DIY LP12 Servicing.

Richard 2000 posted:

Over the years I have casually read many of the threads over on the Scottish forum and have accumulated various set up guides, the best of which appears to be the one from Peter Swain which was the subject of a comprehensive thread and downloadable as pdf from Cymbiosis. And of course the advice of Linn dealer.

It would appear though that there are plenty of discussions regarding various aspects of set up and the merits of upgrade X vs upgrade Y etc but little from anyone who has actually done their own complete servicing. So I am trying to narrow the focus of discussion in that regard.

Of course I considered posting over on the other forum, but

I am a casual periodic visitor to these forums, am not actually registered to post on the other and more familiar with the Naim site and the users on it.

I expect that there may be some restrictions on how far Linn will allow such discussion to go.

By posting this thread here, I was thinking that responses might be a little more independent and free thinking.

I expect all the other regular forum members are as devastated as I am to learn of your disappointment.

Richard 2000 posted:

Thanks Peter Swain & Richard Dane,

Are you able to steer me in the right direction as to obtaining a Kradle or other suitable jig?

 

No, that would contravene forum rules.  Ask your Linn dealer or look in the usual places online for something secondhand.

As for going into more detail with regard to servicing an LP12 - it's all out there but this kind of discussion is dancing on the line of forum rules prohibiting DIY discussion, and possibly steps over that line, so maybe a discussion best held elsewhere.

I have read this topic and I feel tempted not to buy an old car and restore it myself, but get an older LP12 and do the restauration. I understand Richard 2000's questions / comments and part of the fun of hifi is not only in the listening but also the gear and how minor changes can make quite a difference. Doing this by yourself gives an extra dimention and understanding.

Maintaining an LP12 looks to me more feasible and explainable to my wife than that old Porsche ...

Hmm ... an old carrera or so would be nice though ...

Choices

Ardbeg10y posted:

I have read this topic and I feel tempted not to buy an old car and restore it myself, but get an older LP12 and do the restauration. I understand Richard 2000's questions / comments and part of the fun of hifi is not only in the listening but also the gear and how minor changes can make quite a difference. Doing this by yourself gives an extra dimention and understanding.

Maintaining an LP12 looks to me more feasible and explainable to my wife than that old Porsche ...

Hmm ... an old carrera or so would be nice though ...

Choices

Ah, an old Porsche 911 eh? Interesting cars. Evolving over a long period of time, Porsche seemed to just kept 'tacking' stuff on or modifying it rather than starting all over again. None of the manuals I had ever really covered everything, I was forever finding Porsche's idea of a novel solution to a problem which most other cars didn't have!

Love em to bits. Having lots of adjustable bits is great except they could go out of adjustment, and if you were lucky the 'adjustability' wasn't seized when you got around to trying to move it. The best bit is you begin to understand the machine a little bit more.

To some extent a bit like an LP12. (",)

Thanks Richard, I only asked as Peter suggested set up tools are available and not necessarily from auction sites.

As I said before I'm not trying to persue any kind of hidden agenda and not asking for posts with the intention of contravening rules. However, when people seem to receive this sort of post with suspicion perhaps I was being naive.

Can I just say how impressed I am that no one has lowered the tone since the word nipple was mentioned earlier in the thread? Good to see we can have a mature debate without the forum rules being flouted. Well done everyone. 

This pic makes me laugh.

Jig? Pah!

John.

You can buy all the tools from your Linn dealer. That is what I did: I have the official jig, T-bar, Kinky... 

I lived in Rio for most of my life, and now I live in Houston, TX. No Linn dealer in the first country, nearest one in my state at the moment is a 4-hr drive away.

Anticipating that situation, when I lived in Britain I observed Peter Swain setup my turntable a few times to be comfortable doing it myself, and have built a couple of LP12s since. Now I would actually trust myself over quite a few Linn dealer setups I saw before I took it to Peter the first time.

I'll do basic maintenance on my deck and also built my second one from scratch, but whenever I do an upgrade that requires a full rebuild I ask Peter to fly here to do it. There are some parts of the setup process (e.g. fitting top-plate to plinth) that require practice to get right, and I won't ever approach the number of builds he has done.

If you live close to a top Linn dealer, it's a no brainer IMO. If you are in a situation similar to mine, I'd still generally recommend getting one that will travel to do it, but one can certainly get a very good setup with just attention to detail and using adequate tools.

I just find the cost worthwhile vs. that of LP12SE upgrades.

I imagine some Linn dealers would lbe happy to sell the tools where's others may not.

I guess you must have a very high end set up for it to be worthwhile to cover the cost of flying out Peter. I'm not acquainted with Peter but he is evidently held with high regard and a very commited Linn enthusiast prepared literally to go the extra mile.

J.N. posted:

This pic makes me laugh.

Jig? Pah!

John.

Page 23 in Peter Swain's LP12 Set Up Guide I believe

bluedog posted:

J.N. posted:

This pic makes me laugh.

Jig? Pah!

 

Page 23 in Peter Swain's LP12 Set Up Guide I believe

It made me chuckle too actually and great to have a glimpse back to then............. 

I'm guessing it pre-dates my brief guide by 30 years+ 

KR

Peter

Richard 2000 posted:

 

Of course I considered posting over on the other forum, but

I am a casual periodic visitor to these forums, am not actually registered to post on the other and more familiar with the Naim site and the users on it.

I expect that there may be some restrictions on how far Linn will allow such discussion to go.

Trusting Richard does not object under the rules here I will try to answer you:

Actually, I believe your assumption is holding you back. 

KR

Peter

Moderated Post:  Peter, sorry but I had to edit...

Richard 2000 posted:

I guess you must have a very high end set up for it to be worthwhile to cover the cost of flying out Peter. I'm not acquainted with Peter but he is evidently held with high regard and a very commited Linn enthusiast prepared literally to go the extra mile.

One thing that helps is the VAT exemption for exports plus sharing the cost of the flights with other LP12 users. It is really not that expensive overall.

The LP12 is the Porsche 911 of the turntable world. It keeps reinventing  itself with tweaks and small upgrades that keep deviding  opinions right, left and centre. 

Peter must have one hell of a thick skin built through  out the years to protect him from the flack he gets defending the merits of the LP12 from people who don't seem to get what the LP12 is all about. Kudos to him.

Richard, I read Peters response before you moderated it. I do struggle to understand the peculiarities of forum rules & ettiquete and seemingly extreme censorship.

Being a non Vinyl person, I'm really getting attracted by the LP12. I know it is stupid, but buying a 40 year old Porsche is also a thing one needs to do by heart.

I'm impressed by Peters documentation. It is almost like building Lego's Starwars Death Star - slowly step by step.

Nah, let the kids grow a bit faster and have some time for all this ...

Richard - it's cross forum discussion - i.e. discussing threads, comments etc.. from another hifi forum.  I'm strict on this because a) nobody wants to see a return to the bad old days of flame wars breaking out across multiple forums b) this  has been used in the past by new forum start ups to "poach" membership or advertise for their site. 

I think Peter and some others have produced some excellent guides, in Peters case nicely comprehensive and informed.

IMO most users of the LP12 down the years would agree that there used to be a lot of deliberate myth making.

The guides produced by Peter in particular have gone a long way to demystify and myth bust a lot that has been perpetuated by some in the field surrounding the LP12. We are therefore all better off for such no nonsense approaches that give us all much better insight into the workings of an LP12 and how to get the best performance.

Richard Dane posted:

Richard - it's cross forum discussion - i.e. discussing threads, comments etc.. from another hifi forum.  I'm strict on this because a) nobody wants to see a return to the bad old days of flame wars breaking out across multiple forums b) this  has been used in the past by new forum start ups to "poach" membership or advertise for their site. 

Ok, but I'm not sure how that relates to Peters answers. Like I said I dont visit forums very often and don't know what a flame war is or how anything I've posted could be construed as trying to poach members to another forum. So I'm left scratching my head a bit, lol

The post referred to discussion on another forum - cross forum discussion.

Doesn't it all get a bit absurd and pythonesque when posters can use euphemisms like "the Scottish place" "other place" "Blue Place" (?) etc where everyone knows what Is being described, but the minute someone mentions it by name or even generically refers to another forum gets shown the red card. So posters are left using weird esoteric language and codes akin to a masonic lodge.

Richard, if you wish to to take this off forum then by all means do so.  I guess it's your thread so you can take it any way you want, but maybe it's time I moved it to the padded cell if you've exhausted the actual topic at hand.

As for the rule in question, I've been moderating this forum on and off for many years now and I see what goes on in the background.  Everyone wants a piece of this forum and especially a way in to solicit or market to the membership here.  Part of my role is to safeguard the membership which is why certain rules exist - they may not at first look important or may look petty to you, but trust me, they are very necessary to ensure this forum remains a safe place for members, and free of unwanted commercial solicitation.  There's a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes every day to keep it that way, so you're just going to have to take me at my word on this.

Think of it like the Scottish Play...  

Some of these rules do seem a bit petty at times, but they do prevent it becoming a free for all, and I think Richard does a great job in keeping everyone within the rules while allowing as much freedom as possible. It's Naim's Forum, and we either comply with the rules or go elsewhere. 

I remember once reading a post from someone who was moving on from SBLs. So I posted my email and asked him to contact me. Which he did, before Adam (who was moderating then) zapped my post. The speakers were lovely!

Hungryhalibut posted:

Think of it like the Scottish Play...  

Some of these rules do seem a bit petty at times, but they do prevent it becoming a free for all, and I think Richard does a great job in keeping everyone within the rules while allowing as much freedom as possible. It's Naim's Forum, and we either comply with the rules or go elsewhere. 

I remember once reading a post from someone who was moving on from SBLs. So I posted my email and asked him to contact me. Which he did, before Adam (who was moderating then) zapped my post. The speakers were lovely!

If you do that again, Adam and Richard will pay you a visit and "break a leg".

Richard

 You don’t appear to be getting a lot of practical advice from LP12 owners, perhaps advise from a Manticore Mantra owner maybe some help. The mantra’s obviously built more substantially and simpler than the LP12, but the suspension setup appears to be very similar.

 Firstly you don’t need to buy a jig, build your own. All you need is 4 planks, I built one from an old book case I no longer needed. See sketch below.

Screw or bolt the four pieces of wood together and screw a couple of pieces of wood to prevent the plinth from moving sideways.  Support it on a couple of chairs and shim it level.

 The only advise I can give regarding setup, is optimum sound quality isn’t obtained with the platter level with the plinth. I found after levelling the platter, tightening the spring diametrically opposite the motor, raised the platter at that point. The difference isn’t subtle. If it doesn’t improve your deck, not a problem, it won’t take long to level it again. You’ve got as long as you want to try as many different settings as you want.

Have fun.