Alert: this is one of those annoying posts by one who asks for advice then perhaps won't follow it.

LP12 to Majik specs. Judging by your post anything else will be a long term regret.

There are great bargains to be had second hand with both Linn and the likes of Roksan and Thorens, even Garrard. But having it serviced and sorted may just cost as much in the long run

Thanks for the quick, short and clear reply: it's the type I like most. I suppose it replies all the implicit questions safe the fourth one: have you an idea of how much it would cost?

New, £2,750 including arm and cartridge. This includes set up in your home (essential to get the best from it) and generally a five year dealer warranty.

From that point, with the amount of available upgrades you could be into it as much as £20k. When you think of it, holds up well value wise when considering the cost of high quality CD players and streaming devices.

Hi,

I've taken a look and the first thing I liked is that it's sold as a 'bundle': with Pro-Ject carbon arm and a cartridge. This would eliminate, at least for some time, a major issue, my deep hatred for options. I also wonder if I'd find a dealer here who actually comes to install it for me at home... I'll look more.

Thanks,

M

Michell Gyrodeck or Orb would seem to fit the requirement for a suspended deck for classical music avoiding a Linn, maybe with a Roksan Nima tonearm if they do an arm board for it (an Aro would be preferable and the board available, unfortuneately the Aro isn't).

It's probably a mistake to discount all non suspended decks if you have a suitable rack system. I've just installed a deck that sits on spikes on top of my Fraim with Fraim chips under the spikes on a Lite shelf, the stack sits less that 2 feet from an NBL and there's no sign of any feedback (maybe that's down to the NBL not feeding much vibration into the floor though).

A Well Tempered simplex could be worth an audition if you decide springs are superfluous, alongside a Rega of course.

Does your dealer friend have anything you can audition?

What does Italy produce?

Pro-Ject  The Classic.. Crazy VFM IMO..

That all sounds like a lot of hassle, just buy some Frank Zappa albums and your life will be complete.

I reached the end of the post: to match the rest of this theoretical guy's system, I would suggest a Linn LP12 in Majik specification.

Should this chap potenitally own a SuperNait2 and a CDX2, such a Majik should complement it well.
And if he had Ovators, ideally S-400s, that would be even better.

Be warned that if this chap gets a Sondek, he will inevitable find himself starting down the slippery slope of Upgradeitis. There is a huge number of opportunities for him to empty his wallet for the Ole Fruit Box itself, not to mention the almost infinite number of combinations of arms & cartridges to try out.............it's far, far worse than "just another HiCap, Dear!"

I think your second question hits the mark. Music replay should be about the pleasure it brings you. In some cases nostalgia forms a significant part of that enjoyment. In reciting your system, I could hear that rembrance of things past, so I'd stick to what you have if you want to keep that sense. (Had a PL112 myself running into a NAD 3020a and AR28ls' - good times...)

regards,

Giles

Yeti,

thanks for the info and the questions, both relevant. First, eliminating rigid decks comes mainly from an instinctive preference for suspended ones, but as a principle I do not exclude a good product because it hasn't springs... My rack is made of three single Guizu shelves, placed on top of each other by means of their own spikes and protectors; I have no pets and no children and I do the audio zone cleaning myself, so a relatively safe solution:

As you see, placing a TT on the top one would benefit from triple decoupling. Hence, also a good rigid design would be probably ok.

*

My dealer friend has a number of decks, ranging from all available rega models to some absurdly designed and priced ones. His cheapest is a €179 Marantz, his dearest a €65,000 Gold Note. I counted 83 units, available or that can be ordered.

Gold Note is Tuscany-based, Italian maker of a complete range of audio products, apparently making everything from cartridges to high level loudspeaker systems. I have no special penchant for any of their products, but my dealer is an enthusiast of the brand. He probably also had good margins on them. I have just browsed the TT page of his website, and the one that struck me as intriguing and affordable is, I confess, a Well Tempered Simplex, the one with the golf ball pivot. I think I could have a good price on it, and also a home demo.

Thanks for all suggestions. So far, I should find a 2nd hand Sondek Majik to match the price I'd probably could grasp for the WellTempered. Quest pending.

Thanks

M

Magnus,

it looks exactly like a reasonably cheaper cross between a TD160 an a Sondek.... They undoubtedly have thought it well. It costs € 950: admittedly, a very attractive price.

Chris,

Adam,

I think this guy has a Supernait1 not a 2 (and he's not even using a HiCap), but he seems happy. You second the Sondek Majik, so 2 votes for it.

Suzy Wong,

I am well aware of this. I am.

Giles,

thanks for the considered and insightful reply. You are a lot right in sensing my pleasure in keeping that sound as a link to a happy time. One of my options (although I hate them) was in fact to have my Pioneer SA 7300 'serviced' and go on with what I have. I told that I could not follow there suggestions, but I am considering them all very seriously.

Thanks

M

Max_B posted:

 

Suzy Wong,

I am well aware of this. I am.

 

Well, in that case........here is another vote for a LP12, although I must confess to bias - I bought mine in 1982 and it is still in use (I will admit to a couple of upgrades along the way).

I did hear a Mitchell Orbe at the Bristol show in January; I though that sounded excellent - and overall,  probably less "I really must have that" upgrades to deplete the wallet down the line.

Either way, enjoy!

All I'd say to this guy is that if he doesn't have a local competent Linn dealer, who can set up the LP12 properly, than I'd forget it and get something plug and play. My choice would be a Rega RP8. I'd also suggest that he tries the Pioneer into the main system. Then he'll know if he enjoys listening to his vinyl more in a different room. If he does, then a better deck makes sense. It's also a good idea for him to ask himself if it would really make his life better, rather than simply being a displacement activity. 

Another vote for LP12 in Majik spec.

... but you might be disappointed with the different sound vs your current vintage set-up so I'd definetly demo beforehand.

I thought I was going down the vinyl route but have got so disappointed with the quality of current pressings and the introduction of clicks/noise on new purchases (even with great care being taken) that I've kinda put that on hold and playingmost of my music from my UServ now.

Given your large collection and varied quality I'd also be looking at some easy-to-use and reliable cleaning machine - I've always hankered for an ultrasonic one but can't justify the cost vs number of lps.

Happy listening,

Allan

This may sound plain daft, but if starting afresh you could do alot worse than booking a cheap flight over to the great UK and visiting Peter Swain's premises.  He has a vast range of LP12's and he did have some others (not sure what the current range held is).  Bring a few of your albums in representative condition and hear what is possible within budgetary constraints you should set beforehand.  He's a splendido turntable fettishist (spell check) who will put you in the perfect seat to make a decision.  Of course if your local dealer inspires confidence, go for that solution, I only suggest Peter as he is a 100% top bloke who knows LP12s inside out.

I suspect it would also be a very good idea to have your lp's cleaned if you are getting a new tt.  With a good selection of lp's on your shelves and more than a little sentimental links to some of them, I'd definitely suggest you get a record player to add to your main system.  Good luck with your decision making. 

Peter

Hungryhalibut posted:

All I'd say to this guy is that if he doesn't have a local competent Linn dealer, who can set up the LP12 properly, than I'd forget it and get something plug and play. My choice would be a Rega RP8. I'd also suggest that he tries the Pioneer into the main system. Then he'll know if he enjoys listening to his vinyl more in a different room. If he does, then a better deck makes sense. It's also a good idea for him to ask himself if it would really make his life better, rather than simply being a displacement activity. 

Ah,  HH, life is a good teacher. You seem to understand people better since your Great Change. I have a feeling, to quote a better songwriter than myself, that you have looked at that guy from both sides, now.

Thanks,

M 

Allan Milne posted:

 

Given your large collection and varied quality I'd also be looking at some easy-to-use and reliable cleaning machine

Happy listening,

Allan

 

Another good advice. Thanks,

M.

northpole posted:

This may sound plain daft, but if starting afresh you could do alot worse than booking a cheap flight over to the great UK and visiting Peter Swain's premises.  He has a vast range of LP12's and he did have some others (not sure what the current range held is).  Bring a few of your albums in representative condition and hear what is possible within budgetary constraints you should set beforehand.  He's a splendido turntable fettishist (spell check) who will put you in the perfect seat to make a decision.  Of course if your local dealer inspires confidence, go for that solution, I only suggest Peter as he is a 100% top bloke who knows LP12s inside out.

I suspect it would also be a very good idea to have your lp's cleaned if you are getting a new tt.  With a good selection of lp's on your shelves and more than a little sentimental links to some of them, I'd definitely suggest you get a record player to add to your main system.  Good luck with your decision making. 

Peter

More good suggestions, especially about cleaning. Thanks,

M.

Michell Gyro ticks all the boxes. I have one myself. I bought it second hand from Signals and it's pushing 20 yrs old but looks as good as new and will last forever. I bought a new Sme in for it though as it didn't come with an arm. The Gyro is great because there's not many silly expensive upgrades you can do to it compared to an lp12.

Linn (with the LP12) and Naim both play the upgrade game like they invented it. We've seen you wrestle with Naim do you want to start with Linn too.

There was a time the LP12 wasn't rated for classical music in some quaters, maybe that is confined to the pre Cirkus days, or the pre Radikal or whatever.

There's a lot of worms in that can.

yeti42 posted:

A Well Tempered simplex could be worth an audition if you decide springs are superfluous

Yeti,

I see your point very well. As I wrote already, the  WT Symplex has a certain appeal. I have been advised pro and vs Linn. I'll do some reasoning...

Thanks,

Max

Suzy Wong posted:

Be warned that if this chap gets a Sondek, he will inevitable find himself starting down the slippery slope of Upgradeitis. There is a huge number of opportunities for him to empty his wallet for the Ole Fruit Box itself, not to mention the almost infinite number of combinations of arms & cartridges to try out.............it's far, far worse than "just another HiCap, Dear!"

I don't get this 'don't buy an LP12, there are too many upgrade options' view. All systems have upgrade options, and some make the same complaint about Naim boxes. You can't blame these inanimate objects (or even their makers) for your own inability to control your spending habits. If you don't believe me, ask your wife  

Max,

There are so many variables with a turntable (cartridges, arms, phono amps), and the way I know you, always plunging into the very deep end, I am wondering if it wouldn't be just easier for you to have kids and pets..

My 1978 LP 12 (never upgraded) with a Denon MC and a matching transformer clearly outshines my 3.5/Flatcap on any day.

Are you going to play your existing vinyl collection or are you planning on purchasing new LPs? If you are strictly staying with the old stuff I would recommend a second hand LP 12, a Thorens or a Lenco. 

If hooking the TT to the main gear involves moving 500 LPs to another room I would advise to do regularly your push-ups..

Haim

I would definitely agree with the idea of a cleaning machine. It has often been said that this would be the best vinyl upgrade you could make.

Furthermore, I would agree that it would be a good idea at least to give Peter Swain a call. Many of his customers have upgrades fitted to their LP12s. Consequently, he gets many items traded in, which he sells on at very competitive prices. This way you could buy a secondhand LP12 at far higher spec than if you were to buy new and you'd have the confidence that it had been built and set up by a recognised LP12 guru.