No Rooms found

Yes I would agree to talk to BT is the next move Veronica,  its frustrating with help desk horrors etc.,       I'm not agreeing there is a generic problem with the HH6 as too many are out there working OK,  but with flashing lights its does seem like you have a faulty one.  

No Nigel I won't be throwing the 5 away until the 6 is proven OK.  I have high hopes tho',  my son moved to a 6 (from a 4) because of issues & 'last chance' threats to BT & they agreed to update him (FOC) to HH6,  that was numbers of months ago & he is dee-lighted with it,   & with a teenage family with more games, sonos, smart phones, laptops, PC & tablets than the average small town,  it just works.

That's a great idea Chris the routers they give out are rubbish . I don't run much off my Hub6 but to get a new one from BT is like blood from a stone Mike,  but if its flashes again and am off to buy the Linksys ....

Veronica Weir posted:

...
the 6 drops connection a lot the flashing purple light means it's not getting a signal.
...

What do you mean by "not getting a signal"?

It's not talking to the Internet.

Veronica Weir posted:

That's a great idea Chris the routers they give out are rubbish . I don't run much off my Hub6 but to get a new one from BT is like blood from a stone Mike,  but if its flashes again and am off to buy the Linksys ....

I've been running an Airport Extreme like this for years, and it's been very reliable. The main advantage for a complete idiot like me is that you only have to be able to understand plain English to set it up, which is very quick and easy, rather than having to try and understand some technobabble setup options. Still, I'm sure the Linksys will be fine!

Veronica Weir posted:

It's not talking to the Internet.

That's not going to cause "No Rooms Found"

And the problem is with the LAN not the WAN.

As Chris suggests, using a separate Wireless Access Point may be the answer.

I am a complete idiot Chris when it comes to Internet jargon Apple would be good for me as all my computer stuff is all Apple I will do some more research it's all working at the mo so will wait for next No Rooms show. At least got my CD player and LPs to fall back on.

I am not an expert Huge but feed back from Naim points to Router and since it keeps dropping out of Internet connection it makes sence to me, my last BT hub the 5 never missed a beat.

The router has three main groups of functions (this is a gross simplification, but right in principle*)

Control the local network
Connect wireless devices to the local network
Connect the local network to the internet

It's one of the first two that's going wrong (not the last one).

* Simon I know you hate over-simplification, but in this case it's needed at least to start with.

Following the simple approach and the basis I / others have a supplier provided router ( Virgin in my case), what specifically would I need to do, I.e. Buy what, connect how etc?

thanks in advance for feedback

Ok, I believe the BT Homehubs use multicast technology for BT vision and I suspect have IGMP snooping built in, so there may be some sort of interoperability issue. The later Homehubs are genereally very good (HH5 / 6).. I would be wary in swapping out for a Netgear consumer router etc unless you are comfortable with what you are doing.. its sometimes not all plug and play and there are hidden things going on under the covers.

So, if you know how to do ping, the next time you get 'room not' found ping 239.255.255.250 and you should see addresses returned from your NAS/media server, streamer and iPad... if not your home network is likely blocking SSDP which uses that multicast address.

if this happens, the most likely culprit is the wifi interface on your router. One alternative is to use an alternative wifi access point plugged into your router. You can use an Apple AirPort Extreme (with IGMP snooping disabled and in bridge mode) is a good one to use.. and you can plug into your seperate switch such as a Netgear or better.

if you get all the IP addresses back from your ping .. especially if you ping from wifi, then I say that points to application software issues... but I would still try an alternate wifi access point.

I find UniFi access points first class, you can set up as an ESSID (hand offs between multiple access points for load balancing and signal), and can be set up to comfortably stream hidef media via wifi.

Veronica Weir posted:

That's a great idea Chris the routers they give out are rubbish . I don't run much off my Hub6 but to get a new one from BT is like blood from a stone Mike,  but if its flashes again and am off to buy the Linksys ....

I would not give up with BT without at least calling them,  flashing lights is a real problem & BT hubs have an internal data logger & they log everything including stuff we have no idea about;  the call centre have technical people who can interrogate that data & determine what the cause of the flashing lights is.

Thank you Simon.

It would be nice if someone from Naim might respond as they must have had to deal with the No Rooms Found issue before. Don't get me wrong, I am not casting any blame on Naim hardware or software but surely the good folk of Salisbury must have some ideas of the likely culprits.

Mike-B posted:

Veronica Weir posted:

That's a great idea Chris the routers they give out are rubbish . I don't run much off my Hub6 but to get a new one from BT is like blood from a stone Mike,  but if its flashes again and am off to buy the Linksys ....

I would not give up with BT without at least calling them,  flashing lights is a real problem & BT hubs have an internal data logger & they log everything including stuff we have no idea about;  the call centre have technical people who can interrogate that data & determine what the cause of the flashing lights is.

Good advice from Mike - if there are flashing lights something is wrong - the BT HH as mike says normally have good diagnostics and so the issue could be potentially identified. Using a third party device might make matters worse or obfuscate /hide an underlying issue that could cause issues elsewhere. As said the HH5/6 devices are rather capable and advanced - and are optimum for connection to the BT network.

Simon

Nigel,

Naim do know the usual culprits: Inappropriately configured Wireless Routers.

But there are a large number of examples of different wireless router hardware, and even then different ISPs have them configured differently before dispatching them to their customers.  It would be impossible for Naim to track all the combinations of:
ISP,
ISP configured firmware / software versions,
hardware model type,
hardware version number,
and then test them all and publish a meaningful list!

And that doesn't even include situations where a user hasn't configured the network appropriately (for instance causing IP clashes, e.g. by mixing static IPs and DHCP without the proper configuration).

What I still don't understand is why on the same  wireless network, I'm using Sky Broadband bridged to an Apple AirPort Extreme, the wife's Sonos kit works flawlessly and the iOS Spotify app can find the Naim streamer and use it whilst the iOS Naim app can't.

Doesn't that point to a problem with the Naim app rather than my network?

Huge posted:

Nigel,

Naim do know the usual culprits: Inappropriately configured Wireless Routers.

But there are a large number of examples of different wireless router hardware, and even then different ISPs have them configured differently before dispatching them to their customers.  It would be impossible for Naim to track all the combinations of:
ISP,
ISP configured firmware / software versions,
hardware model type,
hardware version number,
and then test them all and publish a meaningful list!

OK, I accept that. But from reading threads like this, it seems to be an issue more when Naim streamers/servers are present. Folk who have Naim and other streaming systems (e.g. Sonos, Linn) have reported this issue only relates to Naim streaming systems. This maybe entirely unfair and an unrepresentative sample of course.

If Naim know the typical culprit in this issue, then I would ask if there is a typical fix, or does each network exhibiting the No Rooms Found problem have to have the cause of the problem diagnosed individually?

It is frustrating but for me this issue is intermittent and apparently random and always sorts itself out after a flurry of switching devices off and on. It would be nice if there were some generic advice, that's all. I will certainly try Simon's suggestion if the issue worsens.

Naim tried to keep to the standard UPnP / DLNA protocols to maintain interoperability with othe manfacturers components.

Try using Sonos with other than Sonos stuff.  They rolled their own system so that other standard things are less likely to interfere, however if something does interfere, because the stadard mediation protocol isn't there, then there's almost no chance of a solution - game over.  With Naim's approach the problem can usually be solved with enough expertise and fixinge the network device that's misbehaving.

In my case the router was configured to no allow DLNA protocols, and then when that was turned on it selectively supressed the standard discovery messages.

(Sorry I can't correct the spelling mistakes as I'm dyslexic and Chrome's spelling stuff has screwed up)

So effectively Naim are offering a long but managable war punctuated but a succession of minor skirmishes rather than the prospect of total victory or defeat.

The next time the wife sits down to listen to the Archers and reminds me of the cost of the entirely visible object that can't be found, I'll luxuriate in their wisdom��

No...

'Cause once you've found the the incorrectly configured device (and >90% of the time it's the broadband router) and fixed it using standard techniques, your Naim system will be rock steady as is the case for the majority of users.

If you can't find the problem yourself, then you can ask a networks expert as they'll know about the standard protocols.
With proprietary systems you'll have find a networks expert who also just happens to know the proprietary (and often undocumented) protocols of the particular manufacturer you've chosen.

Keeping to standards makes diagnosis easier not more difficult, and once you've fixed the problems they tend to stay fixed.

Does this mean that every time I change my ISP I have to configure the supplied broadband router to Naim spec? 

One of the reasons for buying the AirPort Extreme was to avoid that.

If you use the Airport as your WAP and run it in bridge mode, then you'll probably be OK no matter what broadband router is in use.

Also the configuration isn't specific for Naim, it's to make the router correctly support the standard UPnP DLNA protocols.  This ISP should have got this right, but some still don't mange it.

Huge posted:

'Cause once you've found the the incorrectly configured device (and >90% of the time it's the broadband router) and fixed it using standard techniques, your Naim system will be rock steady as is the case for the majority of users.

Keeping to standards makes diagnosis easier not more difficult, and once you've fixed the problems they tend to stay fixed.

I had network problems with the app not finding my Naim equipment quickly....sometimes it would be more than 30 secs before I could get it to work or I had to switch off the router and then  restart everything  

But ever since I put in a switch and then connected my Naim SU, US and Nas to it. Its been rock solid!

The Muso is in the bedroom and is connected wirelessly to the network. I can play hires music from the Nas without any dropouts!! I am particularly impressed with the Muso performance as it is wireless, but when i change rooms in the app, its there!! No delays.

Now the app finds the rooms in about 1 sec and then also remembers the music location you are currently in, even if a couple of days have gone by since I last used the app. Its been great now for over 6 months! Before the app would hunt for the equipment and I would have to kill the app and try again. This was very annoying!

So its not an equipment problem, its a network issue in that you either have a conflict or a bottleneck somewhere. 

Good luck!

Thanks Simon and Mike,

I am not technical at all regarding The Internet and routers can do basics but I'll take your advice and stick with BT as you say they can plug in and sort it out eventually , using 3rd party router I would be on my own and they are not all plug and hey presto connected. Biggest problem router is 20 meters plus wall away from my Naim so wifi is only option.

"Biggest problem router is 20 meters plus wall away from my Naim so wifi is only option"         Maybe better to say 'Biggest problem router is 20 meters plus wall away from my Naim so wifi is not an option.'   I'm a bit surprised this has not been raised before.   I don't accept 20 metres is a barrier for an ethernet connection,  it's the best reason I know for it.