In praise of 272/250DR

I did not change anything else, except swapping the SU for the 272 and 250Dr.

Perhaps the MA Golds are the limiting factor here. Or the snake nest behind the boxes. 

Devoting some time to the snake's nest is certainly worthwhile. At first it can seem impossible to get it tidy with no cables touching each other or the rack, but if you tinker away at it bit by bit, it can be done.

What rack are you using?

What sourcefiles are you using? If sources are Spotify etc ... results might be even worse than before. Well, that's my finding.

ChrisSU posted:

Devoting some time to the snake's nest is certainly worthwhile. At first it can seem impossible to get it tidy with no cables touching each other or the rack, but if you tinker away at it bit by bit, it can be done.

What rack are you using?

ChrisSU, what cables are most important not to touch other cables?

Ardbeg10y posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Devoting some time to the snake's nest is certainly worthwhile. At first it can seem impossible to get it tidy with no cables touching each other or the rack, but if you tinker away at it bit by bit, it can be done.

What rack are you using?

ChrisSU, what cables are most important not to touch other cables?

To be honest, there are others with a great deal more experience of this than me, so probably best to let them chime in with their findings, especially as I don't use a 272. What I can say is that spending a couple of hours charming the snakes behind my own rack improved things quite noticeably.

ChrisSU posted:

Devoting some time to the snake's nest is certainly worthwhile. At first it can seem impossible to get it tidy with no cables touching each other or the rack, but if you tinker away at it bit by bit, it can be done.

What rack are you using?

No rack I'm afraid. Don't have the space so the boxes sit on the same furniture as the TV with maybe 3 cm to the wall behind it. The cables are a mess crawled in that 3 cm of space.

Aaaaargh! Next you'll be telling me that you've got one box sat directly on top of the other! These things really need proper support to work as intended.

I was advised by my dealer to keep powerlines and signal cables as apart as possble and also not have them parallel to each other. I also spent a long saturday arranging my 5 m each side of Naca5 speaker cables in the preferred ribbon layout. This last activity made  a noticeable difference.

ChrisSU posted:

Aaaaargh! Next you'll be telling me that you've got one box sat directly on top of the other! These things really need proper support to work as intended.

No, but I though about doing just that. It would take less space. Dark humor, I suppose..

Dan.S posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Aaaaargh! Next you'll be telling me that you've got one box sat directly on top of the other! These things really need proper support to work as intended.

No, but I though about doing just that. It would take less space. Dark humor, I suppose..

A proper rack and good installation is key to obtaining the best from these boxes you'll be surprised at the difference.

A good rack isn't essential, but (provided the cables are sorted) then with a mid range system or better, an appropriate level rack (i.e. a reasonably good rack [e.g Quadraspire Evo] for mid range systems; and a top end rack [e.g. Full Fat Fraim] for top end systems) is worth as much as a component upgrade.

A good system on a poor support will sound better than a poor system on a poor support

A good system on a poor support will still sound better than a poor system on a good support

A good system on a good support will sound better than a good system on a poor support

The cables behind the rack of my system are also in an (almost) entangled mess. Cables, just like supports are all important as they surely affect the sound of the system. It's just the magnitude of difference that's the question. Some consider the differences as huge, some regard the changes as subtle. Since there is no benchmark for comparison, all remarks are valid in the context of one's interpretation.

I don't use a Fraim for my Naim amps and the rest of the components. I use a Finite Elemente Spider rack and have two types of footers supporting the components on the rack - rubber feet and Ceraball Spider, an aluminium or steel footer with a ceramic ball inside it. These footers affect the sound of the components that they support. The Naim NAC 282 and NAP 250 DR sound better when they are on Ceraball footers. The Ceraball made the sound faster, tighter and more dynamic. As there is less smearing in the notes especially the bass, the sound is cleaner with the Ceraball footers. The sound is thicker and the bass resonates more (sounding a bit untidy) when rubber footers are used on the Naim amps.

With the Chord QBD76 DAC, the sound is better with the rubber footers. It gets a bit too clinical with a lean sound when the Ceraball footers are used on the Chord. The sound lost a bit of body and didn't sound quite right to my ears when the Ceraballs were used on the Chord (unlike the Naim amps).

All subtle differences but appreciable. It's the small differences that count with cables and supports as they can fine-tune the sound to one's preferences.

I went from a metal shelving system - to the Atacama Evoque SE and it made a significant difference - the louder the replay the more significant the effect. I think the amount of volume and the amount of energy in the room has a significant impact .... if you listen at really low levels I suspect the effect would be allot less.....

Nice to hear you're back on your bike HH. I'm also very much enjoying my 272/250.

ryder. posted:

The cables behind the rack of my system are also in an (almost) entangled mess. 

 

I'm sure mileages do vary, but after spending a fair amount of kit (and in your case racks and footers) it seems a missed opportunity not to spend a bit of time sorting out the cable dressing. It can be a nice improvement for not a lot of effort. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

I did a 20 mile cycle ride this morning and a six mile walk this afternoon - not a lot I know, but it was really hot - and am now relaxing with a glass of rosé and a Toumani Diabate album before dinner. 

Great to hear you're back on your bike again!

Clive

james n posted:

ryder. posted:

The cables behind the rack of my system are also in an (almost) entangled mess. 

 

I'm sure mileages do vary, but after spending a fair amount of kit (and in your case racks and footers) it seems a missed opportunity not to spend a bit of time sorting out the cable dressing. It can be a nice improvement for not a lot of effort. 

A bit of free tweaking may give a bigger result than expensive footers, which often change rather than improve the sound. It takes more effort though. 

Cdb posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

I did a 20 mile cycle ride this morning and a six mile walk this afternoon - not a lot I know, but it was really hot - and am now relaxing with a glass of rosé and a Toumani Diabate album before dinner. 

Great to hear you're back on your bike again!

Clive

Thanks! The new Felt is much better than the old Cube, and I'm really happy with it. I managed to run pretty fast for 15 minutes at the gym today before being overcome with the heat - best not to overdo things!

Bettyswallocks

Dan.S posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Aaaaargh! Next you'll be telling me that you've got one box sat directly on top of the other! These things really need proper support to work as intended.

No, but I though about doing just that. It would take less space. Dark humor, I suppose..

A dedicated rack is really the best solution, but if you really can't do it, try to put some distance between the two boxes, either on spaced shelves or side by side. A light but rigid support unencumbered by TVs and other stuff is best.

Hungryhalibut posted:

I did a 20 mile cycle ride this morning and a six mile walk this afternoon - not a lot I know, but it was really hot - and am now relaxing with a glass of rosé and a Toumani Diabate album before dinner. Since getting my 272/250 and SL2s, and finalising the wires early last year, I've just forgotten about the system, stick on a record and enjoy it. It's not been like that for years. One of the reasons I chose the system is because it's hard to upgrade and is just right as it is. Hifi is a means to play records, not something to stress about. 

And music always seems to sound better after a spin on the bike.

james n posted:

ryder. posted:

The cables behind the rack of my system are also in an (almost) entangled mess. 

 

I'm sure mileages do vary, but after spending a fair amount of kit (and in your case racks and footers) it seems a missed opportunity not to spend a bit of time sorting out the cable dressing. It can be a nice improvement for not a lot of effort. 

I tried sorting out the cables behind the rack but to no avail. Most of the power cables, interconnects and speaker cables are touching each other. The rather tight space and stiffness of the speaker cable don't really help much. I will attempt to move the cables a bit sometime just to see if it will make a difference. I didn't bother sorting out the cable dressing since music sounds great at the moment.

Hungryhalibut posted:

A bit of free tweaking may give a bigger result than expensive footers, which often change rather than improve the sound. It takes more effort though. 

I wouldn't deny that cable dressing might give a bigger difference than footers, though in my case it's quite difficult due to the tight space and stiffness of cables, especially the speaker wires. The footers are not really that costly. Yes, they do change the sound. Whether the change is an improvement or not is dependent on the listener's interpretation. From my experience as described above, specific type of footers may not improve the sound when placed under specific components. They can make it sound worse instead.

The point I am trying to convey when describing on the changes in sound with footers is the type of support for all equipment inclusive of Naim gear will have a bearing on sound quality.

Hungryhalibut posted:

I did a 20 mile cycle ride this morning and a six mile walk this afternoon - not a lot I know, but it was really hot - and am now relaxing with a glass of rosé and a Toumani Diabate album before dinner. Since getting my 272/250 and SL2s, and finalising the wires early last year, I've just forgotten about the system, stick on a record and enjoy it. It's not been like that for years. One of the reasons I chose the system is because it's hard to upgrade and is just right as it is. Hifi is a means to play records, not something to stress about. 

Super!  Congratulations!  A lot or not a lot who cares, it's a great achievement considering what happened to you!

cyclo posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

I did a 20 mile cycle ride this morning and a six mile walk this afternoon - not a lot I know, but it was really hot - and am now relaxing with a glass of rosé and a Toumani Diabate album before dinner. Since getting my 272/250 and SL2s, and finalising the wires early last year, I've just forgotten about the system, stick on a record and enjoy it. It's not been like that for years. One of the reasons I chose the system is because it's hard to upgrade and is just right as it is. Hifi is a means to play records, not something to stress about. 

And music always seems to sound better after a spin on the bike.

It's all the dopamine released by exercise.I am a avid cyclist and always feel brilliant after a 2 hour ride and getting home and having a shower and tasty food and a glass of wine.Getting some tunes on is the icing on the cake.

Those considering a mains lead for £2000 should buy a £2000 bike it will do wonders for your health and in comparison to the lead you can appreciate its VFM .Also you will save money on public transport if you use it and can put the money towards more music.