Alert: this is one of those annoying posts by one who asks for advice then perhaps won't follow it.

Posted by: Massimo Bertola on 21 May 2017

Suppose a guy has circa 500 LPs, ranging from battered mono ones from his childhood in the early 60s, to very new ones, left from a departed friend. That they also range from A to Z classical (I said classical, no Frank Zappa), including such things as the complete collection of RCA Victor Fritz Reiner discography (more than 60 LPs, in widely diverging conditions, bought starting in 1975), all of Charles Ives' works in various editions or multiple recordings of George Gershwin's major or minor works; or the complete, original LPs of the Firehouse Five + 2, or a decent résumé of history of music from Purcell's Consort music to Boulez conducting Varese, or the complete 10CC, Godley and CremeAlan Parson's Project or The Lovin' Spoonful. In a word, a richly diversified collection.

Suppose this guy has an old Pioneer PL112 with an AT, medium-priced pickup, an epoch, unserviced Pioneer SA 7300 and AR14s, which gives exactly the same sound – with the same flaws – he used to have in the mid 70s. This system is in the studio/guest room. It sounds exactly how you imagine it sounds. Now suppose this guy:

- Wonders if it would be possible to have all those different LPs replayed to a higher level of quality (and pleasure);

- Wonders if it would be worthwhile to have all those different LPs replayed to a higher level of quality (and pleasure);

- Wonders if it would be worthwhile to have an LP replay system (=a turntable, with arm, phono stage and pickup) to place together with his main CD system, in the living room. No more 40 years old ARs, but modern S-400s.

- Wonders how much it would cost to have the LP system being of comparable quality to his CD one (details in the guy's profile).

- Is not the least attracted by rigid base TTs like the rega and loves floating suspension ones, like Thorens or Linn; but he has no intention to spend the sum a properly working Linn costs (unless something made him fall for a Linn, which he finds beautiful); 

Supposing you have had the patience to reach this point, and have noticed all the underlined words: what would you suggest to this fastidious guy?

Thanks,

have a good Sunday.

M

Posted on: 22 May 2017 by b_lund
 People moan about the LP12 being expensive ...... If I couldn't have a Linn I'd have a Bauer dps (very pretty), topline Rega or even a WT Versalex or an old EMT.

if LP12, I wouldn't  bother with the Majik/Project tonearm

even with Adikt

so many rb 300 variants or the Nima. to choose.

agree on the dps looks. never heard it.

 

 

Posted on: 22 May 2017 by Kevin-W
b_lund posted:
 People moan about the LP12 being expensive ...... If I couldn't have a Linn I'd have a Bauer dps (very pretty), topline Rega or even a WT Versalex or an old EMT.

agree on the dps looks. never heard it.

Best-looking TT out there, I reckon. Beautifully built and very good sound, too. Well worth an audition if you're in the market.

Posted on: 22 May 2017 by Kevin-W
Allante93 posted:

Interesting, I never heard of the Guy, or Vertere, for that matter. However, I'm familiar with Rosksan, I think!

One would think that, $50K GBP TT, would be just what the Doctor ordered to accompany The STATEMENT!

RG1~17·5K

ARM~ 27K

Cartridge~3K

Perhaps it was the Speakers LOL!

Allante93!

Allente, the speakers sounded flabby and boomy. The TT sounded 'draggy' and slow. Despite the staggering levels of detail retrieved and the very deep bass, it was and interesting if not entirely satisfactory session. Not very engaging at all. If I's have paid £250,00 for that set-up I'd have been rather disappointed. I don't think the Statement was at fault, but the front and back ends.

The source material - the Sean Magee Beatles mono LPs from a couple of years ago - sound great even on my relatively humble setup at home, so there's no excuse for a £250K set up at Abbey Road not to sound good.

Posted on: 22 May 2017 by Tabby cat

Wow I ve never seen a deck with the pulley wheel at the front before.

Never heard one Kev but could imagine the acrylic plinth does something to its sound.Nuetrality ?

Not heard the Vertere decks but I am sure they don't sound bad.Maybe there was a system mismatch that Statement night ?

Agree about the LP12  there's something about a flutted afromosia plinth and an Ittok.For me there's way better decks out there but it still does the job on vinyl at home.

Got a Technics SL 1210 and that's bloody good in terms of no fettling like the Linn needs

Posted on: 22 May 2017 by Kevin-W

It's quite a neutral-sounding TT Ian, but still quite lively. One of the best TTs I have heard outside of an LP12.

I agree about the fluted afro plinths on LP12s. They're the best (I have an '87 fluted afro with a mid 89-Ittok).

I  know those fancy Harban plinths are supposed to sound better, but they just make the decks look "tubby" as far as I'm concerned, whereas the fluted afromosias look slimmer and more elegant.

Posted on: 22 May 2017 by Christopher_M
Kevin-W posted:

I  know those fancy Harban plinths are supposed to sound better, but they just make the decks look "tubby" as far as I'm concerned, whereas the fluted afromosias look slimmer and more elegant.

'Slabby' would have been my word, but agreed.

I think the WT Simplex looks really interesting from what I have read today on the web. Would love to hear one. Hopefully Max can.

Posted on: 22 May 2017 by Mulberry

Hi Tabby,

the cartridge creates a certain amount of drag while riding the groove. With the motor at the left front its own drag has nearly the opposite direction. According the Willi Bauer this is preferable (I think better speed stability). Only the top layer is acrylic, followed by birch plywood and aluminum among other things. And yes, neutral as in getting out of the way, is a good description.

The fluted LP 12 is good looking in its own way. Perhaps Max is able to find a Prefix as phono stage for a sound and uncluttered solution.

Posted on: 22 May 2017 by Suzy Wong

Although the fluted Afromosa is, I suppose, the seminal Sondek plinth I've never been fond of it. Indeed I've been "waiting" for my '83 Afromosa to fall apart so I can justify a Woodsong Curly Maple. 

However it just refuses to roll over, so I guess I'll have to spend this year's "indulgeance fund" on a NAC82 instead

Posted on: 22 May 2017 by Tabby cat

Thanks Mulberry,

It's always interesting reading about turntable design and difearant manufacturers take on it.I have always enjoyed decks with acrylic platters in the past.The original Pink Triangle was very neautral and as you say, just gets out of the way.I also found this with The Voyd which I borrowed for a couple of months in a system with valve SET amps and Audionote type K speakers.

Posted on: 22 May 2017 by Mulberry

The dps is cut from the same sonic cloth as the Pink Triangles. I had an Anniversary for many years before upgrading to the dps. The latter gives you simply more (or less in this case?) of it and I very much prefer its looks to the typical nineties black ash .

Posted on: 22 May 2017 by Allante93

Wow After doing a little research, I hate I sold mine, but needed the Cash > Aktiv Naim!

Funny thing rocked my LP 12 for 3 Decades, never new what I had!

But, it did match my Briks!

"Yes, there was talk among some enthusiasts that the black plinth was actually the best sounding one, but really most people chose the finish of their LP12 on the basis of its looks, there were far more important things to consider that would affect their LP12’s performance. As a consequence, the two most popular LP12 plinth finishes were the fluted Afromosia and black Ash.

Other finishes, such as Cherry, Maple, Oak, Rosenut, Walnut and even Rosewood have been made available over the years, although sadly the Fluted Afromosia, Maple and Rosewood have been discontinued. Nevertheless, there is still a good range of finishes to choose from today. However, sometimes people would just like something different; something more appropriate to their tastes and to the decor of their homes.

This is where Chris Harban of Woodsong Audio has been able to help as he has earned himself a reputation..."

I envy you guys!

I guess I Had the Afromosia.

SN:6198x USA

Allante93!

Posted on: 22 May 2017 by Tabby cat

Allante,

As you say there was a nice dovetailing the fluted LP12 plinth and the fluted top of the Briks.In the UK in the late 80's early 90's there was also a rumour that the b!ack plinth sounded better.How true this was I ve no idea.Personally I prefer the look of wood rather than black as a plinth material,but each to their own.

Nice pics as always thanks for posting

Kind regards Ian

 

Posted on: 23 May 2017 by Ardbeg10y
Allante93 posted:
I guess I Had the Afromosia.

 

Allante93!

Lacrimosa?

Posted on: 23 May 2017 by Allante93
Ardbeg10y posted:
Allante93 posted:
I guess I Had the Afromosia.

 

Allante93!

Lacrimosa?

The Forum, a wealth of Information!

Couldn't find a Plinth of Lacrimosia!

"Lacrimosa is Latin for "weeping". It is also a name that derives from Our Lady of Sorrows, a title given to Mary, the mother of Jesus."

Naim ain't cheap!

The weeping prophet! LOL...

Allante93!

Posted on: 24 May 2017 by yeti42

Lacrimosia - made from weeping willow?

Posted on: 24 May 2017 by Marksnaim

I quite like the finish of the Booplinth. Reminiscent of the fluting.

Posted on: 24 May 2017 by james n
Marksnaim posted:

Reminiscent of the fluting.

I always think over compressed JPEG when i see the Booplinth. Still a great looking deck in any plinth finish 

Posted on: 24 May 2017 by Allante93
Marksnaim posted:

I quite like the finish of the Booplinth. Reminiscent of the fluting.

"Machined complete from solid bamboo laminate block

Lightweight, rigid and strong, one piece, low mass construction

No internally glued, screwed, mitred or clamped sections and corner braces found in traditional wooden LP12 plinth constructions"

That's why I sold mine!

Couldn't afford your sweet a** deck!

Enjoy!

Allante93!

Posted on: 24 May 2017 by yeti42

I'm waiting for a hemp laminate. If you're making it out of grass....

Posted on: 26 May 2017 by Ardbeg10y
yeti42 posted:

I'm waiting for a hemp laminate. If you're making it out of grass....

I wonder if the Turntable Plinths come from the same designers as Coffins. I see similarities.

Posted on: 26 May 2017 by Allante93
Ardbeg10y posted:
yeti42 posted:

I'm waiting for a hemp laminate. If you're making it out of grass....

I wonder if the Turntable Plinths come from the same designers as Coffins. I see similarities.

Yes, it DEADENS the vibrations!

Allante93!

Posted on: 26 May 2017 by Clive B
Suzy Wong posted:

Although the fluted Afromosa is, I suppose, the seminal Sondek plinth I've never been fond of it. Indeed I've been "waiting" for my '83 Afromosa to fall apart so I can justify a Woodsong Curly Maple. 

However it just refuses to roll over, so I guess I'll have to spend this year's "indulgeance fund" on a NAC82 instead

Go for a new Woodsong plinth for your LP12. Not only will you you convince yourself that it sounds better, but it'll look gorgeous too. The finish on Woodsong plinths is truly something to behold!

Posted on: 26 May 2017 by Alan Willby

A few years back I was lucky enough to purchase an unused boxed Xerxes 10 with a secondhand Origin Live modified RB250 arm. I bolted in my Goldring 1042 and have never looked back. Sound is sublime with no set up / fiddling. Interestingly there are no upgrades (apart from the mat) - Roksan nailed it straight out of the box as is often the case with their gear. I am now thinking about a Roksan arm - but the OL sounds so good I am worried it might prove to be a backward step.

Posted on: 26 May 2017 by Eoink
Alan Willby posted:

A few years back I was lucky enough to purchase an unused boxed Xerxes 10 with a secondhand Origin Live modified RB250 arm. I bolted in my Goldring 1042 and have never looked back. Sound is sublime with no set up / fiddling. Interestingly there are no upgrades (apart from the mat) - Roksan nailed it straight out of the box as is often the case with their gear. I am now thinking about a Roksan arm - but the OL sounds so good I am worried it might prove to be a backward step.

I ran an original Xerxes with RB300/K9 many years ago, when Roksan first started. That was amazing, then when the Artemiz/Shiraz were launched I added them, I hate to say it but it was a massive transformation. Admittedly that was a low-end MM to a MC switch as well, but for me the Roksan arm did blow away the fantastic Rega. I then went TMS, so I can be sure the Roksan arms benefit from the higher end decks. But having said that I'd say stay where you are, you have an amazing TT which you obviously love listening to listening to music  on, leave it and spend the money on music or another hobby. Xerxes 10 RB250 is an amazing combination, enjoy it! 

Posted on: 27 May 2017 by Suzy Wong
Clive B posted:
Suzy Wong posted:

Although the fluted Afromosa is, I suppose, the seminal Sondek plinth I've never been fond of it. Indeed I've been "waiting" for my '83 Afromosa to fall apart so I can justify a Woodsong Curly Maple. 

However it just refuses to roll over, so I guess I'll have to spend this year's "indulgeance fund" on a NAC82 instead

Go for a new Woodsong plinth for your LP12. Not only will you you convince yourself that it sounds better, but it'll look gorgeous too. The finish on Woodsong plinths is truly something to behold!

I would not argue with either of those points  - I love those curly maples- and if one takes the "source first" mantra to extremes then one should sort out the plinth with corner bracing before top plate, subchassis/bearing etc,etc.

However last week I got "careless" on eBay (no, really*).........and a NAC 82 is now sitting in the study, waiting to go. 

 

 

*OK I lied, it was deliberate. Late model from Lintone Audio.