Proac D18s Out - What to allow in for a replacement?

Posted by: SongStream on 07 May 2017

For all my efforts, and all the moments where for 10 minutes or so I think I've managed to tame my Proac D18s, I think it's time to face reality. For all their talents I just don't like them, and never have. Now and again they reproduce music exactly the way I think they should, but I can't live with a speaker just because Madeleine Peyroux happens to come across really well, when 90% of everything else kind of doesn't. Whether it's the room, my unreasonable objection to bright-ish speakers, or I just have a duff example, doesn't really matter any more, they are going.

Now, I would value your thoughts, and experiences in relation to alternatives. I am thinking there is no need to consider options over £3k to partner the rest of my system, DAC-V1 + SN2 + NACA5, but if there is something stand-out at a not too much higher price they would get considered. The room is 3m x 6m -ish My initial shortlist to demo is....

Focal Aria 936

Neat Motive SX1

Quite a short shortlist, any others I should have on there as a must hear? I like what I have read about both of the above. Both seem to thrive on their balanced performance, which is where the Proacs failed me, and are allegedly exceptionally easy to get along with and enjoy. Possibly trading the tiniest amount of detail in favor of balancing the performance as a whole, with a weighty natural sound. They are the basic highlights I've picked from reviews, and that suits me fine in principle. Anyone who has real experience of these in a Naim system, or had demos etc, do please speak up.

Thanks

Posted on: 08 May 2017 by SongStream

J.N. posted:
Greetings Songstream. I thought you were local. I spent a nice afternoon in North Norfolk with a friend and Basically Sound customer today.
The RK 120 I heard on dem was a prototype I think.
Good luck with your search.
John.

Thanks. Yep, local , and right on the border of the two 'folks me.

Posted on: 08 May 2017 by SongStream

To those who have suggested the S-400s. I came very close to pursuing that avenue, but then Naim discontinued them. For some reason, the fact that the S-400s and the rest of the range were dropped put me off the idea.

Posted on: 08 May 2017 by DrMark

For some reason - but perhaps not a good reason - ask people about their SBLs which are discontinued some 15 years or so now.

And the reason may be because they were acquired by a company with its own line of speakers. (Opinion).

Posted on: 09 May 2017 by mpw

wouldnt the source first philosophy apply here too ??

Maybe Songstream should try a better DAC ??

Maybe the SN2 is showing up the source ?

Posted on: 09 May 2017 by mpw

songstream,

there is no taming to do - the circus went away a long time ago

Certainly i cannot try to imagine the Lion tamer with a Naim naca5 ( as the whip ) and compelling the poor D18's to " perform"

( pun.. pun.. and all the way ... pun )

maybe its the room or source...or if you need more bass - then a subwoofer ??

regards

Posted on: 09 May 2017 by SongStream

mpw posted:
songstream,
there is no taming to do - the circus went away a long time ago
Certainly i cannot try to imagine the Lion tamer with a Naim naca5 ( as the whip ) and compelling the poor D18's to " perform"
( pun.. pun.. and all the way ... pun )
maybe its the room or source...or if you need more bass - then a subwoofer ??
regards

Definitely don't need more bass, that's fine. Source, different matter perhaps, I am sure there are gains to be had in the future. However, the DAC-V1 / SN2 combo worked well with previous speakers, if anything just lacked a little drama and impact sometimes, edging towards too polite, but rarely notable, and tonally pretty damn excellent. While I can't absolutely rule it out, I think the room really is pretty easy to deal with, I've used the same one for 20 years, and with various equipment, I know its acoustic reactions quite well. It doesn't (normally) take me long to get newcomers adjusted to it.

Posted on: 09 May 2017 by SongStream

Oh, and with regards to the circus leaving, if the trucks really have left, the act must be looking a bit lean at the new destination.

Posted on: 09 May 2017 by mpw

SongStream posted:
mpw posted:
songstream,
there is no taming to do - the circus went away a long time ago
Certainly i cannot try to imagine the Lion tamer with a Naim naca5 ( as the whip ) and compelling the poor D18's to " perform"
( pun.. pun.. and all the way ... pun )
maybe its the room or source...or if you need more bass - then a subwoofer ??
regards
Definitely don't need more bass, that's fine. Source, different matter perhaps, I am sure there are gains to be had in the future. However, the DAC-V1 / SN2 combo worked well with previous speakers, if anything just lacked a little drama and impact sometimes, edging towards too polite, but rarely notable, and tonally pretty damn excellent. While I can't absolutely rule it out, I think the room really is pretty easy to deal with, I've used the same one for 20 years, and with various equipment, I know its acoustic reactions quite well. It doesn't (normally) take me long to get newcomers adjusted to it.

perhaps the earlier speakers were not to revealing enough ??

Just because it worked earlier doesnt imply it will work when something changes in the system. Thats what is "revealing" all about.

I dont for a moment suggest to retain the D18 but only wanted to point at possible other causes.

Do select the speakers and / or source - with your taste for music in mind as well.

Ultimately your ears are the best judge.

good luck !

Posted on: 09 May 2017 by mpw

SongStream posted:
Oh, and with regards to the circus leaving, if the trucks really have left, the act must be looking a bit lean at the new destination.

perhaps..

i was alluding to the philosophy of "taming" vis a vis " dancing with "

Posted on: 09 May 2017 by SongStream

mpw posted:
SongStream posted:
mpw posted:
songstream,
there is no taming to do - the circus went away a long time ago
Certainly i cannot try to imagine the Lion tamer with a Naim naca5 ( as the whip ) and compelling the poor D18's to " perform"
( pun.. pun.. and all the way ... pun )
maybe its the room or source...or if you need more bass - then a subwoofer ??
regards
Definitely don't need more bass, that's fine. Source, different matter perhaps, I am sure there are gains to be had in the future. However, the DAC-V1 / SN2 combo worked well with previous speakers, if anything just lacked a little drama and impact sometimes, edging towards too polite, but rarely notable, and tonally pretty damn excellent. While I can't absolutely rule it out, I think the room really is pretty easy to deal with, I've used the same one for 20 years, and with various equipment, I know its acoustic reactions quite well. It doesn't (normally) take me long to get newcomers adjusted to it.

perhaps the earlier speakers were not to revealing enough ??
Just because it worked earlier doesnt imply it will work when something changes in the system. Thats what is "revealing" all about.
I dont for a moment suggest to retain the D18 but only wanted to point at possible other causes.
Do select the speakers and / or source - with your taste for music in mind as well.
Ultimately your ears are the best judge.
good luck !

Thanks. While the D18s are more revealing, and in a good way where they manage it, they are lacking at certain frequencies, and over emphasizing others. Previous speakers were much more complete in the mid-band, and that's where the problem is with D18s. Two speakers can be revealing, and sound completely different, and indeed reveal different things. Proac, at this level anyway, seem to think the priority is to reveal at the high and low frequencies mainly, which is, apparently, often considered a short-cut way to making things sound instantly impressive, detailed and exciting. Doesn't work for me, and that's what you get for not listening before you buy, and taking impulsive punts on auction sites. I've only ever done that once, and this is the lesson learnt.