Upgrade: DAC or Amplification?
Posted by: Timo on 08 May 2017
I have recently started my Naim journey with a modest XS2/ND5XS combo plus a pair of PMC Twenty5.23. In principle I enjoy this set-up very much, and I have never listened to so much music. Certainly, our TV “consumption” in the evening went down a lot!
Although I am rather happy with my little Naim system, at times I hope for more! Especially when orchestral and also operatic pieces get musically more complex and “big” (listening to Turandot as I write this…), I feel my system is not quite hitting the nail. Then things get a bit “muddy” and detail is lost. I am lacking hi-fi vocabulary to express my observations properly, but I hope I am reasonably clear.
I now wonder where to locate the (main) problem. From reading a lot but also first-hand experience when auditioning speakers in different set-ups, I know that that the DAC of the ND5XS lacks some finesse. For instance, on one occasion, a dealer used a Chord 2Cute (together with my XS2, which I brought in). The Dance of the Tumblers of Rimky-Korsakov’s Snowmaiden was amazing; crystal clear with breath-taking percussions – nowhere near the experience at home where it sounds a bit dull (though I am aware that room acoustic need to be considered as well).
Does this suggest the DAC is the weakest link requiring attention?
Or shall I rather look at amplification? I am aware that the PMC Twenty5.23 appreciate a bit more power. Or is the problem I describe more a problem of the pre-amp rather than power? Should upgrading to a Supernait 2 be my priority (rather than getting an external DAC)?
Ultimately, I know, I need to listen to different options. But nonetheless some guidance through the collective wisdom of the Forum would be most appreciated!
Many thanks!!
Timo
Mayor West posted:Hi Timo. I'm currently running PMC 20.23 with a SN2 although I started with a NaitXS/FCXS so probably not too dissimilar to yourself. The NaitXS/FCXS had no problem driving the PMC's although I felt that there was a lack of bottom end control and grip. I subsequently, switched to SN2 which drives the PMC's with much more authority as well as improving things in many other areas. The negative thing about the switch to SN2 however, was that (I felt) it exposed my source which was a DAC-V1 at the time. I therefore made the switch to a Chord Hugo which was a pretty huge upgrade for me (although I did divert via a Chord 2Qute). The 2Qute in my system, gave a slightly shouty presentation which could become a bit tiring which is why I eventually settled with Hugo. This set up has left me so far in a pretty happy place.
I suspect your path could be similar but I think it would be worth considering, if you prefer streaming to switch to a 272/250 based set up with the option addition of an XPSDR at a later date or to go NDX/SN2 with the option of adding an outboard DAC/XPSDR. Both set ups would keep you very happy I would imagine. Alternatively you could stick with your ND5XS and add a DAC to that. Lots of options to choose from!
Thanks for sharing "your journey" here, and since you also started with an XS/PMC combo your insights are indeed rather informative. Also interesting to learn that you moved to the Hugo (confirming GraemeH's comment that the Hugo was much superior). I seem to recall from an earlier thread that you moved to the 2Qute when that thread was still live -- but maybe I am mixing up things. Wasn't it your dealer who thought he couldn't hear a difference between Hugo and 2Qute?
Timo posted:Patu posted
About ND5XS and NDX used as a transport only. I wouldn't be conserned about this at all. ND5XS + nDAC would be extremely close to NDX + nDAC. I've had both, NDX and ND5XS at home but I didn't compare them side by side. Both performed well in transport mode.
Reassuring -- especially since the NDX as transport only is quite a pricey proposition...
I tried to force myself into streaming, first by NDX with the idea of selling the nDAC and after discovering that I prefer nDAC sonically, I tried ND5XS as a transport. Well, my USB solution (currently Roon -> Intona USB Isolator -> "Cuddly Bear" USB bridge -> nDAC) was on par with both of them, as a transport. I just couldn't justify the price of ND5XS to be used as a transport only. I subscribed to Roon earlier this year and really haven't given a thought for streaming after that.
Timo posted:Mayor West posted:Hi Timo. I'm currently running PMC 20.23 with a SN2 although I started with a NaitXS/FCXS so probably not too dissimilar to yourself. The NaitXS/FCXS had no problem driving the PMC's although I felt that there was a lack of bottom end control and grip. I subsequently, switched to SN2 which drives the PMC's with much more authority as well as improving things in many other areas. The negative thing about the switch to SN2 however, was that (I felt) it exposed my source which was a DAC-V1 at the time. I therefore made the switch to a Chord Hugo which was a pretty huge upgrade for me (although I did divert via a Chord 2Qute). The 2Qute in my system, gave a slightly shouty presentation which could become a bit tiring which is why I eventually settled with Hugo. This set up has left me so far in a pretty happy place.
I suspect your path could be similar but I think it would be worth considering, if you prefer streaming to switch to a 272/250 based set up with the option addition of an XPSDR at a later date or to go NDX/SN2 with the option of adding an outboard DAC/XPSDR. Both set ups would keep you very happy I would imagine. Alternatively you could stick with your ND5XS and add a DAC to that. Lots of options to choose from!
Thanks for sharing "your journey" here, and since you also started with an XS/PMC combo your insights are indeed rather informative. Also interesting to learn that you moved to the Hugo (confirming GraemeH's comment that the Hugo was much superior). I seem to recall from an earlier thread that you moved to the 2Qute when that thread was still live -- but maybe I am mixing up things. Wasn't it your dealer who thought he couldn't hear a difference between Hugo and 2Qute?
No problem. Yeah my observations of the 2Qute versus Hugo have been similar to GraemeH's and one or two other people if i remember correctly. My dealer did say he thought the he thought that the 2Qute was slightly better but I suspect he hadn't given it an extended listen as it had only been available for a few days when I first picked it up. For me, I found Hugo to simply 'get out of the way' more, being very transparent and smooth. I think ultimately it's going to be system dependent, and a 2Qute may work for you (as it does for many others) but I wouldn't rule out Hugo if you're planning on going down that route. Even at current second hand prices its a bargain so I imagine it will be even more so once Hugo 2 comes out.