is certainly a great preamp - it is just not a direction I would go

Isn't the Statement analog only?  I don't see any digital inputs.

With my unlimited respect for David Dever, I appreciate the recommendation of a demo of the Statement vs. the 552DR.  The price differential is Statement $90k, Recap and DR under $9k with shipping.  My inclination, being of actual and not hypothetical wallet, is to DR and Recap my 552, hope for the best, and snag a Statement NAC when they come to Audiogon.  

I've done the 552 vs S1 comparison.  The S1 is simply in another universe and it only took a couple of notes to hear the difference.  A remarkable achievement. Sadly I have to live with my 552DR. #firstworldproblems  

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Of course when it comes to product development Naim haven't always followed source first.  The 552/500 came before the CD555 and we are still waiting for a 500 series streamer and of course a Statement source. 

We already have the Klimax LP12

DUPREE posted:

Richieroo posted:

Hi I have been enjoying my 272 with 555ps into my Nap500dr..... I now have a chance of getting a 2 year old 552dr .... it will be a real push for me to afford.... my plans are to eventually replace the 272 with an nds... But in the meanwhile use the 272 into the 552 until funds permit an nds.....

I have read all the threads on the 552 .... nobody seems to regret it.... I am still struggling internally  with the concept of a pre amp at this value..... the 272 with the 555 is that good.... ulp.... I think I need some reassurance.....

I wouldn't do it. Imho analog only preamps are obsolete. The 272 with a power supply is a great preamp, you can control it with your iPhone, the streaming capabilities introduce tou easily to a ton on new music. Maybe when they come up with a 572 that would be a good idea. I would spend the money elsewhere. Core into a 272 directly via coax is something to compare - many I have talked with and respect their judgement think this is better SQ than UPnP nds and is a lot cheaper and simpler. Just my opinion but you will be getting marginal gains at great expense on the streaming side going that way. I would wait for a flagship integrated streamer and spend that significant investment elsewhere and improve on what you have. YMMV the 552 is certainly a great preamp - it is just not a direction I would go

What utter tosh.   The 272 is a great option but doesn't make analogue pre-amps obsolete.   Did the invention of the plane make the ship obsolete,, or the car make the train redundant.  

The 272 is a great product, but even I wouldn't say it can match, or come close, to a 552. I suspect that most of the cost of the 272 is the analogue preamp, which is what it really is, just with a streamer and Dac in the box as well. 

Until the 572 hits the shops, assuming it can beat a 552 fed by an NDS with twin 555PS, I'll just have to slum it

Oh the pain.

Having carried out a head to head trial of the 272 and 552, at home, I have to agree with HH.

The 272 is, at it's price point, a very capable, and value for money piece of kit, and if I'd arrived there, as the result of an upgrade, I'd have been very happy indeed.

As it was, the 552 showed it's superiority quite clearly, which, given the price difference, was only to be expected.

"We already have the Klimax LP12 "

Let's hope it isn't premature!

Harry posted:

Until the 572 hits the shops, assuming it can beat a 552 fed by an NDS with twin 555PS, I'll just have to slum it

Oh the pain.

Harry, just keep taking the medication I'm sure the good Doctor's down at Naim are working on a cure?

The meds are working a treat.

Lovely.

I don't think anyone contends that the 552 isn't a significantly better preamp. However it's only as good as it's weakest link i.e. the source. A 272 as your source into it will not sound better than a 272 on it's own.  If you have a turntable it would be an improvement for your analog source. 552 and NDS would be better for sure, but that is two huge purchases and I am really currious to see how the tech and OS from the new Uniti trickle up into whatever their next gen of "Classic" or separates streamer. The writing is on the wall that the current architecture is on the way out and the NDS is the oldest of the legacy streamers. I would imagine/hope that some cool new digital devices come out based on the new hardware/software architechture they have developed.

DUPREE posted:

I don't think anyone contends that the 552 isn't a significantly better preamp. However it's only as good as it's weakest link i.e. the source. A 272 as your source into it will not sound better than a 272 on it's own. 

You'd get a big improvement by putting the 272 into the 552 as a source. Obviousy not an end result though as you wouldn't be getting the most value for money out of the 552.

Obviously .... I will only be using 272 in the interim for a while.... I am hoping that there will be a good improvement - as I should be bypassing the 272 preamp and volume control (chip ladder) ..... I will either go the NDS route or sell both 555ps and 272 and get a Dave....