DIY LP12 Servicing.

I have an LP12 near full Klimax spec and would not dream of carrying out my own servicing - no more than I would service my modern(ish) high performance car.  That does not mean it is impossible, but as with many of these things competence and excellence runs to rather more than just having the right jigs and tools.  The two "gurus", to use your terminology, with whom I have personal acquaintance have between them more than 40 years experience of setting up and optimising the LP12; it's certainly not voodoo but it is a wealth of experience for which I am happy to pay their relatively modest rates.

Thanks Bluedog for responding. I note that you wouldn't dream of doing your own servicing but as my OP invites, I am interested in hearing from anyone who has dreamt of doing it and how they got on.

all the best

I have a Klimax spec and do my own servicing as I did with the previous turntable. Not all of us can get to Derek or Peter and I've had some less than positive experiences with so called Linn dealers in the past. As with all these things, if you're mechanically minded and have the right tools (including a Kradle in my case) it really isn't rocket science. Some will disagree but the proof is always in the listening and the Keel and Khan top plate as well as the Radical motor have made the whole process less of an ordeal than it used to be. Most recently I fitted the Tranquility upgrade which with patience and following Roger's excellent guidance went very well and sound excellent to boot

Thanks Ravenswood10. With regard to the "Kradle" are you referring to the unofficial set up jig sold on the well known auction site? I ordered one and returned it for a refund as I found that the legs even when screwed in as tight as possible and levelled still had a springiness that meant the whole jig lacked rigidity and flexed easily. I didn't attempt using it as I felt that accurate set up would be difficult if the jig wasn't sufficiently rigid. How have you found it in practice?

I've had a stab in the past but not with my current deck. Although I did fit the Tranquility and that certainly doesn't seem to do anything negative to the set up. In fact it sounds amazing. Having said that if you can't get to a decent dealer then why not have a go as long as you are not totally ham fisted. It's certainly worth trawling the net for the many very useful set up guides out there as there are some invaluable tips. When I was tinkering I tested myself on a Manticore Mantra that I had in order to get used to the concepts and best approach before risking my incompetence on my LP12. There are similar designs out there that don't command LP12 prices so as a test bed they could be a good investment (dare I use the term)

The genuine one which unlike the one you mention doesn't wobble all over the place and prevent one from removing the Trampolin when the deck is in the jig

Richard,

I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to achieve with this thread? but here's my 10 cents worth.  

Many people have to DIY around the world because they don't have a expert to do it for them.

Lots think its easy and do everything on the cheap ?

Most DIYers  will say they have a good/great sounding deck?

Setting up any level of LP12 is not rocket science but to get it sounding at its absolute 100% best takes some knowledge and experience only gained by doing it day in day out for many years. 

Of course you could always go for a new Technics direct drive and forget all those fiendishly difficult springs. I've owned LP12s for over 30 years and think I know my way around the deck by now...as usual there's a lot of regurgitation of folklore. Of course you could always drive the deck in your car for miles, drive it back again and then do the final set up which involves settling bias and tracking weights - horror of horrors especially with a Kandid. I much prefer to do it all in situ. Again, if you're mechanically competent it really ain't that difficult - honest.

Drones posted:

Richard,

I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to achieve with this thread? but here's my 10 cents worth.  

Many people have to DIY around the world because they don't have a expert to do it for them.

Lots think its easy and do everything on the cheap ?

Most DIYers  will say they have a good/great sounding deck?

Setting up any level of LP12 is not rocket science but to get it sounding at its absolute 100% best takes some knowledge and experience only gained by doing it day in day out for many years. 

 

 

Not trying to achieve anything other than to hear peoples experiences of DIY servicing. No hidden agenda.

I have a mechanical engineering background and already quite adept at usual in situ set up that doesn't require stripping down.

There are some excellent guides available including Peter Swains that I have. The innards of an LP12 are not particularly complex for someone who has engineering background and ability. Its certainly not rocket science but I guess requires time and patience to get right, something which I have.

I didn't mention that I own an early 90's model LP12 which has been regularly dealer serviced. During its life it has had Cirkus bearing upgrade, Trampolin 2, Ekos upgraded from Akito, Armageddon but latterly switched to Lingo 3, current cartridge is Dynavector 17D3, Prefix/Hicap.

You have time, patience and a mechanical aptitude. I suppose what you are really asking is, 'what price the experience of the guru?'

C.

Christopher_M posted:

I suppose what you are really asking is, 'what price the experience of the guru?'

Or maybe - "is it all that difficult to defeat the learning curve?"

An absolute 100% best from the guru was mentioned, but that's purely subjective, and who'll ever know if it was really only 95% ?

Quite right Randy.

The guru may not have seen Richard2000's Linn before but he will probably be a Man of A Thousand Sondeks. There won't be much he's not seen.

C.

Richard 2000 posted:

Thanks Ravenswood10. With regard to the "Kradle" are you referring to the unofficial set up jig sold on the well known auction site? I ordered one and returned it for a refund as I found that the legs even when screwed in as tight as possible and levelled still had a springiness that meant the whole jig lacked rigidity and flexed easily. I didn't attempt using it as I felt that accurate set up would be difficult if the jig wasn't sufficiently rigid. How have you found it in practice?

 

 

 

 

Yes, that's right and I have been saying this for years actually, most recently earlier this week in the Blue place.  Please get the official jig as it costs just a little more and is very rigid as you have found you need.

LP12 is not Rocket Science; again as I have been saying for years in an attempt to de-mystify the set-up process but attention to detail is essential in ensuring you get the best from the deck.

Original set-up tools are available, you don't necessarily need to go to auction sites to get them. Forum rules prevent me saying more.

Have fun and enjoy your vinyl.

KR

Peter

Christopher_M posted:

You have time, patience and a mechanical aptitude. I suppose what you are really asking is, 'what price the experience of the guru?'

C.

Thanks Christopher, but you suppose incorrectly.

joerand posted:

Christopher_M posted:

I suppose what you are really asking is, 'what price the experience of the guru?'

Or maybe - "is it all that difficult to defeat the learning curve?"

Bi

No I'm not asking that either.

With respect friends, as my original post states, I am fully aware of subjective opinions regarding only having your Linn serviced by a dealer, (which to date I do).

I have no agenda, I am not trying to do something on the cheap and I am not trying to diminish the good work of the experts. Suffice to say I have good reason to contemplate a DIY approach. As my original post asks, I just simply would like to hear from those who have actually done their own servicing and how easy/difficult they found the task, good or bad outcomes, pros n cons etc.

If you have no experience of servicing your own LP12 then with respect thank you but please refrain from posting as its not really helpful.

It's a forum mate - it's for an exchange of views. It's not an advice centre

bluedog posted:

It's a forum mate - it's for an exchange of views. It's not an advice centre

like I said I am interested in the views of those who have practical hands on experience of the topic, you wouldn't dream of doing your own servicing, which is fine but that's not what Im asking so not really helpful.

respect

I have worked on my own turntable, Not an LP12 but a similar 3 point sprung system in a Heybrook TT2. 

It took some thinking about, associating the positional error with the turntable the right way up, platter on etc with the corrective action required to each of the springs with the whole thing up side down and platter off. 

For the expert they have the benefit of experience, it just takes a methodical and careful bod who is prepared to think the process through rather longer . One advantage I found is that you are much less likely to put a value on your time so you can spend a little longer getting it just so. 

It it isn't rocket science, it requires care and proper consideration of the mechanical system. If you feel you have the right qualities I wouldn't hesitate to give it a go, you learn something and get satisfaction of a job completed to your satisfaction. 

I build and true my own road bike wheels, similar skills required, only you have to twiddle 32 threaded spoke ends, "nipples" there i said it, the challenge there is to get the wheel concentric, laterally positioned so that the wheel is central between the fixing lugs and runs true with no warp, oh and end up with a strong wheel with each spoke equally tensioned. Easier said than done and hey I'm not going to make a living doing it because I take too long but it can be done. Such practice makes you less dependant on others.

bluedog posted:

It's a forum mate - it's for an exchange of views. It's not an advice centre

I thought it did offer advice - ho hum

Richard 2000 posted:

I have no agenda,

As my original post asks, I just simply would like to hear from those who have actually done their own servicing

If you have no experience of servicing your own LP12 then with respect thank you but please refrain from posting as its not really helpful.

I have no experience servicing a LP12, but as stated above it's a forum and you can't select or restrict who responds to your coveted topic.

Richard,

yes, it's quite possible to successfully do your own servicing and setup, however, it is something that requires a degree of experience, confidence and knack to know when things are just right. The best way to proceed if you want to go it alone is to carefully watch an expert build and setup a similar spec deck to your own from scratch. Then practice on your own deck.  Practice and experience makes perfect here.

If that's not possible then Peter Swain of Cymbiosis has published online a very comprehensive thread on setting up various different vintages of LP12 turntable and I would imagine that if you follow that to the letter then you will have an excellent chance of setting up an LP12 reasonably well.  Most important is to have some sort of jig to keep the deck level and allow access top and bottom for fitting and adjustment.  The Linn Jig is obviously ideal here but I've used others at a pinch including a hastily modified old target table and clamps which worked just fine. Just ensure that everything is kept nice and level.

If you enjoy rolling up your sleeves and getting into mechanical work then it should be fairly straightforward and rather enjoyable.  But if you want to be absolutely sure it's set up 100% then there's no substitute for getting the work done by an expert.

Over the years I have casually read many of the threads over on the Scottish forum and have accumulated various set up guides, the best of which appears to be the one from Peter Swain which was the subject of a comprehensive thread and downloadable as pdf from Cymbiosis. And of course the advice of Linn dealer.

It would appear though that there are plenty of discussions regarding various aspects of set up and the merits of upgrade X vs upgrade Y etc but little from anyone who has actually done their own complete servicing. So I am trying to narrow the focus of discussion in that regard.

Of course I considered posting over on the other forum, but

I am a casual periodic visitor to these forums, am not actually registered to post on the other and more familiar with the Naim site and the users on it.

I expect that there may be some restrictions on how far Linn will allow such discussion to go.

By posting this thread here, I was thinking that responses might be a little more independent and free thinking.

Thanks Peter Swain & Richard Dane,

Are you able to steer me in the right direction as to obtaining a Kradle or other suitable jig?