Cisco Router to match Cisco WS-C2960-8TC-L

Pierre,I say earlier you shall NOT do a fast A to B-test,you shall at least have the Cisco running 4-5 days.Others have saying the same thing in the Posh-thread.

All these things,. read it again, I write about in the earlier input 2017 05 14. 7,52.Also give more advice later here,about installations.

Give it a chance for a week,if you want to sell it after that..... no problem. .

Peder posted:

Pierre,I say earlier you shall NOT do a fast A to B-test,you shall at least have the Cisco running 4-5 days.Others have saying the same thing in the Posh-thread.

All these things,. read it again, I write about in the earlier input 2017 05 14. 7,52.Also give more advice later here,about installations.

Give it a chance for a week,if you want to sell it after that..... no problem. .

 

i is running 24 hours and you think it will change in 4/5 days. Perhaps it will change a little bit, but no dramatically, it is not possible.  the only important change is for cartridges, no electronics or power supplies. The cisco is used ....

The difference is important vs cisco and netgear / tp ps. The silence between the notes, the naturalness of the sound , the tones...is quite shocking when i put back my past switch. The netgear / tp ps is not the netgear gs105 anymore.

The dynamic on the cisco is forceful and too forward. On the beginning, it happens to be better on the ears, but after , it becomes tiring.

I believe you that after few days, the cisco can become softer and easier to the ears, but no at this point. But it will be not enough for me: i hear more silence between notes and more details with the netgear / tp.

If you know someone interested, i am selling it. You can give my mail.

But thanks you a lot for your help. But i am not the only one to be not in love with the cisco...I am happy to have tested it and it will be not difficult to sell.

Without my tp ps, i would keep the cisco i think.

Keler Pierre posted:

Peder posted:

Pierre,I say earlier you shall NOT do a fast A to B-test,you shall at least have the Cisco running 4-5 days.Others have saying the same thing in the Posh-thread.

All these things,. read it again, I write about in the earlier input 2017 05 14. 7,52.Also give more advice later here,about installations.

Give it a chance for a week,if you want to sell it after that..... no problem. .

 

i is running 24 hours and you think it will change in 4/5 days. Perhaps it will change a little bit, but no dramatically, it is not possible.  the only important change is for cartridges, no electronics or power supplies. The cisco is used ....

The difference is important vs cisco and netgear / tp ps. The silence between the notes, the naturalness of the sound , the tones...is quite shocking when i put back my past switch. The netgear / tp ps is not the netgear gs105 anymore.

The dynamic on the cisco is forceful and too forward. On the beginning, it happens to be better on the ears, but after , it becomes tiring.

I believe you that after few days, the cisco can become softer and easier to the ears, but no at this point. But it will be not enough for me: i hear more silence between notes and more details with the netgear / tp.

If you know someone interested, i am selling it. You can give my mail.

But thanks you a lot for your help. But i am not the only one to be not in love with the cisco...I am happy to have tested it and it will be not difficult to sell.

Without my tp ps, i would keep the cisco i think.

Many people on this forum say the same,better after 4-5 days.....most in the music flow area,the naturalness.Think Naim, when you put the power on again,even used equipment take at least 3 days for full performance.Exactly,just because the Cisco is used, you perhaps need a longer warm uptime for the caps.

I have had contact with over 50 people who has the Cisco 2960, only 3-4 are not 100% positive about it.Maybe your Cisco isn't "fresch", something is wrong with it.As you remember I say that the Company I buy my Cisco from,they say that some Cisco's failed in the 26-step testprogram.Maybe your Cisco need a recapp

I see that you didn't buy from that Company I told you about,who has this 26-step testprogram ect.

Our experience is,that with the Cisco the silence/blackness between the notes,the tones are more naturalness,the music flow is better and also the dynamic and timing is better in a positiv way.

Also the group in Germany with top-spec systems have the same experience with the Cisco as we have.

As I say,maybe something wrong with your Cisco,you can also look how old it is,on the backside you have a date.

And this is important,I have write about it in my input 2017 05 14. 7,52. Look there about the powercord-contact in the powerstrip (mainsblock) 180degree. Hope you understand what I mean.

The German-group told us it was much,much better if you have the contact in the mainsblock the right way.We hear it too.

ps:As I say earlier,we all here in Sweden has had the Netgear switch gs 105 and GS108T with Ifi powersupple and better-> earlier.

/Peder

One other thing,I told you earlier that one in our group has an NDS-streamer, and has a big improvement with the Cisco.He buy it from the company I told you about.

He buy a second one from fleabay for just 40 dollars,that Cisco was not as good as the first one.No one of us like't it,it sounds hard in the top end,and the musical flow was not natural.So you see,not every Cisco's is "fresch",maybe depend how old it is.....I don't know,maybe.

/Peder

Peder posted:

One other thing,I told you earlier that one in our group has an NDS-streamer, and has a big improvement with the Cisco.He buy it from the company I told you about.

He buy a second one from fleabay for just 40 dollars,that Cisco was not as good as the first one.No one of us like't it,it sounds hard in the top end,and the musical flow was not natural.So you see,not every Cisco's is "fresch",maybe depend how old it is.....I don't know,maybe.

/Peder

you may well be right Peder. i didn't get on as well as i expected with the Cisco switch i bought off the auction site. it just made my system sound 'wrong'.... 

so i was just one of the unlucky ones to end up with  a duff one i guess... so back to the simple, el cheapo Netgear 108 here...

enjoy

ken

ken c posted:

Peder posted:

One other thing,I told you earlier that one in our group has an NDS-streamer, and has a big improvement with the Cisco.He buy it from the company I told you about.

He buy a second one from fleabay for just 40 dollars,that Cisco was not as good as the first one.No one of us like't it,it sounds hard in the top end,and the musical flow was not natural.So you see,not every Cisco's is "fresch",maybe depend how old it is.....I don't know,maybe.

/Peder

you may well be right Peder. i didn't get on as well as i expected with the Cisco switch i bought off the auction site. it just made my system sound 'wrong'.... 

so i was just one of the unlucky ones to end up with  a duff one i guess... so back to the simple, el cheapo Netgear 108 here...

enjoy

ken

 

happy to read it. I think the cisco is more dynamic and forward, and better than netgear gs105 alone. But the tp ps , around 400 linear ps, put the netgear in another world.

For run in and changing dramatically in 4 days, i don't believe it. I am in hifi since 25 years, had a lot of gear in my home, and never heard an important change in a character of amps, preamps or sources after 100 hours or more run in. The change is important after 4/5 hours, after it is minimal.

The company i checked is serious, i have made some research before. 

The problem is that most users in naim forum are searching typical naim sound, dynamic and a little hard too: the cisco is like that.  But why not, it is just not my sound, i use an all tube preamp to compensate the hardness of naim. Dynamics are more natural to me with it, not too forced and forward. But i can understand that rock fans like typical naim sound.

Keler Pierre,I'm haven't time to answer right now,but we can agree that we don't agree .

Read my profil so you see my experience also

Peder posted:

One other thing,I told you earlier that one in our group has an NDS-streamer, and has a big improvement with the Cisco.He buy it from the company I told you about.

He buy a second one from fleabay for just 40 dollars,that Cisco was not as good as the first one.No one of us like't it,it sounds hard in the top end,and the musical flow was not natural.So you see,not every Cisco's is "fresch",maybe depend how old it is.....I don't know,maybe.

/Peder

the vast majority like naim amps with naim preamps, not me. The company i checked has positive feedbacks and looks serious. Your company never responded to my mails.

As for changing dramatically the character after 4/5 days, i don't believe it. I am in hifi since 25 years...

The cisco sounded better than the netgear alone, no problem, in all areas. So it is not defective.

But the netgear with my big linear ps sounded more natural just, by a little margin but enough to hear quickly the difference. The cisco sounded more dynamic but tiring to my ears, as can sound an all naim system to me!   but it is just me, i can't say the cisco is not better or better!

Peder posted:

Keler Pierre,I'm haven't time to answer right now,but we can agree that we don't agree .

Read my profil so you see my experience also

you are right, but it isn't a problem. Each experience and ears are different, nobody has the undisputed truth.

Peder posted:

Keler Pierre,I'm haven't time to answer right now,but we can agree that we don't agree .

Read my profil so you see my experience also

i read your profile, you changed from tube world to the extreme opposite : naim system with linn or naim speakers.  If you like today naim amps with linn or naim speakers,  i understand more clearly that you like the cisco switch : it is exactly the same type of sound. But no problem, it is perfect for rock music.

I use ear 912 preamp with nap 300 dr and apertura speakers ( more like kharma speakers or sonus faber, but more quick). The sound is very different from yours.

To end the debate on this switch, if i change one day my netgear/ linear ps , i would go perhaps to  the aqvox aq-8 switch, new.  Just to compare it. If not pleased, i will return it like the cisco now.

Pierre - I wouldn't attach too much credence the 'sound' of the switch.. the main point being they better enable  the sound of the component attached to come through more unadulterated. Many like these devices because they soften the sound and take an otherwise slight digital edge from the attached streamer as well as allowing sound to be less forward - you could argue that is less 'Naim' sound like. It appears your experience is different from this which is fair enough. However they are only part of many components in the environment including cables that can add to the overall effect

S

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Pierre - I wouldn't attach too much credence the 'sound' of the switch.. the main point being they better enable  the sound of the component attached to come through more unadulterated. Many like these devices because they soften the sound and take an otherwise slight digital edge from the attached streamer as well as allowing sound to be less forward - you could argue that is less 'Naim' sound like. It appears your experience is different from this which is fair enough. However they are only part of many components in the environment including cables that can add to the overall effect

S

i use chord signature tuned array cables and kharma matrix power cords, so not bright or edgy cables. There is dynamic and exaggerated dynamic... Your are also a person who seems to prefer the typical naim sound, preferring even a bare cdx2 to a cdx2 / xps2.  But i respect your choice, it is just not my sound.

I am listening to modern jazz music in general,  where quickness, micro and macro dynamics are very important. But true tone colors also.  I don't  want to soften artificially the sound, but i am able to detect a little exaggerated dynamic like in an all naim system. Of course, it is only my opinion, but i am not the only one.

I've got one of these Ciscos and there is a long thread about it somewhere. I swapped from a Netgear with an ifi iPower and found the Cisco to give better flow and greater engagement. I described it, rather limply, as being 'nicer' and 'more real'. And that's in an all Naim system. Now I've forgotten about it, and it does its switchy thing happily. All these little tweaks, such as switches and Ethernet cables, are things at the margin, which can make one's system that bit more enjoyable. But they are not like black box changes, though they do get you closer to the soul of the music. The differences are hard to describe, which is why I ended up with 'nicer'. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

I've got one of these Ciscos and there is a long thread about it somewhere. I swapped from a Netgear with an ifi iPower and found the Cisco to give better flow and greater engagement. I described it, rather limply, as being 'nicer' and 'more real'. And that's in an all Naim system. Now I've forgotten about it, and it does its switchy thing happily. All these little tweaks, such as switches and Ethernet cables, are things at the margin, which can make one's system that bit more enjoyable. But they are not like black box changes, though they do get you closer to the soul of the music. The differences are hard to describe, which is why I ended up with 'nicer'. 

i have ifi power 12 v, that was before on the netgear, but the tp ps put my netgear in other world. It is not a tweak, it just puts off some noise and give the sound more dynamic , natural and spacy. It is the same thing when you add xps or 555 ps to a component : not a tweak at all!

To be frank I think you can over analyze this, surely as Nigel says it's about setting up your audio system that performs and produces the sonic character you like.. things like switches, cables, mains wiring, spurs, media servers and even power supplies etc are all tweaks which in their own way potentially reduce added artefacts or slightly modify a given performance .. however my point was more about being wary of a particular deterministic outcome for a given tweak... because not everyone will hear it that way.. and in my opinion it's certainly nothing to do with things like the so called  'Naim sound'.. which I think is more a myth than reality anyway.. I have certainly never found a common Naim attribute across all components....  CDS3 and CDX2 or NDS and NDAC or 202 and 282 and to some extent 252 and 552 .. they all have their own qualities and sonic characters .. or what some call 'voicing'..

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

 ....the so called  'Naim sound'.. which I think is more a myth than reality anyway..

Phew! I thought it was just me....

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I have certainly never found a common Naim attribute across all components....  CDS3 and CDX2 or NDS and NDAC or 202 and 282 and to some extent 252 and 552 .. they all have their own qualities and sonic characters .. or what some call 'voicing'..

100% - I have yet to understand what is 'Naim sound',   I do hear maybe more dynamics & 'life' compared to other makes, is this what we are talking about;  Linn for e.g. seems more polite,  Devialet   err  ??? best not said.     When I changed from CDSX2 to NDX was very obvious & different,  same when I've swapped my Supernait for the Nait-2, very different,   ditto a friend has just changed 200 to 250DR,  chalk & cheese.    In all each are different & I don't seem to hear (understand) where this common sound is.  Help Required.      

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

To be frank I think you can over analyze this, surely as Nigel says it's about setting up your audio system that performs and produces the sonic character you like.. things like switches, cables, mains wiring, spurs, media servers and even power supplies etc are all tweaks which in their own way potentially reduce added artefacts or slightly modify a given performance .. however my point was more about being wary of a particular deterministic outcome for a given tweak... because not everyone will hear it that way.. and in my opinion it's certainly nothing to do with things like the so called  'Naim sound'.. which I think is more a myth than reality anyway.. I have certainly never found a common Naim attribute across all components....  CDS3 and CDX2 or NDS and NDAC or 202 and 282 and to some extent 252 and 552 .. they all have their own qualities and sonic characters .. or what some call 'voicing'..

Yes, you are in a certain sense right: there is differences between naim components and the sound will vary. 

I am not criticizing naim sound because for 90% or more i love it. I had 202/200, 282/200 then 250, nap 300 dr today, cd5x, cdx2/xps2, nds/555dr.  Since i discovered naim in 2004, i have never left it and don't think i will do it. I love the drive, the life and urgency, the body, the prat...and found no other company to offer that.

But, i found just that with common speakers associated with naim, as naim, bw, proac, focal, with all naim components,  the sound for me is a little bright and agressive, the soundstage a little recessed. So, the typical naim sound, if i can say, is prat and dynamic put ahead against some other aspects( sometimes and on some tracks).

Actually, I believe there is a Naim sound - while there are subtle differences they are all very much a family, like a load of brothers and sisters that are similar but different. Anyway, all that matters is that one enjoys one's music. Some people like to analyse everything to the n'th degree and to describe the subjective in an objective way, but I can't be bothered. Try it, if you like it buy it, if you don't then buy something else. It's easy. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Actually, I believe there is a Naim sound - while there are subtle differences they are all very much a family, like a load of brothers and sisters that are similar but different. Anyway, all that matters is that one enjoys one's music. Some people like to analyse everything to the n'th degree and to describe the subjective in an objective way, but I can't be bothered. Try it, if you like it buy it, if you don't then buy something else. It's easy. 

Yes, it's easy, no problem at all. Each ears are different. For me i just choose to compensate by an all tube preamp, but very dynamic one, and speakers of my choice. 

But i respect all choices, and each system is very personal.  Some prefer non naim sources with naim amps, other all naim system, or very different like for example all audio note one.

I heard one day focal speakers with lamm electronics and metronome source, and i could have also be very happy with it. It was fantastic for me, but lamm electronics were too expensive...