In praise of 272/250DR

..and I think fact.8's should be fairly room agnostic. The dem room I heard them in was about 14' x 18'ish. 

Judge posted:

My foray into streaming is in its infancy, but I am liking the results.  I couldn't justify going straight to an ND5 XS (which would match the rest of my system) so have a Cambridge Audio CXN.  It is really very good and holds its own against my CD5XS+FlatcapXS in direct comparison (playing the CD I'm streaming and switching between inputs).

But I am so impressed I was thinking next step could be SN2+NDX.  Realising that the direct alternative is the 272+250DR, at least in terms of outlay this thread suggests the latter is a better approach.  However how would the 272+200DR fare?  Reason is that I would struggle with changing from my Neat Motive SX2's - anything else would be too big in our living room, and therefore do I need the extra power of the 250.  Or is it's extra grip on the speaker more the point?

I'm fairly new to Naim so many others are more knowledgeable. I began with NAC-N272 and NAP200DR. Loved it, but had remorse over not going with the NAP250DR.  

First, because the 272 cannot be powered by the 200DR as can say, the 202 - so that feature is wasted.  

Second, because I subsequently read that only the 200's power source for a pre such as the 202 is "DR'd".  It is my understanding that the power amp in the 200 itself - creating the signal from amp to speakers - is not "DR'd".  NAP250 has DR plus the NA009 transistors, which the NAP200 does not have.  With DR the 250 has added bigger transformer (power supply).  So, I traded up for the 250DR and my awesome dealer gave me full purchase credit for the like-new 200DR.  

The 250DR has as firm a grip on speakers at harder to drive frequencies as the easy to drive frequencies. That’s what gets better with the 250. Micro-dynamics is better. Rhythm, pace and timing is there. More ability to render spatial detail, control and rhythm. It handles everything from quiet passages to loud music with unassuming authority.  Not blowing the 200DR out of the water, mind you - the 200DR was quite good.  Just a more complete, detailed presentation and quieter noise floor with more watts and a "DR'd" signal from amp to speaker.

Hungryhalibut posted:

With a 272 there is little point in a 200DR. A used 200 will be virtually as good, and perfectly fine with Neat Motive 2. 

Why a DR 200/250 would be overkill for a 272?

I don't think HH meant that using the 200DR was overkill with the 272. The only difference between the 200 and 200DR (apart from a small number of internal component improvements) is a DR regulator module which is used to provide 24v DC power to a suitable Naim pre-amp. As you won't be needing to use this with the 272, the difference in performance between a DR and non DR 200 will be negligible hence the recommendation for a used 200 rather than the newer (and more expensive) 200DR. 

Exactly. 

My gears arrived today  NAC-N272 - NAP250DR and burning the midnightoil.

Been on for 5 hours and RadioParadis 320K sounds already very good, TIDAL HiFi sounds also very good a bit bright on some tracks. Listening too the new Jaco P Live on CD via analogin (CD5XS) and it's so much better then my NaitXS already. Going to be an exciting summer music wise. 

Very easy too setup...so happy.

It's just keeps getting better [@mention:70553749395570665]. I've had my 272 for a month now and it sounds far better than the first week I had it. Enjoy!! 

Thx

Kenth Immerbo posted:

Listening too the new Jaco P Live on CD via analogin (CD5XS) and it's so much better then my NaitXS already.

Just curious - have you tried listening to CD5XS through "digital in" into the 272?  I'm curious how the two DACs compare.

No not yet but thats on the list. Upnp works perfect and  USB sounded best so far Aja Steely dan. Wav 44/16. ripped with powerampdb. 

Kenth Immerbo posted:

My gears arrived today  NAC-N272 - NAP250DR and burning the midnightoil.

Been on for 5 hours and RadioParadis 320K sounds already very good, TIDAL HiFi sounds also very good a bit bright on some tracks. Listening too the new Jaco P Live on CD via analogin (CD5XS) and it's so much better then my NaitXS already. Going to be an exciting summer music wise. 

Very easy too setup...so happy.

Congrats on the new gear,I like radio paradise 320k for the music they play,but it seems a little overcooked or bright on quite a lot of their songs.Naim radio 320k sounds superb to my ears,they play more live music,which the 272 really shines at,especially in the middle of the night here (Canada),which would be early morning in the U.K....wait until you hear it with the XPS DR.

I can say having owned a 272 from shortly after it's launch and immediately after it came stateside - it is near the top of my 0 buyers remorse pile of all equipment I have owned over the years. I think it is the best value/sound quality option NAIM provides. When I first got it I was transitioning systems and had a lowly (and thoroughly underrated) NAP 100, quickly went to a 200 which while better than 100 not mind bending upgrade then to 250DR which was a whole new ball game. Currently have NAP250DR/272/Core and it is more revealing than the numerous Linn Aktive and non-aktive configs and various other mfgs systems I have gone through. No upgraditis, it is a joy to own and would recomend it to anyone who can afford and appreciate it. LP-12 that I bought 20 some odd years ago still favorite permanent fixture in my system, but for enjoyment 272 is second Also streaming and multiroom increased my music listening by at least 3x - I have satellite QB's and that just completes the whole thing.. It's a great system - can't wait to see what they do next with the new architecture. 

HiFiman posted:

Bottom end for me but the 272/100 sounds wonderful in fact the best I have owned, 272 is one hell of a pre.

I started with the 100 on my 272.. In my opinion for the money, 100 is an unsung hero in NAIM's lineup.. I was not overly plussed when I went to a used non-DR 200 - better and still a great amp still the 100 had most of the mojo already. 250DR completed the pic.. no upgraditiis.. the 272/250DR in a midsized room is superb... Unless you have big power needs it is an A+ system.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Indeed FT, though I do find 150s  quite sensitive to rooms .. they appear to easily over power some rooms with a too dominant bass loosing some apparent speed. In a large room with plenty of space they work well.

Agree for a hybrid the N272 is very good.. certainly if you don't want or need the performance of a dedicated Naim preamp it's a very enticing option... I just wish it could let you SPDIF loop out and in to a third party DAC and DSP  if you wanted to.

Exactly, Simon!

Naim, give us that SPDIF loop in the 372!

Stefan

To all who love the 272 250dr combo..... which is great .... try a XPS DR.....or even 555 you will be amazed....tbe 272 is even more awesome.....

Another very happy recent 272 / 250DR owner here with Core as the source of my ripped CD collection. Saving for a XPS DR but is it really worth saving for the 555 or will it be overkill?

XPSDR here next too. 555DR is too pricey for me, Unless a decent pre loved one is worth it? 

That's what I did.

I was expecting the main benefits to be in macro dynamics (PRaT etc.) but actually the real benefits are in increased subtly and control without loosing out anywhere else.  Yes the bass is a little tauter, but now there is quite a bit more detail across the whole spectrum; voices are more readable (i.e. words in lyrics are clearer) and instrumental timbres are better differentiated.

Whether this will be the same in your system and to your ears, and, whether for you this worth the extra of the new price of a 555 are two different questions though.  Don't forget that you also need to get a Burndy for the 555 as (unlike the XPS) it doesn't come with one as standard.  

Huge : May thanks for the info. Looks like the wife will get a Burndy for Christmas

My dealer suggests the XPSdr is the natural partner of the 272, not the 555. I suppose it's a case of personal preference. 

I would suggest the importance of high end cables though, to me if you choose the right ones they can be as good as a black box upgrade. 

Possibly better to choose the XPSdr and upgrade ones cables?

When I got my XPSDR, back in autumn 2015, I could have got a 555 non DR for the same money, but chose the XPS because it seemed to me to be the 'natural partner', as Wenger mentions above. I also wanted to buy new, as both the 272 and 250 were new: it sort of felt right. It certainly transforms the 272 and I've been very happy with the combination. When I once had a CD5x I tried it with a Hicap and it became a crazy thing, whereas with the Flatcap it was lovely. I didn't want to risk the same effect with my 272. That said, I've not listened to my system with a 555 in place, so I'm not saying it wouldn't make a worthwhile difference. But one doesn't need a 555 to get a great sound, and one shouldn't feel that one is slumming it with an XPS. 

The only reason I went for a 555DR was that I found one s/h for only slightly more than an XPSDR.  The XPSDR definitely isn't slumming it, but neither does the 555DR make a 272 turn into a "crazy thing".  

I do think that in each case you should always go for the DR version though.

Finkfan posted:

XPSDR here next too. 555DR is too pricey for me, Unless a decent pre loved one is worth it? 

It is worth it. I found some decent pre-loved ones for sale at half-the price of a new XPSDR.

If you email me directly (email is inmy profile) I happen to have one that is surplus to requirements, as I'm selling my CDX2 to a friend (and he doesn't need a PSU, nor can he fit one).

Hi re price of 555ps ...... I would not buy new ... I bought a s/h item for around 2k. I suspect the XPS DR would be excellent.....I think HH has this setup.

Thanks Adam z!

My only fear, without hearing either an XPSDR or 555 at home is that the 555 may be too much for my small room???