Who prefers a non-naim streamer and why?

I auditioned a Linn streamer against a Naim when my nephew was buying three years ago. To my ears the Linn was better - though my nephew disagreed.

As my Linn Classik has recently gone 'pop' I've ordered an Atom after selling off a stack of old Olive kit.

My decision is based more on Naim's support of legacy products, than any great allegiance to their sound. Time will tell if I've made a good choice.

The delay on the product's launch concerns me greatly, if I'm honest....

Flexibility. 

Tom-in-Amsterdam posted:

I have been pondering about upgrading my mac mini solution to either a NDX/ND5XS+hugo or to look into other brands. As luck would have it, I missed an opportunity to buy some nice vivid audio K1's, but the seller showcased the Linn Akurate DS and I must say I was impressed.

Sound wise I could not make a comparison as for too many variables (different speakers, pre etc) but the ease of use was hard to ignore. Tidal was easy, space optimisation and rumours of having Roon integrated soon. 

Having read quite a bit into Linn ADS and KLS Klimax I'm getting a bit curious. Any naimees that use these streamers?

 

I don't have a Linn but I am demoing the Klimax Exakt this summer. Can't wait to get rid of all these wires.... I'll post my thoughts when I get back from Cali'.

Tom-in-Amsterdam posted:

I have been pondering about upgrading my mac mini solution to either a NDX/ND5XS+hugo or to look into other brands. As luck would have it, I missed an opportunity to buy some nice vivid audio K1's, but the seller showcased the Linn Akurate DS and I must say I was impressed.

Sound wise I could not make a comparison as for too many variables (different speakers, pre etc) but the ease of use was hard to ignore. Tidal was easy, space optimisation and rumours of having Roon integrated soon. 

Having read quite a bit into Linn ADS and KLS Klimax I'm getting a bit curious. Any naimees that use these streamers?

 

Also... Don't put that power supply on a NDX.

I did a Sonore MicroRendu with a Schiit Gungnir Multibit DAC. I'm at $2,300 USD for the combo and love it. 

I flat out could not afford a Naim Streamer.  A ND5XS is like $4,000 USD. And there was no choice below that.  I did try a Qute and can tell you the MicroRendu is a better source to the DAC than the Qute  

Its only controlled from a tablet. I use the LUMIN App. It supports Tidal (through the LUMIN app). 

Kevin Richardson posted:

Tom-in-Amsterdam posted:

I have been pondering about upgrading my mac mini solution to either a NDX/ND5XS+hugo or to look into other brands. As luck would have it, I missed an opportunity to buy some nice vivid audio K1's, but the seller showcased the Linn Akurate DS and I must say I was impressed.

Sound wise I could not make a comparison as for too many variables (different speakers, pre etc) but the ease of use was hard to ignore. Tidal was easy, space optimisation and rumours of having Roon integrated soon. 

Having read quite a bit into Linn ADS and KLS Klimax I'm getting a bit curious. Any naimees that use these streamers?

 

I don't have a Linn but I am demoing the Klimax Exakt this summer. Can't wait to get rid of all these wires.... I'll post my thoughts when I get back from Cali'.

 just curious to understand - why would the Klimax Exakt help you get rid of wires? [@mention:30428924477710615]

Manu68 posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

Tom-in-Amsterdam posted:

I have been pondering about upgrading my mac mini solution to either a NDX/ND5XS+hugo or to look into other brands. As luck would have it, I missed an opportunity to buy some nice vivid audio K1's, but the seller showcased the Linn Akurate DS and I must say I was impressed.

Sound wise I could not make a comparison as for too many variables (different speakers, pre etc) but the ease of use was hard to ignore. Tidal was easy, space optimisation and rumours of having Roon integrated soon. 

Having read quite a bit into Linn ADS and KLS Klimax I'm getting a bit curious. Any naimees that use these streamers?

 

I don't have a Linn but I am demoing the Klimax Exakt this summer. Can't wait to get rid of all these wires.... I'll post my thoughts when I get back from Cali'.

 just curious to understand - why would the Klimax Exakt help you get rid of wires? [@mention:30428924477710615]

One box, 2 speakers, 3 Ethernet cables and 3 power cords. No analog cables in their system. I just hate thinking "Hmmm my system might sound better with those SL wires". My current "simple" setup has 3 speaker wires, 5 power cords, 1 digital IC, 4 analog ICS and an Ethernet cable.

I am interested in upgrading my HiFi but the Naim path seems a bit uncertain and too expensive for me. (The 500 level pre/power is close to $60k in USA) Combine the expense with the need for meticulous "cable dressing" and I'm left with 0 interest.

The Linn system feels like a "bargain" considering it a 6 way active system with no need for my excellent but large Rel sub. 

I have no idea if I'll enjoy the "Linn" sound but the simplicity and technology appeals to both my futurist and minimalist sensibilities.

I'll soon have all the answers.... If it's half as amazing as I'm told, I'll just need to resign myself to eating only ramen noodles and driving my Volvo for another 10 years. If it sucks then I'll know my current SN2 was money well spent and will continue to enjoy it for years.

thanks Kevin, this is really cool to know. I will be looking into this set-up! a "boxless" config is very compelling to me.

For me, it is not a matter of preferring non-Naim per se, but preferring certain alternatives to certain Naims.

Mac Mini (headless and dedicated, including dedicated USB bus) running Audirvana (fully optimised) into Hugo through a USB/SPDIF isolator/converter (Gustard U12) sounded better to me than bare ND5XS as front end into Hugo, which in turn sounded better than ND5XS+XP5XS. Better = greater clarity and more naturalness.

So, I changed my ND5XS+XP5XS to ND5XS+Hugo, and later changed ND5XS for MM/Audirvana/Gustard/HUgo, and now have MM/AUd/Dave. I also compared MM/Aud with Melco N1A into Dave (listening via Bryston 4BSst2 and PMC Fact 12), and the two sources were indistinguishable, however it was only a short session not an extended comparative assessment.

Innocent Bystander posted:

For me, it is not a matter of preferring non-Naim per se, but preferring certain alternatives to certain Naims.

Mac Mini (headless and dedicated, including dedicated USB bus) running Audirvana (fully optimised) into Hugo through a USB/SPDIF isolator/converter (Gustard U12) sounded better to me than bare ND5XS as front end into Hugo, which in turn sounded better than ND5XS+XP5XS. Better = greater clarity and more naturalness.

So, I changed my ND5XS+XP5XS to ND5XS+Hugo, and later changed ND5XS for MM/Audirvana/Gustard/HUgo, and now have MM/AUd/Dave. I also compared MM/Aud with Melco N1A into Dave (listening via Bryston 4BSst2 and PMC Fact 12), and the two sources were indistinguishable, however it was only a short session not an extended comparative assessment.

i am very surprised than you found mac mini/audirvana with chord dave indistinguishable from melco n1a with dave.  It is the contrary of all reviews i could find on the net. This is why users of mac mini put big linear ps/ stillpoints on their mac mini to have a sound quality near  a good server/nas as the melco.  But perhaps i miss something in your configuration?

Keler Pierre posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

For me, it is not a matter of preferring non-Naim per se, but preferring certain alternatives to certain Naims.

Mac Mini (headless and dedicated, including dedicated USB bus) running Audirvana (fully optimised) into Hugo through a USB/SPDIF isolator/converter (Gustard U12) sounded better to me than bare ND5XS as front end into Hugo, which in turn sounded better than ND5XS+XP5XS. Better = greater clarity and more naturalness.

So, I changed my ND5XS+XP5XS to ND5XS+Hugo, and later changed ND5XS for MM/Audirvana/Gustard/HUgo, and now have MM/AUd/Dave. I also compared MM/Aud with Melco N1A into Dave (listening via Bryston 4BSst2 and PMC Fact 12), and the two sources were indistinguishable, however it was only a short session not an extended comparative assessment.

i am very surprised than you found mac mini/audirvana with chord dave indistinguishable from melco n1a with dave.  It is the contrary of all reviews i could find on the net. This is why users of mac mini put big linear ps/ stillpoints on their mac mini to have a sound quality near  a good server/nas as the melco.  But perhaps i miss something in your configuration?

Interesting, as I have only come across one other comparison which was a different system Including DAC (but I have bpnever searched). As stated my comparison was into Dave, which does have very good noise rejection, and was played without preamp direct into power amp (Bryston 4Bsst2) and PMC Fact12 - other systems could of course sound differently. And as stated, mine was a quick comparison: it was just A-B swapping back a couple of times, not extended listening, so only observing any immediately apparent differences not subtleties that mightbcome out under long term comparisons. Mac Mini is late 2012 i5 16GB and internal SSD store,, I can't remember the OS (the one current in about a year ago), headless and dedicated to that function with dedicated usb bus assigned to that, Audivana fully optimised.

auralic mini digital out is a great unit ,plus a tip-top app as well very close to my ndx digital out.

Tom-in-Amsterdam posted:

I have been pondering about upgrading my mac mini solution to either a NDX/ND5XS+hugo or to look into other brands.

If you've got money to burn you can do that. Otherwise just add a Hugo to your Mac mini and be done. There are some here who actually prefer this combo to the NDS/555PS front end. One sold his NDS and went for the Hugo.

As always, of course, you pays your money and you takes your choice!

Linn Akurate DSM, i.e. streamer and pre-amp

The reasons: When I started streaming with a Majik DS in early 2009, Naim had only the HDX, which was way too expensive for me. I've stayed with Linn streamers since then. I like their sound, their continuous advances in technology (Dynamik PSU, new clock, Exakt (have no Exakt system myself), Katalyst (though not available on Akurate level)), the future-proof platform, the features (Songcast, Space Optimisation, Qobuz/Tidal to name a few), and a box count of 1 leaves more room for Naim amps in the active system.

[@mention:1566878604016895] you mix naim amps with a Linn streamer?? I'd have assumed this is not meant to be working well together...?

I love the Roon - microrendu - Hugo combination.   Works faultlessly, sounds terrific and also means Roon can control other systems - Squeezebox, Airplay etc.  I've not compared it to the Linn and Naim streamers directly but I'd question spending large amounts of money on digital sources that will probably be superseded in a few years time.  It would be nice to see a respected journalist undertaking a comparative review of these products, across the price range but suspect the uncomfortable truth is there may not be much in it.  Sticking with separate streamer and DAC also allows for more incremental upgrades in future.

Manu68 posted:

[@mention:1566878604016895] you mix naim amps with a Linn streamer?? I'd have assumed this is not meant to be working well together...?

I've read too that other preamps and Naim are not supposed to work well together. But I like my system, it's sounds good, and I haven't discovered instabilities in the past three years.

Of course tests are essential before building a non-standard configuration like this for oneself. My dealer gave me enough time to verify that the configuration worked for my system, before I bought the ADSM.

totemphile posted:

Tom-in-Amsterdam posted:

I have been pondering about upgrading my mac mini solution to either a NDX/ND5XS+hugo or to look into other brands.

If you've got money to burn you can do that. Otherwise just add a Hugo to your Mac mini and be done. There are some here who actually prefer this combo to the NDS/555PS front end. One sold his NDS and went for the Hugo.

As always, of course, you pays your money and you takes your choice!

 

so you affirm that mac mini hugo/ around 2500 pounds combo can be better than nds-555ps/ around 16000 pounds combo?  come one, stop this nonsense.

Keler Pierre posted:

totemphile posted:

Tom-in-Amsterdam posted:

I have been pondering about upgrading my mac mini solution to either a NDX/ND5XS+hugo or to look into other brands.

If you've got money to burn you can do that. Otherwise just add a Hugo to your Mac mini and be done. There are some here who actually prefer this combo to the NDS/555PS front end. One sold his NDS and went for the Hugo.

As always, of course, you pays your money and you takes your choice!

 

so you affirm that mac mini hugo/ around 2500 pounds combo can be better than nds-555ps/ around 16000 pounds combo?  come one, stop this nonsense.

Cost is not necessarily a measure of the sound something produces - some things you have to hear to believe.

Keler Pierre posted:

totemphile posted:

Tom-in-Amsterdam posted:

I have been pondering about upgrading my mac mini solution to either a NDX/ND5XS+hugo or to look into other brands.

If you've got money to burn you can do that. Otherwise just add a Hugo to your Mac mini and be done. There are some here who actually prefer this combo to the NDS/555PS front end. One sold his NDS and went for the Hugo.

As always, of course, you pays your money and you takes your choice!

 

so you affirm that mac mini hugo/ around 2500 pounds combo can be better than nds-555ps/ around 16000 pounds combo?  come one, stop this nonsense.

Don't Panic, I can stop this nonsense.

www.nomatterwhatyouthinkaboutyourcurrenthifiNaimisalwaysbeterokay!.com

.sjb

Innocent Bystander posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

totemphile posted:

Tom-in-Amsterdam posted:

I have been pondering about upgrading my mac mini solution to either a NDX/ND5XS+hugo or to look into other brands.

If you've got money to burn you can do that. Otherwise just add a Hugo to your Mac mini and be done. There are some here who actually prefer this combo to the NDS/555PS front end. One sold his NDS and went for the Hugo.

As always, of course, you pays your money and you takes your choice!

 

so you affirm that mac mini hugo/ around 2500 pounds combo can be better than nds-555ps/ around 16000 pounds combo?  come one, stop this nonsense.

Cost is not necessarily a measure of the sound something produces - some things you have to hear to believe.

i agree with you, but there are some limits....

i am not saying that when you pay more you have more.  I have listened to some silly priced gears sometimes, like the audionote 100 k cd player or boulder 350 monos...and was not impressed.  I preferred my last cdx2 to this audionote.  But there are some exceptions, and audionote and kondo are overpriced brands....it is quite a steal....

About naim audio, i am sure we can find competitive components for less money, like chord dave excellent dac, on par with nds/555 dr and twice more expensive.

But there are limits: mac mini/ chord hugo can't compete with 6 times more expensive nds/555 dr.  We must stay a bit objective.  But perhaps mac mini/ uptone audio js2/ uptone regen usb/ chord dave can be competitive with nds/555 dr.

Keler Pierre posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

totemphile posted:

Tom-in-Amsterdam posted:

I have been pondering about upgrading my mac mini solution to either a NDX/ND5XS+hugo or to look into other brands.

If you've got money to burn you can do that. Otherwise just add a Hugo to your Mac mini and be done. There are some here who actually prefer this combo to the NDS/555PS front end. One sold his NDS and went for the Hugo.

As always, of course, you pays your money and you takes your choice!

 

so you affirm that mac mini hugo/ around 2500 pounds combo can be better than nds-555ps/ around 16000 pounds combo?  come one, stop this nonsense.

Cost is not necessarily a measure of the sound something produces - some things you have to hear to believe.

i agree with you, but there are some limits....

Why would you think the Hugo combo couldn't be better than NDS? The technology in NDS is relatively ancient as streaming/DACS are concerned. The diff in price in US is 3,500$ vs 26,000$. You can get the Hugo source and put the rest of the money into a used 552. 

Keler Pierre posted:

totemphile posted:

Tom-in-Amsterdam posted:

I have been pondering about upgrading my mac mini solution to either a NDX/ND5XS+hugo or to look into other brands.

If you've got money to burn you can do that. Otherwise just add a Hugo to your Mac mini and be done. There are some here who actually prefer this combo to the NDS/555PS front end. One sold his NDS and went for the Hugo.

As always, of course, you pays your money and you takes your choice!

 

so you affirm that mac mini hugo/ around 2500 pounds combo can be better than nds-555ps/ around 16000 pounds combo?  come one, stop this nonsense.

Have you done the comparison? If not, your opinion counts for very little because it's just that, an opinion based on no empirical experience and restrained by your narrow mind. Use the search function on this forum and read through all the Hugo threads and you will find the forum members stating what I quoted.

For what it's worth, I did a direct comparison between my CDX2.2/nDAC/555PS and CDX2.2/Hugo and 2Qute on extended home demo and both exceeded the nDAC/555PS combo in terms of resolution by a great margin. The nDAC/555PS did have a slightly deeper bass, though, which I preferred. However, there was very little in it between them and overall the Chord DACs were in no way inferior, quite the opposite. It was imply a question of what bass presentation I preferred.  Just like some forum members prefer the nDAC/555PS to the NDS/555PS for that very same reason. If I had to make a decision today, I'd go for a Hugo or 2Qute. 

YMMV but your argument based on cost is a non-argument, not with the Chord DACs. Sorry.

nds is 2012 product and the dac inside is of the nineties years... but the sound quality is fabulous. I have heard a lot streamers before purchasing it, like bryston, ps audio and simaudio... but preferred the nds. But i heard better too, than nds, like cad audio with trinity dac, full stack ddcs, métronome kallista...

But sorry, never heard a component priced at 3000 sounding better than one at 20000....

If you are right, a lot of people are stupid to pay for an nds/555dr.