2 cents on the Uniti Core

Thanks for all that info Keller,I do have a Hugo I want to try between the Core and 272,but if directly into the 272 sounds best,I will leave the Hugo for headphones only.I am moving to a new place in three weeks,so I will wait and see the layout of everything before I decide.I am leaning towards a server though,because I also have Dynaudio Xd 600's that take a digital input directly(they are active).

No quarter posted:

Thanks for all that info Keller,I do have a Hugo I want to try between the Core and 272,but if directly into the 272 sounds best,I will leave the Hugo for headphones only.I am moving to a new place in three weeks,so I will wait and see the layout of everything before I decide.I am leaning towards a server though,because I also have Dynaudio Xd 600's that take a digital input directly(they are active).

i would say core/hugo in spdif is better, but you willl see... and have a good moving first....you will be more relaxed after to hear, compare and enjoy...

MangoMonkey posted:

nbpf posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

DUPREE posted:

That is not the case. I have myself heard and my reseller has done a great number of comparisions. I have also talked with people testing with NDX or NDS as well, and it is a significant improvement when fed into the digital input on these devices as well.  It is just a better renderer connected digital than the internal renderers over UPnP in all 3 cases. Take a listen..

Pretty sad when the NDX is about $7,000 USD.

Yes, it is sad. I have been arguing from the very beginning that -- letting apart the ripping fetures which, as it turned out, come with their own design issues -- the most interesting usage for the Core is as electrical SPDIF source for devices with an electical SPDIF input like the Naim DAC and the NDS. This is because there are many obvious alternatives to using the Core as a UPnP server but, apart from DIY solutions, not so many alternatives to using the Core as an electrical SPDIF source with BNC connector. To excel as a SPDIF source, however, the Core would have to support internet radio and streaming services and, ideally, have a wireless interface. This is not only perfectly doable but also very easy to implement. The fact that Naim is purposely not supporting these features is not only sad but, in my view, mean.

Wouldn't that be the UnitiQute paired with a NAS Into the ndac/555 ?

No. The Qute lacks internal storage and would require an external UPnP server and a wired LAN connection. It also would come with a DAC and with a preamplifier which would be completely redundant when the device is used as a SPDIF source. On the top of this, I am not sure that the Qute supports Qobuz, Tidal, Roon etc.

A device like the Core with wireless card and support for internet radio, Qobuz, Tidal, etc. is all one needs to feed a SPDIF DAC.

Of course, Naim want to sell their streamers and thus are crippling down the cores and disable internet radio and streaming services on their players.

No quarter posted:

I currently do not have a NAS,I just use my laptop to stream,but if I have to get linear power supplies,isolaters,fancy Ethernet cables,switches etc. to equal the sound you get by just plugging a Core in,I will pass,and go for the Core.

That's exactly the point. Many Naim users seem to be very fond of adding NAS devices, switches, cables, LPSUs, etc. when all is actually needed are a player and a DAC. Plugging a Core into the 272 would likely be fine sound quality wise. But you would make the renderer of the 272 redundant and, because of the Core's software design, you would cut your access to internet radio and internet streaming services.

nbpf posted:

MangoMonkey posted:

nbpf posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

DUPREE posted:

That is not the case. I have myself heard and my reseller has done a great number of comparisions. I have also talked with people testing with NDX or NDS as well, and it is a significant improvement when fed into the digital input on these devices as well.  It is just a better renderer connected digital than the internal renderers over UPnP in all 3 cases. Take a listen..

Pretty sad when the NDX is about $7,000 USD.

Yes, it is sad. I have been arguing from the very beginning that -- letting apart the ripping fetures which, as it turned out, come with their own design issues -- the most interesting usage for the Core is as electrical SPDIF source for devices with an electical SPDIF input like the Naim DAC and the NDS. This is because there are many obvious alternatives to using the Core as a UPnP server but, apart from DIY solutions, not so many alternatives to using the Core as an electrical SPDIF source with BNC connector. To excel as a SPDIF source, however, the Core would have to support internet radio and streaming services and, ideally, have a wireless interface. This is not only perfectly doable but also very easy to implement. The fact that Naim is purposely not supporting these features is not only sad but, in my view, mean.

Wouldn't that be the UnitiQute paired with a NAS Into the ndac/555 ?

No. The Qute lacks internal storage and would require an external UPnP server and a wired LAN connection. It also would come with a DAC and with a preamplifier which would be completely redundant when the device is used as a SPDIF source. On the top of this, I am not sure that the Qute supports Qobuz, Tidal, Roon etc.

A device like the Core with wireless card and support for internet radio, Qobuz, Tidal, etc. is all one needs to feed a SPDIF DAC.

Of course, Naim want to sell their streamers and thus are crippling down the cores and disable internet radio and streaming services on their players.

 

 

On the contrary - at these price points - you can ignore the fact that the UnitiQute has all that redundancy. You can simply point it to a NAS running a Media Server, and do spdif out into a Dac. The fact that it has the capabiltiy to do a lot more is not that interesting.

nbpf posted:

No. The Qute lacks internal storage and would require an external UPnP server and a wired LAN connection. It also would come with a DAC and with a preamplifier which would be completely redundant when the device is used as a SPDIF source. On the top of this, I am not sure that the Qute supports Qobuz, Tidal, Roon etc.

A device like the Core with wireless card and support for internet radio, Qobuz, Tidal, etc. is all one needs to feed a SPDIF DAC.

Of course, Naim want to sell their streamers and thus are crippling down the cores and disable internet radio and streaming services on their players.

 

 

I would disagree with this. The Uniti line is aimed at a different market segment and pegged with a Nova would solve the problem of a the need of a streamer. Just MHO.

My point was - if you want to spend $2K on a pure streamer (ethernet in, spdif out) such a device already exists in the unitiqute. With all other features disabled, the electronics can do just the one job - and very well. 

I bet if naim removed all the other features, but otherwise left the performance at par with it as today, people would lap it up. :-)

MangoMonkey posted:

nbpf posted:

MangoMonkey posted:

nbpf posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

DUPREE posted:

That is not the case. I have myself heard and my reseller has done a great number of comparisions. I have also talked with people testing with NDX or NDS as well, and it is a significant improvement when fed into the digital input on these devices as well.  It is just a better renderer connected digital than the internal renderers over UPnP in all 3 cases. Take a listen..

Pretty sad when the NDX is about $7,000 USD.

Yes, it is sad. I have been arguing from the very beginning that -- letting apart the ripping fetures which, as it turned out, come with their own design issues -- the most interesting usage for the Core is as electrical SPDIF source for devices with an electical SPDIF input like the Naim DAC and the NDS. This is because there are many obvious alternatives to using the Core as a UPnP server but, apart from DIY solutions, not so many alternatives to using the Core as an electrical SPDIF source with BNC connector. To excel as a SPDIF source, however, the Core would have to support internet radio and streaming services and, ideally, have a wireless interface. This is not only perfectly doable but also very easy to implement. The fact that Naim is purposely not supporting these features is not only sad but, in my view, mean.

Wouldn't that be the UnitiQute paired with a NAS Into the ndac/555 ?

No. The Qute lacks internal storage and would require an external UPnP server and a wired LAN connection. It also would come with a DAC and with a preamplifier which would be completely redundant when the device is used as a SPDIF source. On the top of this, I am not sure that the Qute supports Qobuz, Tidal, Roon etc.

A device like the Core with wireless card and support for internet radio, Qobuz, Tidal, etc. is all one needs to feed a SPDIF DAC.

Of course, Naim want to sell their streamers and thus are crippling down the cores and disable internet radio and streaming services on their players.

 

 

On the contrary - at these price points - you can ignore the fact that the UnitiQute has all that redundancy. You can simply point it to a NAS running a Media Server, and do spdif out into a Dac. The fact that it has the capabiltiy to do a lot more is not that interesting.

Again, this would require a wired solution which in my situation would be unacceptable. It also would only provide limited access to internet streaming services, I understand. The fact that the Qute can do more is perhaps not interesting to you but, for me, it is a dealbreaker. I do not like the idea of running a DAC and a preamp when all what I need is a UPnP renderer. If I wanted to feed my Naim DAC via a LAN streaming solution (which I do not) I would buy a microRendu with a good USB->SPDIF bridge rather than a Qute.

MangoMonkey posted:

My point was - if you want to spend $2K on a pure streamer (ethernet in, spdif out) such a device already exists in the unitiqute. With all other features disabled, the electronics can do just the one job - and very well. 

I bet if naim removed all the other features, but otherwise left the performance at par with it as today, people would lap it up. :-)

I used to run a Unitiqute2 as a source only,with everything else turned off...digital out to a Hugo,into my (then) SN2.The 272 alone is far better sounding,more like real music than good hifi. The point is,the quality of the digital source DOES matter,an NDX would of been better,I think in my setup,but I opted to trade in the UQ2/SN2 on the 272/250dr.

Richard Choong posted:

nbpf posted:

No. The Qute lacks internal storage and would require an external UPnP server and a wired LAN connection. It also would come with a DAC and with a preamplifier which would be completely redundant when the device is used as a SPDIF source. On the top of this, I am not sure that the Qute supports Qobuz, Tidal, Roon etc.

A device like the Core with wireless card and support for internet radio, Qobuz, Tidal, etc. is all one needs to feed a SPDIF DAC.

Of course, Naim want to sell their streamers and thus are crippling down the cores and disable internet radio and streaming services on their players.

 

 

I would disagree with this. The Uniti line is aimed at a different market segment and pegged with a Nova would solve the problem of a the need of a streamer. Just MHO.

I do not know precisely which market segment the Uniti line attempts at targeting and I do not know the Nova specifications. The point that I was trying to make is that a Core with support for wireless and internet streaming services is all one needs to feed a SPDIF DAC. To me, these are mandatory functionality that any device that is claimed to be (also) a player with internal storage and SPDIF output should provide.

MangoMonkey posted:

My point was - if you want to spend $2K on a pure streamer (ethernet in, spdif out) such a device already exists in the unitiqute. With all other features disabled, the electronics can do just the one job - and very well. 

...

I thought I had made very clear that I was not interested in a ethernet in, spdif out solution.

nbpf posted:

No quarter posted:

I currently do not have a NAS,I just use my laptop to stream,but if I have to get linear power supplies,isolaters,fancy Ethernet cables,switches etc. to equal the sound you get by just plugging a Core in,I will pass,and go for the Core.

That's exactly the point. Many Naim users seem to be very fond of adding NAS devices, switches, cables, LPSUs, etc. when all is actually needed are a player and a DAC. Plugging a Core into the 272 would likely be fine sound quality wise. But you would make the renderer of the 272 redundant and, because of the Core's software design, you would cut your access to internet radio and internet streaming services.

Couldn't you still leave the Ethernet connected to the 272 in order to get internet radio,but get streaming from the Core on a digital input on the 272?Actually both would need an Ethernet connection to work,but I would be eliminating a need for a NAS.

No quarter posted:

nbpf posted:

No quarter posted:

I currently do not have a NAS,I just use my laptop to stream,but if I have to get linear power supplies,isolaters,fancy Ethernet cables,switches etc. to equal the sound you get by just plugging a Core in,I will pass,and go for the Core.

That's exactly the point. Many Naim users seem to be very fond of adding NAS devices, switches, cables, LPSUs, etc. when all is actually needed are a player and a DAC. Plugging a Core into the 272 would likely be fine sound quality wise. But you would make the renderer of the 272 redundant and, because of the Core's software design, you would cut your access to internet radio and internet streaming services.

Couldn't you still leave the Ethernet connected to the 272 in order to get internet radio,but get streaming from the Core on a digital input on the 272?Actually both would need an Ethernet connection to work,but I would be eliminating a need for a NAS.

Yes you can. You will need 2 ethernet connections but it is possible. That way you can also use UPnP since it would detect the Core as a source and you can compare the sound using UPnP vs the digital input from the Core to the 272.

Richard Choong posted:

No quarter posted:

nbpf posted:

No quarter posted:

I currently do not have a NAS,I just use my laptop to stream,but if I have to get linear power supplies,isolaters,fancy Ethernet cables,switches etc. to equal the sound you get by just plugging a Core in,I will pass,and go for the Core.

That's exactly the point. Many Naim users seem to be very fond of adding NAS devices, switches, cables, LPSUs, etc. when all is actually needed are a player and a DAC. Plugging a Core into the 272 would likely be fine sound quality wise. But you would make the renderer of the 272 redundant and, because of the Core's software design, you would cut your access to internet radio and internet streaming services.

Couldn't you still leave the Ethernet connected to the 272 in order to get internet radio,but get streaming from the Core on a digital input on the 272?Actually both would need an Ethernet connection to work,but I would be eliminating a need for a NAS.

Yes you can. You will need 2 ethernet connections but it is possible. That way you can also use UPnP since it would detect the Core as a source and you can compare the sound using UPnP vs the digital input from the Core to the 272.

Interesting! Are in this setup the Core's UPnP server + 272 client and the Core's player controlled via the same Naim app?

i just see the new innuos zenith special edition, on mono and stereo.com: a serious contender to the core, with rippping cd, improved ps, vibration, ssd inside...

in linn forums, some prefer it to the melco.

For myself, i put my unitserve on stratosphere, with uptone js2 ps.

272 + Uniti core via BNC

Same situation (have posted on the topic separately few months ago)...

272 + Uniti core via BNC - this MUST have a one-stop-volume-control within the app.

If it's possible to control the volume of a Naim CD player from within the same screen there MUST be a solution to control volume for the BNC Out (coax in of the 272) in an elegant way - without jumping between screens of the app.

Lorenz posted:

272 + Uniti core via BNC

Same situation (have posted on the topic separately few months ago)...

272 + Uniti core via BNC - this MUST have a one-stop-volume-control within the app.

If it's possible to control the volume of a Naim CD player from within the same screen there MUST be a solution to control volume for the BNC Out (coax in of the 272) in an elegant way - without jumping between screens of the app.

 

 

Agree with the one stop volume control. My other disappointment is that you can only control the Core via the app and can't access your files via 272 if the app is not working and or wi fi down

Does it not work like a nas? I can control my music via the 272 remote, without resorting to the app. It's a pain, but entirely possible. 

If I use upnp then i can use the 272 remote control, however, if i use the spdif connection then no...unless I am missing something ...

David O posted:

Lorenz posted:

272 + Uniti core via BNC

Same situation (have posted on the topic separately few months ago)...

272 + Uniti core via BNC - this MUST have a one-stop-volume-control within the app.

If it's possible to control the volume of a Naim CD player from within the same screen there MUST be a solution to control volume for the BNC Out (coax in of the 272) in an elegant way - without jumping between screens of the app.

 

 

Agree with the one stop volume control. My other disappointment is that you can only control the Core via the app and can't access your files via 272 if the app is not working and or wi fi down

I am not sure I understand your disappointment or critique . How do you imagine a device could access non-local data if its network connection is down? The 272 is a UPnP renderer and has a SPDIF input, as far as I understand.

When you use it as a UPnP renderer, a UPnP server must be up and running and you have to tell the 272, which files it should ask the server to deliver. Whether you do this through a control point running on a mobile device or via a remote control (or via hypothetical buttons on the 272), is immaterial: the 272 has in any case to send a request to the server and it has to receive the data from the server through the (wireless or wired) network.

When you use the 272 as a pure DAC (connected to the Core via SPDIF), you again have to tell the Core player which data it should to send to the 272. In this case, the 272 is a passive consumer. Still, you have two processes -- the player on the Core and your control point running on a mobile device -- that have to communicate through the network.

The advantage of a direct SPDIF connection between the Core and the 272 is that no data (apart from control commands) have to be sent throug the (wired or wireless) LAN. Thus a wireless connection would be more than enough. Unfortunately, the Core does not come with a wireless card. Thus, you will have to provide it with a wired connection although, in this use-case, a wireless connection would be good enough.

David O posted:

If I use upnp then i can use the 272 remote control, however, if i use the spdif connection then no...unless I am missing something ...

You can use the 272 remote for what? I have never used a 272 but it seems to me that you are missing something essential. If you connect the 272 to a SPDIF source, the 272 will act as a pure DAC. I guess that you can use the 272 remote control to select another input but, as long as you stay with that input, the 272 will work just as a Naim DAC. You select the music that you want to replay by controlling your source, not the DAC.

This is purely a software issue. They could make the iOS and Android app integrate and allow both to be controlled or at least the volume of the 272 to be controlled while in the Uniti device.. It is cumbersome right now and clunky. Still love both the Uniti and 272 but this could certainly be improved

I just realized,  the Core is actually playing the music inside the NAS. I found it out by whenever I unplugging the Ethernet cable between NAS/ router or Core/router, the music stopped. Also when I switched off the NAS, no music can be played either.

Did anyone try above ??

Just another question regarding back-up: with the HDX and UnitiServe, it was possible to schedule an automatic back-up to a NAS. Is this also possible with the Uniti Core?

Many thanks in advance!

Klout10 posted:

Just another question regarding back-up: with the HDX and UnitiServe, it was possible to schedule an automatic back-up to a NAS. Is this also possible with the Uniti Core?

The online manual thingy shows the option to schedule regular backups, so it should be possible. Given the other teething problems the Core has had, maybe best to check with Naim or another user that this actually works.