NAPSC UPGRADE

To be honest I didn't feel it made much diference on my 202 when I had it. But as it was so cheap I left it on. My 282 won't work without it so I guess it'll have to stay there too. 

I'd leave it for a few days and see what you think after that. Make sure the NAPSC is connected into the same mains block as the 202/200. 

thanks for the advice. the napsc2 is only doing its job, tightening the sound which IMO upsets the brilliant balance of the 202/200. although this pair sound superb l was thinking later to change up to a 282 but  if has more "control/discipline" that 202/200 l don't want to change.

The 282 is a huge step up from the 202. I was very suprised when I first had mine on dem. The decision took all of about 2 minutes and most of that was thinking about the finances. If you can afford it then treat yourself. I don't think you'll find it in any way restrained, if that's what you mean by disciplined. It has a much wider sound stage. It will work well with the 200 too.

I've owned a 102 and a 202, and wasn't happy with either unless they were powered by both napsc and Hicap. As one progresses up the Naim chain, it can initially seem that some of the excitement goes. But what II've found is that you can engage far more with the music, rather than it being presented to you in a heap. As with any upgrade, use it for a month, then take it away and see if you miss it. Don't be hasty. 

Why not l will do that first ,power supplies later!!. does the 282 still need a nspc2 if l added a supercap?

many thanks

2. does any know if a sub can be added  to the 202/200 without a hicap etc?

Yes, you'll still need the NAPSC with a Supercap

thanks guys

FenderStratman52 posted:

Why not l will do that first ,power supplies later!!. does the 282 still need a nspc2 if l added a supercap?

many thanks

2. does any know if a sub can be added  to the 202/200 without a hicap etc?

If you buy a 282 it is supplied with a NAPSC as standard, as it won't work without one, or if you already have a NAPSC, you can order a 282 without it. If you buy a used 282, make sure you know if it's included or not.

If you're thinking of adding a sub, probably best to use one with a high level input that connects to the speaker terminals.

Thanks for your advice

I think the 202 was designed to work without a NSPC and l believe its optimised without. I find the bass definitely more real and vibrant without as l explained, tight bass kills music for me and is just becomes a thumb. The 282 is a different story as it is optimised with NAPC and is my next upgrade l hope.Tightening up the sound seems most reviewers answer to everything. It may apply to vinyl but not to digital that my experience anyway.

FenderStratman52 posted:

Thanks for your advice

I think the 202 was designed to work without a NSPC and l believe its optimised without. 

I don't hold with that.  From my, albeit short, period with a 202 I thought the NAPSC really improved the resolution and definition in the bass.

Regards,

Lindsay

It's not so much what is optimised to work with or without what, it's more about personal preferences. I don't like the 202 without napsc and Hicap, but others clearly do. And that's about it. 

I've never heard anyone say they didn't like what the NAPSC did to a 202 before, but as long as you're confident that you've given it enough time, your preference is the only one that matters. Also, before you discount the idea completely, it's possible that you have a faulty one. Where is it? Not sitting on top of the preamp, I hope!?

Funny thing is I haven't tried listening to the 202 without the NAPSC when I bought the system 9 years ago. Personally I wouldn't bother whether the NAPSC is connected to the 202 or not. If you feel the 202 to sound better without the NAPSC then let it be. There is no right or wrong in this game as it is mostly down to personal preferences. It's the same as someone preferring the 282 over the 252, or the good old NACA5 over various costlier cables. Having said that, I haven't read about someone saying a 2*2 is better than the 552 though.

I think that some members who don't agree with me are actually agreeing without realising!

Someone said "its got more resolution and definition" with NAPC

l agree with this, its exactly what l'm saying that's what the NAPC does but if Paul McCartney wanted more Res & Def he would have adjusted his tone controls appropriately. My definitive opinion is  Bass especially is more real without the NAPC and nothing to do with taste. My speakers have 12" bass drivers and 12" ABR which probably means l can hear how it is more than most as most bass amps have 15" drivers. When l owned a Naim DAC a few years back l added a 555PS which hardened up the sound like the NAPC. I was told the XP2 used on CDS3 would have been a better match. l don't think "upgrades" are a definitive improvement, my ears decide, always. 

I have just been informed by WITCH HAT that l will need a hi cap to connect my Subwoofer but if this alters the tone balance l might have new problems

FenderStratman52 posted:

My speakers have 12" bass drivers and 12" ABR which probably means l can hear how it is more than most as most bass amps have 15" drivers.

Now I'm really confused!?!

FenderStratman52 posted:

I have just been informed by WITCH HAT that l will need a hi cap to connect my Subwoofer but if this alters the tone balance l might have new problems

Does your sub have a high level input?

As it's your 'definitive opinion' (whatever that might mean) that bass is better without the napsc, why not just leave it at that? You don't need to try to convince others. 

What exactly are you trying to achieve? Do you actually want any advice? 

One does wonder if the OP really likes Naim amps.....?  I conclude not - quote - '..l have had Naim  gear on and off since the early 90's.'

Ok, so I have ... had Naim gear since 1982 - continuously - and still have. Mind you, I have never owned any speakers with 12 inch drivers and an ABR. I might suggest that such speakers would be a slight challenge to a NAP200 - and that a 250 or greater would be more appropriate. But what do I know....

Dear dear the groupies are not in agreement.

1. Advice no not from someone who gets upset because I'm not in agreement with them. l am not trying to convince anyone of anything , its all an opinion, this is a forum not a football  ground.  I want to hear bass the way it was recorded and to my ears, without the NAPC it sounds more real-got it. that's all.

2. And the loyal groupie who  eats only  strawberry jam and therefore knows nothing about "other" gear As far as you experienced knowledge goes you talk out of your exhaust.  Tannoys  work from a trannie radio and have 15" drivers, so no more helpful  suggestions please.

ChrisSU posted:

FenderStratman52 posted:

My speakers have 12" bass drivers and 12" ABR which probably means l can hear how it is more than most as most bass amps have 15" drivers.

Now I'm really confused!?!

FenderStratman52 posted:

I have just been informed by WITCH HAT that l will need a hi cap to connect my Subwoofer but if this alters the tone balance l might have new problems

Does your sub have a high level input?

I have both l think its a REL T1 which has phono and neutrek . I've spoken to Naim and REL and they had different views. It seems that REL have had lot of similar inquires and state the speaker output terminal cannot be used as they hum loadly and the only solution seems to be a Hi cap 4 pin out to REL phono .l have seem the cable on Ebay for £26.

Thanks

FenderStratman52 posted:

I have both l think its a REL T1 which has phono and neutrek . I've spoken to Naim and REL and they had different views. It seems that REL have had lot of similar inquires and state the speaker output terminal cannot be used as they hum loadly and the only solution seems to be a Hi cap 4 pin out to REL phono .l have seem the cable on Ebay for £26.

Thanks

Naim recommend a 'slugged' cable for connecting a sub, which means it has a small resistor in it, which is apparently required to maintain stability. I would check with Naim support before using a cheap RCA lead from ebay. 

Yup, you need to be careful if running a pre-out sub lead from a pre-amp PSU as it was never designed to drive a long/capacitive cable.  Best check with Naim on length and recommended load.  Note that it will affect overall system performance slightly, which is why taking a high level signal off the back of the speaker's terminals is the preferred connection.  Just definitely avoid connection straight into the terminals on the back of the power amp - a big "no-no" on Naim amps.

Ahah,

Speaker terminals not the power amps terminals? l didn't know there could be a diiference cos when l did the other it hummed really loud. The advisor at Naim said it was fine just keep the volume down then connect any old cable onto any earth on the pre, strange??. It didn't work anyway as l couldn't be sure where to stick it!!!

l will do as you advise as long as you come back to me that l am ok with that

Cheers Richard

ChrisSU posted:

FenderStratman52 posted:

My speakers have 12" bass drivers and 12" ABR which probably means l can hear how it is more than most as most bass amps have 15" drivers.

Now I'm really confused!?!

I assume he was referring to live equipment when a combo amp and speaker cabinet is sometimes just referred to as an amp, and indeed bass cabinets tipically have 15 inch drivers, sometimes larger, as do PA rigs. For music normally played live through such systems the greater inertia and so slower starting and stopping of the cone is inherent in the live music, so may not sound wrong at home. To me the bigger PMC speakers, with 12" bass driver and larger, and very likely the big ATCs, make a lot of sense at least for rock music - and I've listened to the MB2 which has a does have an uncanny ability to sound like a live performance, and not just on rock music, handling classical very well, too, from the visceral feel of the bass to presentation of fine detail. Tiny cones have a real challenge to shift the amount of air needed to reproduce deep bass at realistic levels - a pair of 6.5" drivers have to move 3 or 4 times as far in and out as a single 12" for the same sound level. Of course it doesn't matter to anyone preferring their music without the full bass, but that appears not to include the OP. 

It is interesting that the power supply should limit the bass in the way described: on a power amp my expectation would be for a better PS to enable faster and/or greater delivery of current, which would help the cones follow the recorded sound's shape more accurately as long as they remain within their movement limits - but maybe with a preamp the effect on control is more to do with assisting the amp to do whatever it does to create the 'Naim sound', and that may simply be a sound the OP is less keen on.

You're fine taking a high level signal off the speaker terminals (not the amp terminals). It means that the amp only sees the speaker cable and doesn't get unduly upset (as you know the speaker cable gives the Naim amp the required inductance for stable operation, which is why type and length is so critical). However, you may need to rig up a new set of leads as the standard high level REL lead isn't really suitable without modification.