NAPSC UPGRADE

What I can never quite understand is that the high level input on REL subs is a Neutrik, not 4mm banana sockets like others, and is clearly intended to take their 3-core cable, so I'm not clear as to if you can connect this to the speaker terminals. Do you just connect to both + and only one - terminal as per their suggested connection at the amp end, which seems a bit odd to me?

If you ask REL this question, they insist it's all a load of codswallop, and say you should just connect at the amp end, even with Naim power amps.

hi chris

it was naim who told me wrong things .

Richard has explained to connect to speaker cables NOT terminals. only problem 2 wires on one speaker 1 wire on other 3 meters apart. doh. may have to settle for one channel bass(mono)

FenderStratman52 posted:

Richard has explained to connect to speaker cables NOT terminals. only problem 2 wires on one speaker 1 wire on other 3 meters apart. doh. may have to settle for one channel bass(mono)

I think what Richard means is connect to the terminals on the loudspeaker as opposed to the amp. It means you have to find a way of connecting 2 sets of cables to the same terminal, and the best way to do this will depend on the terminals used on that particular speaker. What that doesn't explain is how to do this with a 3 core cable. I seem to recall that REL used to produce a special version of their Neutrik cable to order for people with Naim amps?

Fortunately for me, I don't have a REL sub - life is so much simpler with an N-Sub!!

ChrisSU posted:

What I can never quite understand is that the high level input on REL subs is a Neutrik, not 4mm banana sockets like others, and is clearly intended to take their 3-core cable, so I'm not clear as to if you can connect this to the speaker terminals. Do you just connect to both + and only one - terminal as per their suggested connection at the amp end, which seems a bit odd to me?

If you ask REL this question, they insist it's all a load of codswallop, and say you should just connect at the amp end, even with Naim power amps.

And who would you trust here to give the right advice..?

As I wrote earlier, the OP will probably need to make up a new cable.  Strangely enough in Richard Lord's day he used to provide Naim owners with instructions on how to do this so that connection could be made at the speaker end.

Richard Dane posted:

ChrisSU posted:

What I can never quite understand is that the high level input on REL subs is a Neutrik, not 4mm banana sockets like others, and is clearly intended to take their 3-core cable, so I'm not clear as to if you can connect this to the speaker terminals. Do you just connect to both + and only one - terminal as per their suggested connection at the amp end, which seems a bit odd to me?

If you ask REL this question, they insist it's all a load of codswallop, and say you should just connect at the amp end, even with Naim power amps.

And who would you trust here to give the right advice..?

I'm still not sure what their advice is! How do Naim suggest that you connect to a REL sub given that it has a 3-pin Neutrik socket? 

All you do is connect it to one negative (black wire) and both positives (red and yellow wires) at the back of the speakers. That's it. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

All you do is connect it to one negative (black wire) and both positives (red and yellow wires) at the back of the speakers. That's it. 

Thanks Nigel, I wasn't sure if it was considered OK to connect only a single negative in this configuration. Purely academic for me, as I have an N-Sub and I'm no longer in the market for a REL, but the question still keeps popping up here every so often.

You can very carefully score, and peel back the REL high level cable casing, in order to expose sufficient lengths of the red/black/yellow inner wires, to allow for greater speaker separation. Just be sure that when you score the outer casing, you don't go all the way through (possibly damaging the inner wires). Once properly scored, you can then peel back the outer casing. If you're not comfortable doing this, any competent electrician or electronics service technician can do it for you.

The REL black negative wire only needs to go to one of your negative speaker terminals. Specifically as follows...

Right speaker: REL red to red/positive speaker terminal. REL black to black/negative speaker terminal.

Left speaker: REL yellow to red/positive speaker terminal.

I've had my Rel G2 hooked up to the amp for nearly 4 years and have experienced 0 problems.

Connecting at the speaker terminals just looks too messy to bother. Hard to imagine what difference it could make to the amp.

REL Subwoofer to 202/200  , Problem solved and no need for any power supplies.

Special thanks to Richard Dane for his correct advice. Both REL and Naim techs advised wrongly.

Firstly l cannot believe that it would make a difference if l connected to power amp outputs or speaker terminals but it does.

So ive connected it all to one speaker both lives to+ and black to-. its a sort of Mono bass if you like, but l will divide the+ and run a length to the other speakers +. Most modern recordings share the bass but in the good old days it was a novelty to have drums on one side and bass on the other.

BTW the sub work perfectly from the neutrek output.

Thanks to fellow member hungryhalibut who also right.

Kevin Richardson posted:

I've had my Rel G2 hooked up to the amp for nearly 4 years and have experienced 0 problems.

Connecting at the speaker terminals just looks too messy to bother. Hard to imagine what difference it could make to the amp.

How do you mean ,when l connected power amp l had a continual loud hum, now it works perfectly.

Are you suggesting yo try it that way as Richard Dane warns against this

regards

George

FenderStratman52 posted:

REL Subwoofer to 202/200  , Problem solved and no need for any power supplies.

So ive connected it all to one speaker both lives to+ and black to-. its a sort of Mono bass if you like, but l will divide the+ and run a length to the other speakers +. Most modern recordings share the bass but in the good old days it was a novelty to have drums on one side and bass on the other.

 

Not sure if I understood correctly, but I got the impression your sub has a single channel input. ignore my comment below  if it has two separate input channels for L&R and what you've done is combined them to one main speaker terminal   

Connecting the '+' to both left and right main speaker terminals will short the outputs of the two channels together, which will result in mono from the main speakers as well (though if bi or triamping and connected to bass connections that would affect just the frequencies below the crossover).  Aside from that, I'm not sure whether the amp will be happy with it so best check with Naim first if you do plan to try.

FenderStratman52 posted:

REL Subwoofer to 202/200  , Problem solved and no need for any power supplies.

Special thanks to Richard Dane for his correct advice. Both REL and Naim techs advised wrongly.

Firstly l cannot believe that it would make a difference if l connected to power amp outputs or speaker terminals but it does.

So ive connected it all to one speaker both lives to+ and black to-. its a sort of Mono bass if you like, but l will divide the+ and run a length to the other speakers +. Most modern recordings share the bass but in the good old days it was a novelty to have drums on one side and bass on the other.

BTW the sub work perfectly from the neutrek output.

Thanks to fellow member hungryhalibut who also right.

Good to know you have managed to successfully connect the REL sub to the NAC 202 / NAP 200. By the way, just to inform that I run my PMC sub from the Hicap DR and it worked out great.

Innocent Bystander posted:

FenderStratman52 posted:

REL Subwoofer to 202/200  , Problem solved and no need for any power supplies.

So ive connected it all to one speaker both lives to+ and black to-. its a sort of Mono bass if you like, but l will divide the+ and run a length to the other speakers +. Most modern recordings share the bass but in the good old days it was a novelty to have drums on one side and bass on the other.

 

Not sure if I understood correctly, but I got the impression your sub has a single channel input. ignore my comment below  if it has two separate input channels for L&R and what you've done is combined them to one main speaker terminal   

Connecting the '+' to both left and right main speaker terminals will short the outputs of the two channels together, which will result in mono from the main speakers as well (though if bi or triamping and connected to bass connections that would affect just the frequencies below the crossover).  Aside from that, I'm not sure whether the amp will be happy with it so best check with Naim first if you do plan to try.

 it is only one input but you must feed the bass from both channels to match the  speakers.

l hope that makes sense. This also help early recording that have bass on one channel only.

l hope this helps and thanks for your concern

 

Tamarin posted:

You can very carefully score, and peel back the REL high level cable casing, in order to expose sufficient lengths of the red/black/yellow inner wires, to allow for greater speaker separation. Just be sure that when you score the outer casing, you don't go all the way through (possibly damaging the inner wires). Once properly scored, you can then peel back the outer casing. If you're not comfortable doing this, any competent electrician or electronics service technician can do it for you.

The REL black negative wire only needs to go to one of your negative speaker terminals. Specifically as follows...

Right speaker: REL red to red/positive speaker terminal. REL black to black/negative speaker terminal.

Left speaker: REL yellow to red/positive speaker terminal.

 

Thanks spot on

l glad someone told me that connection to the power amp is different from connecting to the speaker terminals, l wouldn't of worked that one out in a million years--Electricity moves in mysterious ways!!!!

Talking of napsc...

Sorry to interrupt the subwoofing.

As it has no power switch is it supposed to be left on all the time? 

Yes. Leave it on.

FenderStratman52 posted:

I think that some members who don't agree with me are actually agreeing without realising!

Someone said "its got more resolution and definition" with NAPC

l agree with this, its exactly what l'm saying that's what the NAPC does but if Paul McCartney wanted more Res & Def he would have adjusted his tone controls appropriately. My definitive opinion is  Bass especially is more real without the NAPC and nothing to do with taste. My speakers have 12" bass drivers and 12" ABR which probably means l can hear how it is more than most as most bass amps have 15" drivers. When l owned a Naim DAC a few years back l added a 555PS which hardened up the sound like the NAPC. I was told the XP2 used on CDS3 would have been a better match. l don't think "upgrades" are a definitive improvement, my ears decide, always. 

I have just been informed by WITCH HAT that l will need a hi cap to connect my Subwoofer but if this alters the tone balance l might have new problems

I am resurrecting this thread and repeating this same remark I have posted earlier in May - If you feel the 202 to sound better without the NAPSC then let it be. There is no right or wrong in this game as it is mostly down to personal preferences. 

I recently tried listening to the 202/200 without the NAPSC and power supply. It's the first time in 9+ years I am doing this as I always had the 202/200 connected with both NAPSC and power supply. I am not using a Naim Hicap with the 202 so I couldn't mention the name of that power supply.

Long story short, the 202/200 does sound different without both NAPSC and power supply. In my case, it's a bit different as I have both NAPSC and PSU connected to the 202/200 whereas you only have the NAPSC connected. Running the 202/200 bare, the bass is less controlled and free as a bird. In translation, it may be what you have described with the bass sounding more real.

I will reconnect the NAPSC to the 202/200 some day, followed by the power supply. The 202/200 is my secondary setup so expectations are not high with the system. That partly explains why the system still sounds great without the NAPSC and power supply. I would be more inclined to think that the 202/200 sounds different from the 202/200/NAPSC/Hicap rather than one sounding better than the other although the general consensus is the latter is sonically superior.

Bottomline - if you think the 202/200 sounds better without the NAPSC opinions from others do not matter.

Enjoy~

By the way, I nearly gave up on running the 202/200 bare when I played the first track on the system. There was a slight buzzing sound from the speakers when the system was fired up from cold. I thought there might be a glitch with the amps as they have always been run with both NAPSC and power supply throughout the years, 9 years to be exact. Perhaps they just need the NAPSC (or power supply) to stop making the buzzing sound I thought. Fortunately, the buzzing from speakers disappeared after 4 to 5 minutes with the music still playing.

With respect to sound quality, it's not really that bad without the NAPSC and power supply. But as I have said earlier, expectations are low with the system. One thing is for sure though, music sounded a bit different when the NAPSC (and power supply) are not connected to the system.