Alert: this is one of those annoying posts by one who asks for advice then perhaps won't follow it.

Suzy Wong posted:

Clive B posted:

Suzy Wong posted:

Although the fluted Afromosa is, I suppose, the seminal Sondek plinth I've never been fond of it. Indeed I've been "waiting" for my '83 Afromosa to fall apart so I can justify a Woodsong Curly Maple. 

However it just refuses to roll over, so I guess I'll have to spend this year's "indulgeance fund" on a NAC82 instead

Go for a new Woodsong plinth for your LP12. Not only will you you convince yourself that it sounds better, but it'll look gorgeous too. The finish on Woodsong plinths is truly something to behold!

I would not argue with either of those points  - I love those curly maples- and if one takes the "source first" mantra to extremes then one should sort out the plinth with corner bracing before top plate, subchassis/bearing etc,etc.

However last week I got "careless" on eBay (no, really*).........and a NAC 82 is now sitting in the study, waiting to go. 

 

 

*OK I lied, it was deliberate. Late model from Lintone Audio.

I have just had a look at your profile and assume you'll be powering it from the HiCap. Do try it with your Supercap though - it is a significant step up, way more than a second HiCap.

Eoink posted:

Alan Willby posted:

A few years back I was lucky enough to purchase an unused boxed Xerxes 10 with a secondhand Origin Live modified RB250 arm. I bolted in my Goldring 1042 and have never looked back. Sound is sublime with no set up / fiddling. Interestingly there are no upgrades (apart from the mat) - Roksan nailed it straight out of the box as is often the case with their gear. I am now thinking about a Roksan arm - but the OL sounds so good I am worried it might prove to be a backward step.

I ran an original Xerxes with RB300/K9 many years ago, when Roksan first started. That was amazing, then when the Artemiz/Shiraz were launched I added them, I hate to say it but it was a massive transformation. Admittedly that was a low-end MM to a MC switch as well, but for me the Roksan arm did blow away the fantastic Rega. I then went TMS, so I can be sure the Roksan arms benefit from the higher end decks. But having said that I'd say stay where you are, you have an amazing TT which you obviously love listening to listening to music  on, leave it and spend the money on music or another hobby. Xerxes 10 RB250 is an amazing combination, enjoy it! 

Thanks for the advice. I was thinking it would be an (expensive) slippery slope. New arm, shame not to have a nice mc cartridge - oh and a new phonostage. That will buy a lot of vinyl.

Kevin/others - as this thread has veered to other TTs:

- have you heard things like the SME 30/20? Reason I ask is that initial perception of the bigger-rigs is that they are slower/ponderous, which appears to be an artefact of the level of detail retrieved. I cannot get my head around why this should be so - something to do with these damped decks perhaps. Better bass but the uppers are suppressed?

- I haven't heard a Well Tempered yet. The design principles are very interesting (golf ball etc). 

A former Linn LP12 then Roksan Xerxes 20+ owner here, now delighted to own the "entry level" Vertere MG-1 turntable.

In all honesty, I have detected no slowing down of music as the decks have improved. My experience has been the opposite. The quality of effortless timing and emotional engagement with the music has only improved (otherwise I wouldn't have bothered!) with each turntable upgrade.

To Alan with your lovely Xerxes 10, I would suggest looking into the Vertere motor controller for your Xerxes. It has been designed by Touraj (Vertere is his turntable company these days, after he sold his share of Roksan about 4 years ago) and does wonders for Roksan Xerxes and TMS turntables.

Best regards, FT

Foot tapper posted:

A former Linn LP12 then Roksan Xerxes 20+ owner here, now delighted to own the "entry level" Vertere MG-1 turntable.

Best regards, FT

yeti42 posted:

Lacrimosia - made from weeping willow?

Also being a former LP 12 Guy, having the pleasure of residing with The Fluted Afromosa for nearly 2 decades, I wouldn't hesitate to check out the weakest link Guy.

After surfing the Forum, I now I know what TMS stands for!

"Touraj Moghaddam Signature, Roksan’s flagship turntable bettered only by the TMS 3 at four times the price"

The Weakest Link Guy!

Roksan, and Vertere, this guy has Pedigree, and a logical approach as it relates to Hi Fi Utopias! 

Allante93!

PS. That Fluted Lacrimosia is still the sleekest looking deck on the Market!

The Weeping Prophet!  COL!

Clive B posted:

Suzy Wong posted:

Clive B posted:

Suzy Wong posted:

Although the fluted Afromosa is, I suppose, the seminal Sondek plinth I've never been fond of it. Indeed I've been "waiting" for my '83 Afromosa to fall apart so I can justify a Woodsong Curly Maple. 

However it just refuses to roll over, so I guess I'll have to spend this year's "indulgeance fund" on a NAC82 instead

Go for a new Woodsong plinth for your LP12. Not only will you you convince yourself that it sounds better, but it'll look gorgeous too. The finish on Woodsong plinths is truly something to behold!

I would not argue with either of those points  - I love those curly maples- and if one takes the "source first" mantra to extremes then one should sort out the plinth with corner bracing before top plate, subchassis/bearing etc,etc.

However last week I got "careless" on eBay (no, really*).........and a NAC 82 is now sitting in the study, waiting to go. 

 

 

*OK I lied, it was deliberate. Late model from Lintone Audio.

I have just had a look at your profile and assume you'll be powering it from the HiCap. Do try it with your Supercap though - it is a significant step up, way more than a second HiCap.

Yes, how to power the 82, SNAXO and Headline with my current complement of one SC, two HCs, one FC, and two NAPSCs is a whole topic in itself, and deserving of a thread of its own......

Happy Listener posted:

Kevin/others - as this thread has veered to other TTs:

- have you heard things like the SME 30/20? Reason I ask is that initial perception of the bigger-rigs is that they are slower/ponderous, which appears to be an artefact of the level of detail retrieved. I cannot get my head around why this should be so - something to do with these damped decks perhaps. Better bass but the uppers are suppressed?

- I haven't heard a Well Tempered yet. The design principles are very interesting (golf ball etc). 

Happy Listener, I have heard a couple of SME TTs over the years, can't remember what they were, but I was left a bit unmoved. I guess it's just a matter of taste. Any TT which sounds to me overly-analytical just doesn't move me. I like the LP12  for the very things some people criticise it for. I'm not concerned that the Linn is "coloured", I happen to like that particular shade.

I can't remember ever being moved by music played on an oil rig TT (most of which look absolutely horrible in any case), be it a Michell, SME, Vertere, Rock, Nottingham, Clearaudio etc. I don't  why that is, but at the end of the day it's just personal taste, innit? (Although I did once hear an incredibly expensive Continuum turntable at a show in the States and that was very impressive).

The WT is very idiosyncratic but to my ears it has many of the qualities of a good LP12.

Others wll disagree of course.

Foot tapper posted:

A former Linn LP12 then Roksan Xerxes 20+ owner here, now delighted to own the "entry level" Vertere MG-1 turntable.

In all honesty, I have detected no slowing down of music as the decks have improved. My experience has been the opposite. The quality of effortless timing and emotional engagement with the music has only improved (otherwise I wouldn't have bothered!) with each turntable upgrade.

To Alan with your lovely Xerxes 10, I would suggest looking into the Vertere motor controller for your Xerxes. It has been designed by Touraj (Vertere is his turntable company these days, after he sold his share of Roksan about 4 years ago) and does wonders for Roksan Xerxes and TMS turntables.

Best regards, FT

Thanks FT. I have to confess that the whole thing about TT motors has always puzzled me. I have never done any sort of comparison so comment in total ignorance but surely as long as the speed is constant that is as much as is needed isn't it?

Hi Alan,

you might reasonably think so. After all, how hard can it be?

Much harder than it seems.

Remember the Linn LP12?  My first one had a "proper" power supply, namely the original version with the red neon switch and direct mains supply. That was significantly improved by the Valhalla power supply, then improved again by the Lingo or Naim's Armageddon. In recent years, the top LP12s have all been powered by £5,000 of DC motor and Radikal power supply.

I first auditioned my Xerxes with the standard power supply (XP5 or 7?) and preferred my then LP12. So the dealer inserted the Roksan DS1.5 turntable controller, which I promptly ordered. Wow, what a transformation! And the Vertere supply is better still.

If you have never had a dealer demonstration, then please book one to find out for yourself. Be prepared for a startling and pleasant surprise.

Hope this helps, FT

Kevin-W posted:

Happy Listener posted:

Kevin/others - as this thread has veered to other TTs:

- have you heard things like the SME 30/20? Reason I ask is that initial perception of the bigger-rigs is that they are slower/ponderous, which appears to be an artefact of the level of detail retrieved. I cannot get my head around why this should be so - something to do with these damped decks perhaps. Better bass but the uppers are suppressed?

- I haven't heard a Well Tempered yet. The design principles are very interesting (golf ball etc). 

Happy Listener, I have heard a couple of SME TTs over the years, can't remember what they were, but I was left a bit unmoved. I guess it's just a matter of taste. Any TT which sounds to me overly-analytical just doesn't move me. I like the LP12  for the very things some people criticise it for. I'm not concerned that the Linn is "coloured", I happen to like that particular shade.

I can't remember ever being moved by music played on an oil rig TT (most of which look absolutely horrible in any case), be it a Michell, SME, Vertere, Rock, Nottingham, Clearaudio etc. I don't  why that is, but at the end of the day it's just personal taste, innit? (Although I did once hear an incredibly expensive Continuum turntable at a show in the States and that was very impressive).

The WT is very idiosyncratic but to my ears it has many of the qualities of a good LP12.

Others wll disagree of course.

Kevin, thanks.

I had a similar-ish discussion with a speaker manufacturer a few years back. The speakers offered a lot of detail but lacked a sense of emotion/enjoyment. The musical picture was bigger but where had the tune got to? I think it's the same with some TT's. I wonder if it's down to the fact that we start off down the replay ladder and lower end replay devices focus on the upper and mids. When the fuller picture emerges, something disappears(?) - in many cases I find this to be the vocals, which sink back in to the mix. As you say, it's all down to personal taste.

Foot tapper posted:

Hi Alan,

you might reasonably think so. After all, how hard can it be?

Much harder than it seems.

Remember the Linn LP12?  My first one had a "proper" power supply, namely the original version with the red neon switch and direct mains supply. That was significantly improved by the Valhalla power supply, then improved again by the Lingo or Naim's Armageddon. In recent years, the top LP12s have all been powered by £5,000 of DC motor and Radikal power supply.

I first auditioned my Xerxes with the standard power supply (XP5 or 7?) and preferred my then LP12. So the dealer inserted the Roksan DS1.5 turntable controller, which I promptly ordered. Wow, what a transformation! And the Vertere supply is better still.

If you have never had a dealer demonstration, then please book one to find out for yourself. Be prepared for a startling and pleasant surprise.

Hope this helps, FT

It does. Many thanks.

Max_B posted:

(..) before I make a decision I need a very simple thing: I must hear one or two of my older LPs on a good vinyl system, to be aware of the difference and of the possibilities inherent to the system beyond the level I'm at now (very modest). This is what I plan to do later today, at my dealer's.

Best to all

M

So I did it. I took four or five LPs answering to various degrees of likability and wear, from my first, mono copy of Do you believe in magic, 1966, played on everything, to a red vinyl pressing of Joe Pass's Checkmates, to a very plain UK pressing of From Russia with love's soundtrack. Normal discs. I didn't bring my oldest and most loved LP, The Firehouse Five Plus Two Story, vol. 3, to avoid having to explain such music to the simple guys who work in there. That disc is a very private affair.

The available system was:

Gold Note Valore TT (€1049)

Gold Note Donatello Red cart (€500)

Gold Note PH 10 phono stage (€1000)

NAC 282, SCDR, NAP300DR

Harbeth SHL5+, on TonTräger stands.

The result: good of course. More of everything (including noise), and a definite touch of modernity superimposed on the sound I was so used to. Everything more incisive, more in my face, worse transients* and better 3D. In a way, it was like looking at a recent picture of Nicole Kidman: I could get the effect of what updated technology has done to the original stuff and, through that, traces of the great beauty that there once was. But it was a completely different thing.

*

So I have taken my Pioneer SA 7300 to my trusted technician and had it serviced. It was not a big shot - €35. A handful of dead caps replaced, bias regulated, that sort of thing. At home, I re-soldered good spades to my also trusted Chord Campana speaker wire and re-installed everything as it was. I played Please please me, and it sounded ok. Even more than ok. Thanks a lot for all who have replied and for the good advices, but so far 'serious' vinyl listening is not yet for me.

Best to everyone

M

* Than CD

P.S. The WT Simplex was not there. Only much more costly models, and the guy didn't seem too keen on demoing them, as I wasn't keen on having him work uselessly for me 30 minutes before closing time when I knew I would not buy any of those.

I really like your approach towards this Max 

Thanks. In the present moment, I try to really understand what's good in what I have and to resist the classic urge to buy something more or just different.

I hope this won't cause the fall of the global audio business...

☺

M

Max_B posted:

'I played Please please me, and it sounded ok.'

I want to accentuate this little gem in context of the whole story. Very Woody Allen.

M