Atom - DELAYED AGAIN?!?!

Phil Harris posted:

nbpf posted:

Eloise posted:

Iconoclast posted:

Will there be any other software besides the proprietary Naim app that can be used to control the Atom?

Depends in what way you want to control it ... any UPnP control point will work.

Interesting ... the Naim app cannot be used to control non-Naim renderers but any UPnP control point shall be able to control a Naim renderer?

Hi,

No - not really - a UPnP control point will be able to control a limited range of UPnP functionality on them but will not be able to control any of the other functionality of the Atom / Star / Nova...

Best

Phil

Question of licensing and rights to use ??

ndx202- posted:

Phil Harris posted:

Hi,

No - not really - a UPnP control point will be able to control a limited range of UPnP functionality on them but will not be able to control any of the other functionality of the Atom / Star / Nova...

Best

Phil

Question of licensing and rights to use ??

Hi,

No - just that UPnP control points don't have any concept of all the additional non-UPnP functionality that the units have and only implement the UPnP control set - the units have a completely different control protocol that is used by the Naim app to enable complete control of all the functionality of the streamers.

Cheers

Phil

Phil Harris posted:

nbpf posted:

Eloise posted:

Iconoclast posted:

Will there be any other software besides the proprietary Naim app that can be used to control the Atom?

Depends in what way you want to control it ... any UPnP control point will work.

Interesting ... the Naim app cannot be used to control non-Naim renderers but any UPnP control point shall be able to control a Naim renderer?

Hi,

No - not really - a UPnP control point will be able to control a limited range of UPnP functionality on them but will not be able to control any of the other functionality of the Atom / Star / Nova...

Best

Phil

Sure, a non-Naim control point cannot be aware of Naim-specific functionalities in much the same way as it cannot be aware of Linn-specific or Auralic-specific functionalities. Still, I find it remarkable that Naim renderers can talk to any UPnP control points but Naim's UPnP control point can only talk to Naim renderers! Perhaps it is a good idea to constrain the usability of the Naim app to Naim renderers although this very much limits its popularity, of course. Best, nbpf   

nbpf posted:

Sure, a non-Naim control point cannot be aware of Naim-specific functionalities in much the same way as it cannot be aware of Linn-specific or Auralic-specific functionalities. Still, I find it remarkable that Naim renderers can talk to any UPnP control points but Naim's UPnP control point can only talk to Naim renderers! Perhaps it is a good idea to constrain the usability of the Naim app to Naim renderers although this very much limits its popularity, of course. Best, nbpf   

Hi,

You're making the assumption though that the Naim app is a UPnP control point (which it isn't) ...

The Naim App communicates with the Naim streamers via an extensive (and proprietary) control protocol that is not a superset of the very basic UPnP protocols. 

Best

Phil

Phil Harris posted:

nbpf posted:

Sure, a non-Naim control point cannot be aware of Naim-specific functionalities in much the same way as it cannot be aware of Linn-specific or Auralic-specific functionalities. Still, I find it remarkable that Naim renderers can talk to any UPnP control points but Naim's UPnP control point can only talk to Naim renderers! Perhaps it is a good idea to constrain the usability of the Naim app to Naim renderers although this very much limits its popularity, of course. Best, nbpf   

Hi,

You're making the assumption though that the Naim app is a UPnP control point (which it isn't) ...

The Naim App communicates with the Naim streamers via an extensive (and proprietary) control protocol that is not a superset of the very basic UPnP protocols. 

Best

Phil

To the extent to which Naim streamers can be controlled by UPnP control points, they are UPnP streamers. From this perspective, the Naim app is indeed a control point for UPnP streamers, albeit only for certain ones.

I understand that the Naim app communicates with the Naim streamers via a protocol that is not a superset of the UPnP protocols. Still this protocol (or a subset thereof) does not prevent Naim streamers from successfully communicating with UPnP control points.

That the other way round does not work is therefore a design choice, not a necessity. I am not arguing that it is a bad choice, just that it is a remarkable one.

Best,

nbpf 

nbpf posted:

To the extent to which Naim streamers can be controlled by UPnP control points, they are UPnP streamers. From this perspective, the Naim app is indeed a control point for UPnP streamers, albeit only for certain ones.

Hi,

Slightly flawed logic though there nbpf - that's like saying "I put a collar and lead on my dog to walk it and it seems to enjoy it - my dog has four legs and so has my cat - so why does my cat scratch my arms when I try to put a collar and lead on it?"

nbpf posted:

I understand that the Naim app communicates with the Naim streamers via a protocol that is not a superset of the UPnP protocols. Still this protocol (or a subset thereof) does not prevent Naim streamers from successfully communicating with UPnP control points.

Absolutely correct - and other UPnP control points can control a limited subset of the streamer functionality as far as UPnP control extends.

nbpf posted:

That the other way round does not work is therefore a design choice, not a necessity. I am not arguing that it is a bad choice, just that it is a remarkable one.

Best,

nbpf 

Not really remarkable when we would then have had to write our app to "talk" both our own control protocols and UPnP and to somehow try to figure out the capabilities of third party devices that it was being asked to control. The app is to control our products and allows control of all the functionality of those products - not just browsing of UPnP servers.

Cheers

Phil

Must say what I find remarkable is the fact that the Naim app controlling other UPnP devices is even worth discussing. 

Why would they bother?

why do we care?

Why an I even writing this?

I feel a Becket moment coming on!

.sjb

Sloop John B posted:

Must say what I find remarkable is the fact that the Naim app controlling other UPnP devices is even worth discussing. 

Why would they bother?

why do we care?

Why an I even writing this?

I feel a Becket moment coming on!

 

I'm struggling to understand why this makes you a martyr?!

ChrisSU posted:

Sloop John B posted:

Must say what I find remarkable is the fact that the Naim app controlling other UPnP devices is even worth discussing. 

Why would they bother?

why do we care?

Why an I even writing this?

I feel a Becket moment coming on!

 

I'm struggling to understand why this makes you a martyr?!

I'm struggling to understand why I don't have an Atom sitting in my living room, let alone what app works with it.

ssmith posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Sloop John B posted:

Must say what I find remarkable is the fact that the Naim app controlling other UPnP devices is even worth discussing. 

Why would they bother?

why do we care?

Why an I even writing this?

I feel a Becket moment coming on!

 

I'm struggling to understand why this makes you a martyr?!

I'm struggling to understand why I don't have an Atom sitting in my living room, let alone what app works with it.

ssmith posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Sloop John B posted:

Must say what I find remarkable is the fact that the Naim app controlling other UPnP devices is even worth discussing. 

Why would they bother?

why do we care?

Why an I even writing this?

I feel a Becket moment coming on!

 

I'm struggling to understand why this makes you a martyr?!

I'm struggling to understand why I don't have an Atom sitting in my living room, let alone what app works with it.

Mid June innit??! 

Totally passed giving a toss now, the shine has somewhat dulled....see what the next crazy instalment brings! Lol

Gents (and Ladies), chill, the weather is lovely outside. Stop stressing about flippin' Unitis, UPnP control points, late deliveries, UPnP protocols, Naim specific funtionalities (the list goes on) and get outside and smell the roses. This could be the only summer we get!

nigelb posted:

Gents, chill, the weather is lovely outside. Stop stressing about flippin' Unitis, UPnP control points, late deliveries, UPnP protocols, Naim specific funtionalities (the list goes on) and get outside and smell the roses. This could be the only summer we get!

I just managed to squeeze an 8 K jog between intermittent showers. Took my mind off the forum for a while and helped put things in perspective. So far the weather this summer has been terrible which makes me think about hi-fi more than I normally would during the summer. That being said I'll only know if I'm interested in the Atom when I actually have a chance to ''test drive'' one. Besides speculating how it will sound I'm totally unfamiliar with the Naim app. The latter could easily be a deal breaker for me which in a way is a good thing as it keeps me from suffering from the high anxiety that some members appear to be experiencing. In other words I won't get exited until I'm sure I want one.  

Update on the progress thread:

"22nd June

We are so nearly there with certifications and are just awaiting final approval from Google, Spotify and AirPlay.  We are in close contact with all these organisations to ensure we are doing everything possible to conform to their regulations.

We will be in contact again once we have passed the certifications process, at which point we can start programming ready to ship your Uniti Atoms."

Good news and thanks again for the update!

Eoink posted:

Update on the progress thread:

 

"22nd June

We are so nearly there with certifications and are just awaiting final approval from Google, Spotify and AirPlay.  We are in close contact with all these organisations to ensure we are doing everything possible to conform to their regulations.

We will be in contact again once we have passed the certifications process, at which point we can start programming ready to ship your Uniti Atoms."

Does that include shipping the hdmi versions of atom, or are they further delayed

Cbr600 posted:

Eoink posted:

Update on the progress thread:

 

"22nd June

We are so nearly there with certifications and are just awaiting final approval from Google, Spotify and AirPlay.  We are in close contact with all these organisations to ensure we are doing everything possible to conform to their regulations.

We will be in contact again once we have passed the certifications process, at which point we can start programming ready to ship your Uniti Atoms."

Does that include shipping the hdmi versions of atom, or are they further delayed

 

"No answer came the stern reply"

But Cbr600 I am intrigued to know what is important to you about the ARC input. Since you cannot use the Atom as an HDMI hub, there is no actual "returning" of audio to be done. Seems to me that you sacrifice an HDMI input (with ARC)  to your TV to get two channel audio to the Atom. I plan simply to use the digital audio output from my TV to the Atom for sound. Or is it that there are control features related to the ARC input?

I have asked before but have not yet had an explanation of the advantages. Happy to be proved wrong though.

Roger

I too would be interested to understand why you would choose (and pay extra for) HDMI over a Toslink connection, assuming your TV has one?

Me too, it seems just as easy to install an optical lead.

if the  TV has optical it can of course be used. if however you wish to watch TV with only one remote the HMDI ARC feature on the Atom should allow for volume control from the TV remote to be passed down to the Atom,Star,Nova in order to make things simpler in life for that use case. ive used it for TV only, apple TV into TV and then into an Atom (volume from the Apple TV remote) and other scenarios.

Trevor

Thanks Trevor

That is the kind of thing I meant when asking about control features.

Cheers

Roger

Trevor Wilson posted:

if the  TV has optical it can of course be used. if however you wish to watch TV with only one remote the HMDI ARC feature on the Atom should allow for volume control from the TV remote to be passed down to the Atom,Star,Nova in order to make things simpler in life for that use case. ive used it for TV only, apple TV into TV and then into an Atom (volume from the Apple TV remote) and other scenarios.

Trevor

Will it also send a turn on signal to the Atom, Star, Nova when the TV is switched on?

Eoink posted:

Update on the progress thread:

 

"22nd June

We are so nearly there with certifications and are just awaiting final approval from Google, Spotify and AirPlay.  We are in close contact with all these organisations to ensure we are doing everything possible to conform to their regulations.

We will be in contact again once we have passed the certifications process, at which point we can start programming ready to ship your Uniti Atoms."

And there's me thinking this would have been done pre launch last October!!

Kermit posted:

Eoink posted:

Update on the progress thread:

 

"22nd June

We are so nearly there with certifications and are just awaiting final approval from Google, Spotify and AirPlay.  We are in close contact with all these organisations to ensure we are doing everything possible to conform to their regulations.

We will be in contact again once we have passed the certifications process, at which point we can start programming ready to ship your Uniti Atoms."

And there's me thinking this would have been done pre launch last October!!

At this juncture I will be happy if it is before this October.

For some reason I though there was one outstanding certification, but this seems to have grown to three. An issue with one problematic company I can understand, but when it's three, you start questioning where the problem really is. 

There might be some interaction between these three from an implementation point of view ...