I'm glad you like the switch. If the nas and the streamer are connected via the switch the router won't make a difference to the sound. The best router I've found is the Apple AirPort Extreme. Easy to set up and reliable. 

As Nigel says glad you are enjoying it. I have found so far I prefer the sound of Cisco 2960 and Cisco 3560 switches when connected directly to my Streamer... all very subtle of course but certainly there...

S

Of course if the Nas and Streamer goes via the switch.....your absolutly right.

But,looking for new music via Tidal ect,than you goes via the router.

My son's friend has a Unitiqute2/Linn Magik 109/Naca5 6m.Ehternet-cables goes from the wall to the router to the Unitiqute2.

He has noname ehternet cables,I take one Vodka and put in between the wall and the router,after the router to the Qute2 it was the same noname cable.The SQ was much,much better.And,this was before the router.......he has only Tidal,no Nas,as many young guys here.

Because of that we start to think about a Cisco-router when we use Tidal ect :-).

If you need a new router and you're network savvy look at a pfSense box, it will run on most Intel hardware and you could actually build your own :-

https://www.pfsense.org/

I purchased a SG4860, its one of my best recent purchases.

If you have a Cisco switch you'll be able to create different VLANs for different functions, I've got a LAN management, User, Guest, IOT, DMZ and Voice VLAN, also look at Ubiquity for Wi-Fi if needed.

IMO it won't make any improvement to your SQ.

Simon,I look at picture of the 3560-switch,it looks as the 2960.What's the difference between this to switches, 3560 vs 2960?

After that,back to the router ;-) ...... I think when I use Tidal and goes via the router,it must be better with a real high quality-router.The example with the Vodka-cable talk in that direction......I'm I wrong here?

Have you any advice to give me/us here.

Similar to Nogbad, but I went with Untangle at 5 bucks a month its a joy to use.

Peder, the 3560 is a layer 3 switch... i.e. a router switch    The 2960 is a just layer 2 switch, i.e. No router capability.

Peder posted:

Hello all......

Hope you understand my english ��.We are around 15 guys who has the Cisco 2960 switch here in Sweden, (as I know).Thank you Simon and HungryHalibut for the recommendation.

All of us think is better than the Netgear GS108T that we have before,we have also Audioquest Vodka,Cinnamon or Chord C-Stream ehternet cables.

Used in system from active Isobariks,active DBL's with six-pack and down.Linn Klimax DS,Naim NDS and down is the streamers involved.

Than we start to think about a preloved high quality router to put in with the Cisco 2960-switch,a Cisco-router of course.Maybe this can put up the SQ even more ��.

I think Simon has a lot of experience in the Cisco-world,or anybody else.Are we thinking in the right direction here,can this bring us even more SQ in our systems.

And if so,can you give us any recommendation on a preloved Cisco-router that we can try.

Hope you can lead us in the right direction here........thanks.

/Peder

 

 

 

Is this the switch with a built in linear power supply?

Simon,Whaaoo ;-) ,now we are talking......okej,Great.

Have you compare that 3560 Cisco-router to a ordinary home router with the 2960,and I talk of course only about SQ.

I did a search and there are a lot of 3560's 8-ports,and many different numbers before and after 3560.

What model do you have or recomend,and have you any ide about  how much to pay for a 3560 preloved.Is it a 100 or 1000bitrouter?

I see they stopped making it in 2013 but support it to 2018.

Great to have this information,cause a friend who has NDS/52/active filter/6*Nap135/DBL and a lot of supercaps/Name Fraime and nearly topspec LP12.......all served at Naim last year.Ehternet-cable Audioquest Diamond and Vodka.

The Cisco 2960 did a lot for the SQ in his system,so we will try this to and see what happens........maybe in SQ.

He had before this Naimsystem a toppspec Linnsystem with Active Komris,8*Solo,Klimax Kontroll,Klimax DS and the same LP12.

He's more happy with this older but new ;-) Naimsystem.

And now it's early in the morning,so I say......Good Morning to you all.

/Peder.

Peder, there is no difference I have heard in SQ from a connected streamer between 3560 and 2960. The 3560 is not a home type broadband edge router and so you wouldn't use it as that... but you could set it up to route between your own subnets and vlans if your internet broadband router supported statics address routing tables or certain routing protocols... such that it would inter operate with the 3560. But unless you had a specific need to do this I suggest you wouldn't do this.

having multiple subnets and vlans is fine, but routing between them and using common services like DHCP, SSDP etc is not always straightforward so you would really need the know how and understanding to setup.

i use the 3560 where I need to provide PoE, as my version of the switch supports it. PoE I think is great, you use it power certain connected Ethernet devices like wireless access points, some appliances, and cascaded switches that can be powered by PoE.. this cuts down on the number of SMPS you need on your mains as you can power from your Ethernet switch directly.

Thats all good stuff but you dont *need* a cisco router to have PoE.

The only way I could fathom that a router *could* make a difference is if it was close to the hifi and had a noisy power supply, but on that basis we might as well eat take out every night so we don't need fridges and freezers. Dag nam it this hobby is getting out of hand.

My personal opinion within the world of streaming is to concentrate on ensuring you have a robust network, an excellent streamer/player than can handle all of todays variants (to my mind this pretty much means a computer of some kind) with excellent controls and your traditional flavour of hifi to play it back.

At some point you guys will be asking which ISP sounds 'best'

Indeed of course you don't need a Cisco router for PoE... I do because it suits my setup, and I get the SQ boost I enjoy as well.

however in my opinion one of the real benefits of PoE is help facilitate a reliable and effective wifi setup... it's a lot easier to site and position multiple  quality ESSID WAPs with single runs of Cat5e rather than have to use powerleads (and wall wart SMPS) as well. Reading these forums I suspect one of the biggest frustrations from streaming comes from sub optimal wifi that is collocated  on a singular consumer broadband router... to my mind this just is not ideal.

Careful, Simon, you're in danger of starting another frenzy of retail therapy here!!! I predict the first request for your recommendation for a PoE WAP is only minutes away 

I'm overcome with excitement over Gary's suggestion of the best sounding ISP,  someone should start a thread,  then we can expand that with a focus group thread drift into audiophool phone cables.  

Chris, you spoil sport... it was a sort of a game ... but the ones I would recommend have already been mentioned 

Obviously not really about SQ, but more about rock solid hidef wifi streaming, and minimising the risk of the 'room not found' message 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Chris, you spoil sport... it was a sort of a game ... but the ones I would recommend have already been mentioned 

Obviously not really about SQ, but more about rock solid hidef wifi streaming, and minimising the risk of the 'room not found' message 

I don't know what it does, but I want one! 

garyi posted:

 

 

At some point you guys will be asking which ISP sounds 'best'

:-) ...... Attention To Detail is importent,my experience since 1983 is that all things matters.

As many of you knows,the best thing is to be "Openminded"  ;-).

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Peder, there is no difference I have heard in SQ from a connected streamer between 3560 and 2960. The 3560 is not a home type broadband edge router and so you wouldn't use it as that... but you could set it up to route between your own subnets and vlans if your internet broadband router supported statics address routing tables or certain routing protocols... such that it would inter operate with the 3560. But unless you had a specific need to do this I suggest you wouldn't do this.

having multiple subnets and vlans is fine, but routing between them and using common services like DHCP, SSDP etc is not always straightforward so you would really need the know how and understanding to setup.

i use the 3560 where I need to provide PoE, as my version of the switch supports it. PoE I think is great, you use it power certain connected Ethernet devices like wireless access points, some appliances, and cascaded switches that can be powered by PoE.. this cuts down on the number of SMPS you need on your mains as you can power from your Ethernet switch directly.

Simon,thank you for your answer,I know a little about this.......my friend alot.

He shall read your answer and than we come back to you,if it's okey,but this is interesting.

One thing,you write "cuts down on the number of SMPS",only this is a good thing.

/Peder :-)

Where is possible to find a switch Cisco WS-C2960-8TC-L and what kind of price does it have ?

Try eBay the switch is EOS there should be loads of them

Josey McWales posted:

Where is possible to find a switch Cisco WS-C2960-8TC-L and what kind of price does it have ?

cisco catalyst 2960 costs around 700 dollars, netgear gs105 recommended by naim is 50 dollars.  You will hear perhaps a very little difference , so little that i don't think it is worth the difference in price. But all members, on a lot of forums, will tell you the same thing: put a good linear ps on your switch and nas, an ethernet isolator, and you will have a huge improvement. 

A little if you just put ifi power on your switch, a bigger with ethernet isolator before the streamer, and bigger too with linear ps as uptone audio on switch and nas.  Not to forget a good quality lan cord to your streamer. 

cisco catalyst 2960 costs around 700 dollars, netgear gs105 recommended by naim is 50 dollars.  You will hear perhaps a very little difference , so little that i don't think it is worth the difference in price. 

Keler Pierre,have you really compare this two switches when you write this...? ....... and,

the price of a "preloved Cisco 2960 today is around 40-80 dollars on fleabay.

Take Attention to Detail with the installation of the Cisco,and you have a big improvement in SQ.Here in Sweden we all have a much better SQ,even my headphonesystem had a better SQ.

And yes,we all have had the Netgear-switches earlier with Ifi-power and much better things.The SQ can  be a little better in one house,and much more in another.....maybe it depends on the network....I don't know.BUT,it always get better.

We have the Cisco in middle-spec system to topp-spec system.

Even guys in Germany with topp-spec Linn systems,who write on our swedish Linn-forum say the same about the Cisco.....better SQ.

The Cisco is cheap preloved,try it.You can sell it if you don't like it and don't lose any money.

/Peder :-)

Peder posted:

cisco catalyst 2960 costs around 700 dollars, netgear gs105 recommended by naim is 50 dollars.  You will hear perhaps a very little difference , so little that i don't think it is worth the difference in price. 

Keler Pierre,have you really compare this two switches when you write this...? ....... and,

the price of a "preloved Cisco 2960 today is around 40-80 dollars on fleabay.

Take Attention to Detail with the installation of the Cisco,and you have a big improvement in SQ.Here in Sweden we all have a much better SQ,even my headphonesystem had a better SQ.

And yes,we all have had the Netgear-switches earlier with Ifi-power and much better things.The SQ can  be a little better in one house,and much more in another.....maybe it depends on the network....I don't know.BUT,it always get better.

We have the Cisco in middle-spec system to topp-spec system.

Even guys in Germany with topp-spec Linn systems,who write on our swedish Linn-forum say the same about the Cisco.....better SQ.

The Cisco is cheap preloved,try it.You can sell it if you don't like it and don't lose any money.

/Peder :-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i have not tried it but read a lot on different hifi forums like devialet, naim audio, whatsbestforum, audiosharks....and a majority of users say that the difference is minimal, some say they heard nothing.  I think the most important is first ethernet isolator like acoustic revive or etalon or optical bridge, after good linear ps like uptone audio or hdplex on switches and nas, and good lan before the streamer( ifi power is minimal improvement).

The second problem is that second hand cisco 2960 present sometimes technical problems: i found some users complaining about.

Here, in France, i heard some naim users that can't tell if they heard or not heard improvement with the cisco vs netgear.  The same for the aqvox aq-8 switch, presented as audiophile switch.  But some found improvement.... not all.

But you enjoy this switch and it is good for you. Perhaps i will try one day.... I recommend just first the ethernet isolators and good linear ps, because i found nobody say it doesn't improve clearly. For myself it was a big improvement, better than 555dr over xps on my nds.

Keler Pierre posted:

 

 

 

 

 

 

i have not tried it but read a lot on different hifi forums like devialet, naim audio, whatsbestforum, audiosharks....and a majority of users say that the difference is minimal, some say they heard nothing.  I think the most important is first ethernet isolator like acoustic revive or etalon or optical bridge, after good linear ps like uptone audio or hdplex on switches and nas, and good lan before the streamer( ifi power is minimal improvement).

The second problem is that second hand cisco 2960 present sometimes technical problems: i found some users complaining about.

Here, in France, i heard some naim users that can't tell if they heard or not heard improvement with the cisco vs netgear.  The same for the aqvox aq-8 switch, presented as audiophile switch.  But some found improvement.... not all.

But you enjoy this switch and it is good for you. Perhaps i will try one day.... I recommend just first the ethernet isolators and good linear ps, because i found nobody say it doesn't improve clearly. For myself it was a big improvement, better than 555dr over xps on my nds.

 

If you see earlier/a bit up here,I write that my friend has a NDS in he's system to.And the improvement in his system was big. I have read about 50 people who have tested this Cisco,and 3-4 wasn't happy about it.

It can depend on many things,this Cisco's came out 2007 so maybe they got an older one and must recapp it for example.

Other thing,you can NOT do a fast A to B test,you must have the Cisco running for at least 4-5 days,...... and,as I say earlier "Attention to Detail".

I have seen so many horrible example when people testing things,even some dealers don't know what they are doing.

The produkt you shall test must stand exactly on the same place as the other,you take the first away and put the other on the same place.You shall use the same powercord,the same hole in the powerstrip or the wall.The same ehternetcable and the same direction.The same contacthole in the router for the ehternetcable.

And,( you don't have this problem in England ) I don't know who explain it in english,but I try.In Sweden and other countrys you can change the powerplugg in the powerstrip 180 degrees.This do a lot to the SQ,one way sounds better,you can check this with instruments to.Hope you understand what I mean.

This was a little of what I mean with Attention To Detail.If you do this you hear difference between this switches I promise you.

You say technical problems,and yes it's second hand.Because of that we have take/buy our Cisco's from a company who's have a 26-step testprogram,just to avoid that type of problem.They also have 3 years warranty,and under that time if you got problem,they send you a new one and take the other back.

They also have Cisco-educated technical people there.

We paid around 100-110 dollars each,and than we know exactly what we buy. A tip this early sundaymorning ;-) .

I would certainly not use a device like an Acoustic Revive.. I find as they are passive they put the Ethernet connection out of spec and can interfere with the physical link negotiation.. also I heard a notable deteriation on connected equipment when in use.  mine was a total waste of money and sits at the bottom of a drawer now.

As far as linear powersupplies on switches, I say that is ridiculous ... a good quality SMPS should be absolutely fine. Use a quality switch with good internal galvanic isolation,  good decoupling, published noise and EMC specifications and a good quality physical clock...

Yes the differences are subtle, but are similar (hardly surprisingly) to using different so called audiophile Ethernet leads, and can be more deterministic and certainly a lot cheaper using a used quality switch.

BTW I use my little Netgear as an emergency backup residing in my bits and pieces drawer... but I moved it from audio related duties a long time ago... but obviously each to their own.

BTW Peder I advise against promising people WILL hear SQ improvements as there will always be those who won't ... that fact that you have and you write about it, and plenty of others have on this forum and now I understand elsewhere have also done this is enough. Those with an open mind and curious  may  then try if they haven't already.. it might not suit all of course and indeed a few have stated they don't like the SQ 'change'.. but more appear to have had a positive outcome..  the key thing as you say is have an open mind.....