Atom - DELAYED AGAIN?!?!

Perhaps Naim will be nice enough to include a 1 year subscription to Tidal HiFi, to all customers who pre-ordered a new Uniti , as a thank you for being so patient. Hint, hint!

Sloop John B posted:

Naim's one mistake was to allow orders to be taken before a definitive release date was assured.  Take this out of the equation and we would have a lot of "are we there yet?" posts but without the feeling  of being cheated somewhat. 

On the Roon forum a new OS called ROCK was announced but then Roon decided to change direction slightly and there was a 6 month delay. Roon simply said it will be ready when it's ready, sorry if we gave you the impression of an earlier release. End of. 

Undoubtedly Naim ( and its customers -fans to some extent really) will have learned from the whole fiasco.  I'm still not sure if the importance of communication has been taken fully on board however.

 The main communication thread still has a date in early March, I pointed out (over a month ago) that even though this thread was being updated it didn't look as if it was because the last postage date wasn't changing. 

 A biweekly update is an excellent idea  even if there is nothing to update other than say still waiting thanks for your patience. 

.sjb

No, Naim's mistake was launching (and giving a release date) a product that was nowhere near complete.

I have removed a number of posts that I felt stepped well outside of forum AUP. Respectful opinion and robust reasoned argument are fine but "trolling" and personal insults are not. I would suggest to the members involved to leave it and move on.  Thank you.

DomTomLondon posted:

Perhaps Naim will be nice enough to include a 1 year subscription to Tidal HiFi, to all customers who pre-ordered a new Uniti , as a thank you for being so patient. Hint, hint!

or the hdmi option would be nice to

DomTomLondon posted:

Perhaps Naim will be nice enough to include a 1 year subscription to Tidal HiFi, to all customers who pre-ordered a new Uniti , as a thank you for being so patient. Hint, hint!

Yeah, they've got sucker money in their pocket and now they're going to start giving it away? 

Seeking gains on the pound since you laid down money might yield you a better venture.

Kermit posted:

Sloop John B posted:

Naim's one mistake was to allow orders to be taken before a definitive release date was assured.  Take this out of the equation and we would have a lot of "are we there yet?" posts but without the feeling  of being cheated somewhat. 

On the Roon forum a new OS called ROCK was announced but then Roon decided to change direction slightly and there was a 6 month delay. Roon simply said it will be ready when it's ready, sorry if we gave you the impression of an earlier release. End of. 

Undoubtedly Naim ( and its customers -fans to some extent really) will have learned from the whole fiasco.  I'm still not sure if the importance of communication has been taken fully on board however.

 The main communication thread still has a date in early March, I pointed out (over a month ago) that even though this thread was being updated it didn't look as if it was because the last postage date wasn't changing. 

 A biweekly update is an excellent idea  even if there is nothing to update other than say still waiting thanks for your patience. 

.sjb

No, Naim's mistake was launching (and giving a release date) a product that was nowhere near complete.

 

Customer's mistake is paying for something that doesn't yet exist because he just can't wait for it to hit the shelves.

I suspect most of these high anxiety customers have not bothered to compare the Atom with the dozens of similar products readily available either.

I'm interested in the Atom as well but I won't be sleeping out in front of the store like Apple fan boys waiting for the next iPhone.

In due time...

Iconoclast posted:

Kermit posted:

Sloop John B posted:

Naim's one mistake was to allow orders to be taken before a definitive release date was assured.  Take this out of the equation and we would have a lot of "are we there yet?" posts but without the feeling  of being cheated somewhat. 

On the Roon forum a new OS called ROCK was announced but then Roon decided to change direction slightly and there was a 6 month delay. Roon simply said it will be ready when it's ready, sorry if we gave you the impression of an earlier release. End of. 

Undoubtedly Naim ( and its customers -fans to some extent really) will have learned from the whole fiasco.  I'm still not sure if the importance of communication has been taken fully on board however.

 The main communication thread still has a date in early March, I pointed out (over a month ago) that even though this thread was being updated it didn't look as if it was because the last postage date wasn't changing. 

 A biweekly update is an excellent idea  even if there is nothing to update other than say still waiting thanks for your patience. 

.sjb

No, Naim's mistake was launching (and giving a release date) a product that was nowhere near complete.

 

Customer's mistake is paying for something that doesn't yet exist because he just can't wait for it to hit the shelves.

I suspect most of these high anxiety customers have not bothered to compare the Atom with the dozens of similar products readily available either.

I'm interested in the Atom as well but I won't be sleeping out in front of the store like Apple fan boys waiting for the next iPhone.

In due time...

To be fair, I paid with the information that the unit was about to ship and the price was due to go up so deposit or full payment would be required. Part of this was trust in the Naim brand and therefore trust in the sound quality etc. I don't think that anyone including Naim anticipated a 7 month delay. Whilst the criticism has been harsh I don't think it unreasonable to expect some kind of regular update.

ssmith posted:

Iconoclast posted:

Kermit posted:

Sloop John B posted:

Naim's one mistake was to allow orders to be taken before a definitive release date was assured.  Take this out of the equation and we would have a lot of "are we there yet?" posts but without the feeling  of being cheated somewhat. 

On the Roon forum a new OS called ROCK was announced but then Roon decided to change direction slightly and there was a 6 month delay. Roon simply said it will be ready when it's ready, sorry if we gave you the impression of an earlier release. End of. 

Undoubtedly Naim ( and its customers -fans to some extent really) will have learned from the whole fiasco.  I'm still not sure if the importance of communication has been taken fully on board however.

 The main communication thread still has a date in early March, I pointed out (over a month ago) that even though this thread was being updated it didn't look as if it was because the last postage date wasn't changing. 

 A biweekly update is an excellent idea  even if there is nothing to update other than say still waiting thanks for your patience. 

.sjb

No, Naim's mistake was launching (and giving a release date) a product that was nowhere near complete.

 

Customer's mistake is paying for something that doesn't yet exist because he just can't wait for it to hit the shelves.

I suspect most of these high anxiety customers have not bothered to compare the Atom with the dozens of similar products readily available either.

I'm interested in the Atom as well but I won't be sleeping out in front of the store like Apple fan boys waiting for the next iPhone.

In due time...

To be fair, I paid with the information that the unit was about to ship and the price was due to go up so deposit or full payment would be required. Part of this was trust in the Naim brand and therefore trust in the sound quality etc. I don't think that anyone including Naim anticipated a 7 month delay. Whilst the criticism has been harsh I don't think it unreasonable to expect some kind of regular update.

I can understand your enthusiasm and am optimistic about the Atom but I would want to demo the hardware and software thoroughly before committing.

While I own and like the Naim brand I try to approach each new product objectively as I would with any other brand. In my opinion failure to do so is just opening the door to greed and laziness.

For me this is simply too much hard earned cash to allow blind faith to rule.

Richard Dane posted:

I have removed a number of posts that I felt stepped well outside of forum AUP. Respectful opinion and robust reasoned argument are fine but "trolling" and personal insults are not. I would suggest to the members involved to leave it and move on.  Thank you.

My post was nothing of a trolling or insult...

I made an expample of a product launch by apple...

Suggest a solution of a small gesture by Naim to long time waiting full paid customers to win their hearts 

And colleting full amount and delivering  6-8 months later than contract time is a sort of crowd funding bussiness model 

This is coming from a very loyal customer of long time... so sort of brand ambassador, a friend... and i got deleted

Sorry Emre, I may have deleted your post in error if it was in the midst of all the others.  I basically just deleted everything after a certain point... Please accept my apologies if so.

Emre posted:

And colleting full amount and delivering  6-8 months later than contract time is a sort of crowd funding bussiness model.

 

I suspect your dealer has your money not Naim ... but that's just a guess.

Eloise posted:

Emre posted:

And colleting full amount and delivering  6-8 months later than contract time is a sort of crowd funding bussiness model.

 

I suspect your dealer has your money not Naim ... but that's just a guess.

Except in the rare instances where they must pay upfront (usually because they're a new business, or have poor credit history), then normal practice within the hifi industry in the UK is that a dealer is usually only invoiced when products have been sent out to them.

The both had it but not with Atom, hopping to get one soon

Communication eh. Who'd have thought it. 

Iconoclast posted:

ssmith posted:

Iconoclast posted:

Kermit posted:

Sloop John B posted:

Naim's one mistake was to allow orders to be taken before a definitive release date was assured.  Take this out of the equation and we would have a lot of "are we there yet?" posts but without the feeling  of being cheated somewhat. 

On the Roon forum a new OS called ROCK was announced but then Roon decided to change direction slightly and there was a 6 month delay. Roon simply said it will be ready when it's ready, sorry if we gave you the impression of an earlier release. End of. 

Undoubtedly Naim ( and its customers -fans to some extent really) will have learned from the whole fiasco.  I'm still not sure if the importance of communication has been taken fully on board however.

 The main communication thread still has a date in early March, I pointed out (over a month ago) that even though this thread was being updated it didn't look as if it was because the last postage date wasn't changing. 

 A biweekly update is an excellent idea  even if there is nothing to update other than say still waiting thanks for your patience. 

.sjb

No, Naim's mistake was launching (and giving a release date) a product that was nowhere near complete.

 

Customer's mistake is paying for something that doesn't yet exist because he just can't wait for it to hit the shelves.

I suspect most of these high anxiety customers have not bothered to compare the Atom with the dozens of similar products readily available either.

I'm interested in the Atom as well but I won't be sleeping out in front of the store like Apple fan boys waiting for the next iPhone.

In due time...

To be fair, I paid with the information that the unit was about to ship and the price was due to go up so deposit or full payment would be required. Part of this was trust in the Naim brand and therefore trust in the sound quality etc. I don't think that anyone including Naim anticipated a 7 month delay. Whilst the criticism has been harsh I don't think it unreasonable to expect some kind of regular update.

I can understand your enthusiasm and am optimistic about the Atom but I would want to demo the hardware and software thoroughly before committing.

While I own and like the Naim brand I try to approach each new product objectively as I would with any other brand. In my opinion failure to do so is just opening the door to greed and laziness.

For me this is simply too much hard earned cash to allow blind faith to rule.

No really sure why this troubles you. Not sure accusations if greed and laziness are appropriate to other forum members. Not really trying to sway your opinion as don't feel I have to justify buying a Naim product on a Nail forum. Was merely explaining that the £150 price hike was a strong reason to pay ahead. Also I have a Muso and QB and wanted multiroom compatibility.

if I was buying, I'd wait a year until all the bugs are sorted out.

I wasn't aware of the impending £150 price hike. I suppose that could be an incentive to be an early adopter. I'm seeing more and more of these buy NOW and save offers from other manufacturers a well. I'm not sure what to think of it. I can understand the Kickstarter model to help finance young entrepreneurs but for the rest it feels like another marketing strategy to ensure a sale before the impatient customer starts looking elsewhere. Or maybe not...

It seems to me there are two issues  being conflated here: the delay in delivering the products, and the practice of taking significant sums of money in advance of product availability.

The delay is extremely annoying and there have been issues around communication but Naim are clearly suffering themselves and doing their very best to resolve it. 

The taking of large deposits, or even the full price well in advance is inexcusable. My word is good enough for my dealer and so it should be. There is little chance of a dealer being lumbered with unwanted stock and a gesture of £50 or so should be more than sufficient if the customer is unknown to the dealer. As for the price hike, the price charged to the dealer and thus the customer should be the price in force at the time of placing an order. 

Iconoclast posted:

I wasn't aware of the impending £150 price hike. I suppose that could be an incentive to be an early adopter. I'm seeing more and more of these buy NOW and save offers from other manufacturers a well. I'm not sure what to think of it. I can understand the Kickstarter model to help finance young entrepreneurs but for the rest it feels like another marketing strategy to ensure a sale before the impatient customer starts looking elsewhere. Or maybe not...

What jumping in with an opinion without knowing the facts, surely not!!

Pev posted:

It seems to me there are two issues  being conflated here: the delay in delivering the products, and the practice of taking significant sums of money in advance of product availability.

The delay is extremely annoying and there have been issues around communication but Naim are clearly suffering themselves and doing their very best to resolve it. 

The taking of large deposits, or even the full price well in advance is inexcusable. My word is good enough for my dealer and so it should be. There is little chance of a dealer being lumbered with unwanted stock and a gesture of £50 or so should be more than sufficient if the customer is unknown to the dealer. As for the price hike, the price charged to the dealer and thus the customer should be the price in force at the time of placing an order. 

I am not entirely sure - but legally in the UK I believe if you have paid for a product and effectively entered into a contract  on the understanding it is the agreed  price - then you can't be charged extra if you were not made aware at the time of purchase for the goods to be provided.... otherwise I think it would be considered a type of extortion.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Pev posted:

It seems to me there are two issues  being conflated here: the delay in delivering the products, and the practice of taking significant sums of money in advance of product availability.

The delay is extremely annoying and there have been issues around communication but Naim are clearly suffering themselves and doing their very best to resolve it. 

The taking of large deposits, or even the full price well in advance is inexcusable. My word is good enough for my dealer and so it should be. There is little chance of a dealer being lumbered with unwanted stock and a gesture of £50 or so should be more than sufficient if the customer is unknown to the dealer. As for the price hike, the price charged to the dealer and thus the customer should be the price in force at the time of placing an order. 

I am not entirely sure - but legally in the UK I believe if you have paid for a product and effectively entered into a contract  on the understanding it is the agreed  price - then you can't be charged extra if you were not made aware at the time of purchase for the goods to be provided.... otherwise I think it would be considered a type of extortion.

 

It's actually breach of contract and your right of action would be the price difference between what was agreed when the contract was made (when you gave them your money in your case) and what they try to charge you upon delivery.

If they try to not sell you the item at the originally agreed price then this is also breach of contract and your right of action is the same, unless of course your contract with them specifically has a clause to cover this situation.

I'm more interested in why administrators on here are deleting posts "willy-nilly"  

I happened to see those posts that were eventually deleted. Unfortunately they descended into personal attacks and verged on verbal abuse so were quite rightly taken down.

Christine, as per my earlier post, a certain group of posts were removed because they breached the forum's AUP. Nobody wants to read personal attacks and  insults thrown between members - they add nothing to debate, and totally detract from the thread. Nothing is ever removed "willy-nilly" (whatever that means) - I assume you mean without consideration, thought or reference to forum rules, but would appreciate you elaborating on this so I know for sure.  

Richard Dane posted:

Christine, as per my earlier post, a certain group of posts were removed because they breached the forum's AUP. Nobody wants to read personal attacks and  insults thrown between members - they add nothing to debate, and totally detract from the thread. Nothing is ever removed "willy-nilly" (whatever that means) - I assume you mean without consideration, thought or reference to forum rules, but would appreciate you elaborating on this so I know for sure.  

Richard,

willy-nilly means "without direction or planning; haphazardly"

In an earlier post you said "Sorry Emre, I may have deleted your post in error if it was in the midst of all the others.  I basically just deleted everything after a certain point... Please accept my apologies if so."

So as I said "I'm more interested in why administrators on here are deleting posts "willy-nilly"  

On another Core subject post an Administrator said "Moderated post:  No censorship here.  Posts are only moderated/edited if they contravene forum rules.  I could have removed this thread as it arguably contravenes forum rules (pointing out a unit for sale) but left it in just in case its removal was misconstrued."

So now I'm now additionally interested in why Administrators are NOT deleting posts that contravene your forum rules.

nigelb posted:

I happened to see those posts that were eventually deleted. Unfortunately they descended into personal attacks and verged on verbal abuse so were quite rightly taken down.

It's a shame that we have members on this forum that would do such a thing but please see my reply post above.