Chord Sarum T

Chris Dolan posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Because in the case of sarum t for nac 282,  the 252 with powerlite is better.

Is that based on actually listening to the two alternatives, presumably you are referring to the Sarum T on the source to preamp or do you mean a power cable?

Either way, although I confess that I have not done that comparison but have owned all of the bits except powerline lite (so will assume poweline full fat on the SupercapDR for the 252) or Sarum T interconnect (so read SSA) though I do have a power cable - and assuming a SupercapDR on the 282 as well, I think that I would probably find the 282 combination preferable 

I do think that the differences are better heard with a 552 though  

The PL Lite on my 282's SuperCap Dr and NAPSC opened up the soundstage more and made instruments (orchestral in particular) stand out better just like a real concert where even a tambourine can be heard (Albert Hall Tchkovsky Gala on 20 June). I am testing 5m Superlumina speaker cable which just builds further on the improvement trend. I have Witch Hat Din to XLR and SL IC on the nDAC to 282, and Rega Couple 2 on the Aria to 282. £800 Chord on Aria did not work.

Phil

I've been running Sarum T streaming cables - upgraded from Sarum TA, so, technically, they were 2 generations old - over the past week from Melco to switch and switch to "the wall" (I'm using a Chord Music from Melco to the KDSM) and I have to say that the improvement to Tidal steaming and internet radio is huge.  Tidal in particular had been "fine" before but, understandably, not a patch on ripped or downloaded music. However, now, it's a much more acceptable proposition - still not as good of course, but way, way better than before.  It'll probably result in me buying less and using Tidal, especially for new releases, rather more.

Chris Dolan posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Because in the case of sarum t for nac 282,  the 252 with powerlite is better.

Is that based on actually listening to the two alternatives, presumably you are referring to the Sarum T on the source to preamp or do you mean a power cable?

Either way, although I confess that I have not done that comparison but have owned all of the bits except powerline lite (so will assume poweline full fat on the SupercapDR for the 252) or Sarum T interconnect (so read SSA) though I do have a power cable - and assuming a SupercapDR on the 282 as well, I think that I would probably find the 282 combination preferable 

I do think that the differences are better heard with a 552 though  

i was referring to the power cord.  I wanted just to say that if someone has a nac282 /supercap and want to add a sarum t power cord on it, for quite the same money i would prefer to buy the 252 with powerlite,  which, for me, would sound better than 282/supercap/ sarum t power cord.  I have not tested, but i am at 99% sure of it.  Of course it is only my opinion...

Keler Pierre posted:

Chris Dolan posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Because in the case of sarum t for nac 282,  the 252 with powerlite is better.

Is that based on actually listening to the two alternatives, presumably you are referring to the Sarum T on the source to preamp or do you mean a power cable?

Either way, although I confess that I have not done that comparison but have owned all of the bits except powerline lite (so will assume poweline full fat on the SupercapDR for the 252) or Sarum T interconnect (so read SSA) though I do have a power cable - and assuming a SupercapDR on the 282 as well, I think that I would probably find the 282 combination preferable 

I do think that the differences are better heard with a 552 though  

i was referring to the power cord.  I wanted just to say that if someone has a nac282 /supercap and want to add a sarum t power cord on it, for quite the same money i would prefer to buy the 252 with powerlite,  which, for me, would sound better than 282/supercap/ sarum t power cord.  I have not tested, but i am at 99% sure of it.  Of course it is only my opinion...

It would worth having a go then! No point in speculating - opinions have little value unless they are informed...

Dave J posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Chris Dolan posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Because in the case of sarum t for nac 282,  the 252 with powerlite is better.

Is that based on actually listening to the two alternatives, presumably you are referring to the Sarum T on the source to preamp or do you mean a power cable?

Either way, although I confess that I have not done that comparison but have owned all of the bits except powerline lite (so will assume poweline full fat on the SupercapDR for the 252) or Sarum T interconnect (so read SSA) though I do have a power cable - and assuming a SupercapDR on the 282 as well, I think that I would probably find the 282 combination preferable 

I do think that the differences are better heard with a 552 though  

i was referring to the power cord.  I wanted just to say that if someone has a nac282 /supercap and want to add a sarum t power cord on it, for quite the same money i would prefer to buy the 252 with powerlite,  which, for me, would sound better than 282/supercap/ sarum t power cord.  I have not tested, but i am at 99% sure of it.  Of course it is only my opinion...

It would worth having a go then! No point in speculating - opinions have little value unless they are informed...

well understood my captain!    i made my opinion with 20 years experience in audio and with a lot of naim gear that i have owned and own. I had 202, 282/hicap , 252, and now ear 912. Have tried powerlines, isotek, kharma power cords with precedent gear.  I doubt all the opinions here are done only by exact testing....but experience can give an idea on what upgrades we can expect with power cords , interconnects, better dac or ps, etc....

But if you want to buy a 10k power cord on a nait5i, why not, it is your money man!

Keler Pierre posted:

Dave J posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Chris Dolan posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Because in the case of sarum t for nac 282,  the 252 with powerlite is better.

Is that based on actually listening to the two alternatives, presumably you are referring to the Sarum T on the source to preamp or do you mean a power cable?

Either way, although I confess that I have not done that comparison but have owned all of the bits except powerline lite (so will assume poweline full fat on the SupercapDR for the 252) or Sarum T interconnect (so read SSA) though I do have a power cable - and assuming a SupercapDR on the 282 as well, I think that I would probably find the 282 combination preferable 

I do think that the differences are better heard with a 552 though  

i was referring to the power cord.  I wanted just to say that if someone has a nac282 /supercap and want to add a sarum t power cord on it, for quite the same money i would prefer to buy the 252 with powerlite,  which, for me, would sound better than 282/supercap/ sarum t power cord.  I have not tested, but i am at 99% sure of it.  Of course it is only my opinion...

It would worth having a go then! No point in speculating - opinions have little value unless they are informed...

well understood my captain!    i made my opinion with 20 years experience in audio and with a lot of naim gear that i have owned and own. I had 202, 282/hicap , 252, and now ear 912. Have tried powerlines, isotek, kharma power cords with precedent gear.  I doubt all the opinions here are done only by exact testing....but experience can give an idea on what upgrades we can expect with power cords , interconnects, better dac or ps, etc....

But if you want to buy a 10k power cord on a nait5i, why not, it is your money man!

10k power cord!?! Your dealer's ripping you off! ��

Keler Pierre posted:

i was referring to the power cord.  I wanted just to say that if someone has a nac282 /supercap and want to add a sarum t power cord on it, for quite the same money i would prefer to buy the 252 with powerlite,  which, for me, would sound better than 282/supercap/ sarum t power cord.  I have not tested, but i am at 99% sure of it.  Of course it is only my opinion...

I prefer the 252 to the 282 in simple terms, but I have heard systems where the 282 sounds better. The source is obviously gong to have a signifcant bearing on the outcome. Also it might actually be better to put the better power chord on a different bit of kit - usually the power amp, perhaps surprisingly.

I expect that I will have the chance to try this fairly soon, and if I do will let you know the result. 

Dave J posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Dave J posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Chris Dolan posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Because in the case of sarum t for nac 282,  the 252 with powerlite is better.

Is that based on actually listening to the two alternatives, presumably you are referring to the Sarum T on the source to preamp or do you mean a power cable?

Either way, although I confess that I have not done that comparison but have owned all of the bits except powerline lite (so will assume poweline full fat on the SupercapDR for the 252) or Sarum T interconnect (so read SSA) though I do have a power cable - and assuming a SupercapDR on the 282 as well, I think that I would probably find the 282 combination preferable 

I do think that the differences are better heard with a 552 though  

i was referring to the power cord.  I wanted just to say that if someone has a nac282 /supercap and want to add a sarum t power cord on it, for quite the same money i would prefer to buy the 252 with powerlite,  which, for me, would sound better than 282/supercap/ sarum t power cord.  I have not tested, but i am at 99% sure of it.  Of course it is only my opinion...

It would worth having a go then! No point in speculating - opinions have little value unless they are informed...

well understood my captain!    i made my opinion with 20 years experience in audio and with a lot of naim gear that i have owned and own. I had 202, 282/hicap , 252, and now ear 912. Have tried powerlines, isotek, kharma power cords with precedent gear.  I doubt all the opinions here are done only by exact testing....but experience can give an idea on what upgrades we can expect with power cords , interconnects, better dac or ps, etc....

But if you want to buy a 10k power cord on a nait5i, why not, it is your money man!

10k power cord!?! Your dealer's ripping you off! ��

it was an exaggeration but 10k power cord exist.  nac 282 costs 5k GBP, chord sarum t power cord costs 2k, so around 40% of the 282. nac 252 costs 6,3 k.  

Keler Pierre posted:

Dave J posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Dave J posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Chris Dolan posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Because in the case of sarum t for nac 282,  the 252 with powerlite is better.

Is that based on actually listening to the two alternatives, presumably you are referring to the Sarum T on the source to preamp or do you mean a power cable?

Either way, although I confess that I have not done that comparison but have owned all of the bits except powerline lite (so will assume poweline full fat on the SupercapDR for the 252) or Sarum T interconnect (so read SSA) though I do have a power cable - and assuming a SupercapDR on the 282 as well, I think that I would probably find the 282 combination preferable 

I do think that the differences are better heard with a 552 though  

i was referring to the power cord.  I wanted just to say that if someone has a nac282 /supercap and want to add a sarum t power cord on it, for quite the same money i would prefer to buy the 252 with powerlite,  which, for me, would sound better than 282/supercap/ sarum t power cord.  I have not tested, but i am at 99% sure of it.  Of course it is only my opinion...

It would worth having a go then! No point in speculating - opinions have little value unless they are informed...

well understood my captain!    i made my opinion with 20 years experience in audio and with a lot of naim gear that i have owned and own. I had 202, 282/hicap , 252, and now ear 912. Have tried powerlines, isotek, kharma power cords with precedent gear.  I doubt all the opinions here are done only by exact testing....but experience can give an idea on what upgrades we can expect with power cords , interconnects, better dac or ps, etc....

But if you want to buy a 10k power cord on a nait5i, why not, it is your money man!

10k power cord!?! Your dealer's ripping you off! ��

it was an exaggeration but 10k power cord exist.  nac 282 costs 5k GBP, chord sarum t power cord costs 2k, so around 40% of the 282. nac 252 costs 6,3 k.  

Well there you go.

But, actually, given the fairly widespread antipathy towards the 252 on the forum, that might be an interesting comparison. Maybe not clear cut?

Dave J posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Dave J posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Dave J posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Chris Dolan posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Because in the case of sarum t for nac 282,  the 252 with powerlite is better.

Is that based on actually listening to the two alternatives, presumably you are referring to the Sarum T on the source to preamp or do you mean a power cable?

Either way, although I confess that I have not done that comparison but have owned all of the bits except powerline lite (so will assume poweline full fat on the SupercapDR for the 252) or Sarum T interconnect (so read SSA) though I do have a power cable - and assuming a SupercapDR on the 282 as well, I think that I would probably find the 282 combination preferable 

I do think that the differences are better heard with a 552 though  

i was referring to the power cord.  I wanted just to say that if someone has a nac282 /supercap and want to add a sarum t power cord on it, for quite the same money i would prefer to buy the 252 with powerlite,  which, for me, would sound better than 282/supercap/ sarum t power cord.  I have not tested, but i am at 99% sure of it.  Of course it is only my opinion...

It would worth having a go then! No point in speculating - opinions have little value unless they are informed...

well understood my captain!    i made my opinion with 20 years experience in audio and with a lot of naim gear that i have owned and own. I had 202, 282/hicap , 252, and now ear 912. Have tried powerlines, isotek, kharma power cords with precedent gear.  I doubt all the opinions here are done only by exact testing....but experience can give an idea on what upgrades we can expect with power cords , interconnects, better dac or ps, etc....

But if you want to buy a 10k power cord on a nait5i, why not, it is your money man!

10k power cord!?! Your dealer's ripping you off! ��

it was an exaggeration but 10k power cord exist.  nac 282 costs 5k GBP, chord sarum t power cord costs 2k, so around 40% of the 282. nac 252 costs 6,3 k.  

Well there you go.

But, actually, given the fairly widespread antipathy towards the 252 on the forum, that might be an interesting comparison. Maybe not clear cut?

widespread antipathy towards the 252?   a minority prefer the 282, it is what i often see on the forum.  like a minority prefer the 250 vs 300.....so if you are in this camp, i can understand putting a sarum t cord on 282.

As for me, i had the 282/hicap and after a 252 : the upgrade in sound quality was immediate for me.  But finally the 252 had not stayed because i discovered the ear 912 preamp which gave me a better tonal balance and fluency, with same dynamics.

But the 252 opened the soundstage, gave more focus and bass vs the 282/hicap and i have not heard something missing .

Yep, widespread. I went from a 52 to a 552 so never got involved in the discussion but anyway, as you've jumped ship, well...

Dave J posted:

Yep, widespread. I went from a 52 to a 552 so never got involved in the discussion but anyway, as you've jumped ship, well...

i see you have chord music streaming cable:  are you satisfied with this cable?  what was your ethernet cable before?  i am curious about investing in chord ethernet later. I had audioquest diamond but sold it and have 2 vodka instead. Maybe i will upgrade the last ethernet to my nds with signature tuned array.  I have signature tuned array interconnects and phono, perhaps i will upgrade to super sarum too, only interconnects .

Keler Pierre posted:

Dave J posted:

Yep, widespread. I went from a 52 to a 552 so never got involved in the discussion but anyway, as you've jumped ship, well...

i see you have chord music streaming cable:  are you satisfied with this cable?  what was your ethernet cable before?  i am curious about investing in chord ethernet later. I had audioquest diamond but sold it and have 2 vodka instead. Maybe i will upgrade the last ethernet to my nds with signature tuned array.  I have signature tuned array interconnects and phono, perhaps i will upgrade to super sarum too, only interconnects .

I would like to make a small suggestion.

Think of changing cables as options to see if they make a difference in your system and if that difference constitutes, to you, an upgrade.  Calling any change an upgrade based on the price of the component suggests expectation bias, whereas an open mind might be a better approach.  I've heard some good expensive cables, but I've also heard some bad ones.

Keler Pierre posted:

Dave J posted:

Yep, widespread. I went from a 52 to a 552 so never got involved in the discussion but anyway, as you've jumped ship, well...

i see you have chord music streaming cable:  are you satisfied with this cable?  what was your ethernet cable before?  i am curious about investing in chord ethernet later. I had audioquest diamond but sold it and have 2 vodka instead. Maybe i will upgrade the last ethernet to my nds with signature tuned array.  I have signature tuned array interconnects and phono, perhaps i will upgrade to super sarum too, only interconnects .

I'm delighted with it, it wasn't on the agenda until I heard the damned thing.

sunbeamgls posted:

I would like to make a small suggestion.

Think of changing cables as options to see if they make a difference in your system and if that difference constitutes, to you, an upgrade.  Calling any change an upgrade based on the price of the component suggests expectation bias, whereas an open mind might be a better approach.  I've heard some good expensive cables, but I've also heard some bad ones.

The perception of an upgrade based on the price of any component or cables is certainly a valid observation. It may not necessarily happen all the time but the tendency to favour a particular component or cable and regarding it as a superior design will be prevalent. I have said before that a (fixed) preconceived idea of a better or superior sound from a costlier component or cable may be formed even before a listening session. There is a possibility the impressions may not change after a listen as the preconception might have been firmly entrenched in the mind of the user.

Keler Pierre posted:

Dave J posted:

Yep, widespread. I went from a 52 to a 552 so never got involved in the discussion but anyway, as you've jumped ship, well...

i see you have chord music streaming cable:  are you satisfied with this cable?  what was your ethernet cable before?  i am curious about investing in chord ethernet later. I had audioquest diamond but sold it and have 2 vodka instead. Maybe i will upgrade the last ethernet to my nds with signature tuned array.  I have signature tuned array interconnects and phono, perhaps i will upgrade to super sarum too, only interconnects .

I went from an Audioquest Vodka Ethernet cable on my NDS/555Dr to a Chord Indigo Aray And the Indigo Aray was vastly better. I can't imagine how much better the Chord Music Ethernet is! I have heard the Chord Music analog RCA Interconnect compared to Sarum super Aray and it was a huge difference !  Love to hear what the Chord Music or Sarum T Ethernet sounds like . 

bdnyc posted:

When you have some time with the cables, perhaps you could assess the sonic impact of using these Chord AC power cords in your system context for the rest of us?

Bruce

I think that I have had sufficient time to venture some comment now 

Just a bit of background, I mainly listen to vinyl on my LP12 which is a fairly high (if not entirely conventional) specification comprising LP12 with Woodsong wenge plinth, Klimax Radikal, Keel sub-chassis, Urika phono stage, Naim Aro and Linn Krystal cartridge - all enhanced with Tiger-Paw Khan top plate, Tranquility and sKale counterweight.

The Chord Sarum Super ARAY power chord was connected to the Radikal; the Naim amps use Powerlines. The interconnects are Chord Sarum Super ARAY and the speaker cable is NACA5 to Kudos Super 20s.

When I changed the SSA to the Sarum T power chord on the Radikal there were elements of the music that immediately sounded better - clearer and bigger - but overall it was a little less coherent and a bit distracting. I was focusing on the good bits rather than enjoying the music.

I went through the process of changing back and forth a couple of times, and it was apparent that although the cohesion was not quite as good at that time the Sarum T was giving things that the SSA wasn't and it became more compelling, almost demanding that you put on another record.

Also the direction of travel was clearly the right one. It did not take very long before the Sarum T was simply better, and there was no need or desire to swap back to the SSA. As more music was played the sound of the system evolved and things fell into place as more a natural and cohesive presentation, but not as it had been previously with the SSA as it was more of a performance with greater presence. More perceived pace and flow - more real.

The mindset switched to then just enjoying listening to music as I mentioned at the beginning. There have been numerous occasions when I have suddenly thought "Wow - this is amazingly good" without really thinking about why.

The completely stupid thing though was it was very good before the change. I wouldn't want to live without the Sarum T and go back to SSA, but I think that I could - although I would need to listen with a standard cable first and then change up to SSA!! I already know that I could not give up the SSA power cable - as I tried and failed.

Although it is, in some ways, rather annoying and galling that Chord have improved their cable so significantly so recently after the SSA came out, I am actually very pleased that they did.

Chris

Thanks for taking the time to create this thoughtful overview Chris.     In my experience, as you introduce higher resolution products into a system, it can take some time for everything to fall into place.    Now, whether this is really break in on an engineering level, or whether you as the listener need time to become comfortable with the new perspectives on music that your system offers, that is an endless philosophical debate that has no clear answer in my mind.

Enjoy the ride,

Bruce

The thing about cables ...

As Touraj of Vertere says (please check his interview on vertere website) : "after the source, there is nothing (amp, preamp, etc) there that can improve on the signal". The only thing that can happen, is interference, modification, changing the signal, effectively ruining the signal.

According to Touraj.

"And cables do that the most"    (ruining the signal) 

Also had a email from Naim that said the same thing.

The better amps from Naim are better (552 better than 282 for example), because they do less damage to the signal. (so 552 does less harm to the signal after the source than a 282)

analogmusic posted:

The thing about cables ...

As Touraj of Vertere says (please check his interview on vertere website) : "after the source, there is nothing (amp, preamp, etc) there that can improve on the signal". The only thing that can happen, is interference, modification, changing the signal, effectively ruining the signal.

According to Touraj.

"And cables do that the most"    (ruining the signal) 

 

Says the man who makes a living from selling expensive cables.

analogmusic posted:

The thing about cables ...

As Touraj of Vertere says (please check his interview on vertere website) : "after the source, there is nothing (amp, preamp, etc) there that can improve on the signal". The only thing that can happen, is interference, modification, changing the signal, effectively ruining the signal.

According to Touraj.

"And cables do that the most"    (ruining the signal) 

 

...and this is also one of the reasons why the 272 is so good...

G

I have purchased some vertere cables, (USB, interconnects - including DIN/XLR)

It's hard to argue with what he says.... Vertere cables make an audible and appreciable difference (in terms of getting out of the way and letting more of the signal through)

I did order Chord Music Cables for my system! RCA  Interconnects from Naim NDS to Preamp and XLRs from Preamp to Amp. Big wow!  Not fully burned in yet, but sounded great from the get go! Have gotten a better in the week that they have been installed. Chord has a real winner in these cables. Music flowing from the NDS sound even better now, more real &  life like. Or to put it simply,  much more enjoyable to listen to. 

musicfan51 posted:

I did order Chord Music Cables for my system! RCA  Interconnects from Naim NDS to Preamp and XLRs from Preamp to Amp. Big wow!  Not fully burned in yet, but sounded great from the get go! Have gotten a better in the week that they have been installed. Chord has a real winner in these cables. Music flowing from the NDS sound even better now, more real &  life like. Or to put it simply,  much more enjoyable to listen to. 

Congrats, Enjoy Your Music!

And the pricing is relevant!

Chord Music RCA from £3800.00 (UK RRP)

Chord Music DIN from £3500.00 (UK RRP
Chord Music XLR from £5500.00 (UK RRP)

Wow! 3.5K for the Source

And if one is rocking Naim's , 500/300 Amps, that's two more !!!

3.5 K + 8.0 K = 11.5 K GBP

That Sounds about right!

NDS ~ 7 K

555 PS ~ 6.5 K

13.5 K ~ Source
11.5 K ~ WIRES

Less than a loaded LP12, a bargain when you think about it! 

Your Money may be Long, But Life is Short!

Enjoy Your MUSIC!

Allante93!

Allante93 posted:

musicfan51 posted:

I did order Chord Music Cables for my system! RCA  Interconnects from Naim NDS to Preamp and XLRs from Preamp to Amp. Big wow!  Not fully burned in yet, but sounded great from the get go! Have gotten a better in the week that they have been installed. Chord has a real winner in these cables. Music flowing from the NDS sound even better now, more real &  life like. Or to put it simply,  much more enjoyable to listen to. 

Congrats, Enjoy Your Music!

And the pricing is relevant!

Chord Music RCA from £3800.00 (UK RRP)

Chord Music DIN from £3500.00 (UK RRP
Chord Music XLR from £5500.00 (UK RRP)

 

Wow! 3.5K for the Source

And if one is rocking Naim's , 500/300 Amps, that's two more !!!

3.5 K + 8.0 K = 11.5 K GBP

That Sounds about right!

NDS ~ 7 K

555 PS ~ 6.5 K

13.5 K ~ Source
11.5 K ~ WIRES

Less than a loaded LP12, a bargain when you think about it! 

Your Money may be Long, But Life is Short!

Enjoy Your MUSIC!

Allante93!

 

 

 

My stereo is my only hobby. It has been for a long time. People have more expensive hobbies such as boats, antique cars and such!  It gives me something to obsess about ! Ha! And music relaxes me!   Though after this outlay of cash,  upgrades are taking  a vacation for a good good while!