monitor speakers for nap 300

spacey posted:

Huge posted:

spacey posted:

From my experiences with monitors, there's no need to go to such expense. The likes of ATC 20SLs ProAc D2's, Kudos C10s and so on will relish being on the end of a NAP300. The trick is to find an 88-91db speaker your amp will drive to its limits with ease, then you'll find the speaker disappears. 

Why do you believe that the speaker sensitivity is relevant to a 90W amplifier in a 14/15ft room?

Because smaller cabs require higher pressure, starting and stopping the driver quickly and firmly makes all the difference  

I don't understand.

Away from resonance, pressure in the cabinet is inversely related to frequency, so for higher sensitivity you get less bass extension; the internal pressure has nothing to do with how quickly you can start and stop the movement of the cone - air is easily compressible.

Starting and stopping the driver quickly aren't related to the sensitivity of the speaker, instead they're related to the system 'Q' (electrical, mechanical and acoustic).  The only thing directly related to the sensitivity of the speaker is the volume of the sound emitted at a given drive voltage level.

Furthermore, starting and stopping the driver quickly aren't the same thing and each has a different relationship to the separate elements making up the system 'Q'.

Not only that but you recommend the ATC 20SL, which in it's current guise is 85dB/W sensitivity - sort of defeats your argument really!

I think Keler Pierre needs to qualify what he means by a monitor.

To ask any upper end dealer for a high quality monitor to audition, the thought of giving the presentation described by BLUEBEARD of the Kharmas would come to mind, as traditionally that's the appeal of a Monitor. Yes

I have heard Wilson Duette 2s in my room with a 500 Naim system and they sounded too bright for my liking. The treble was an irratation. The Sabrina model, however, was a delight but you had to have it a metre or so into the room to overcome a bass boom mode in my living room.

TOBYJUG posted:

I think Keler Pierre needs to qualify what he means by a monitor.

To ask any upper end dealer for a high quality monitor to audition, the thought of giving the presentation described by BLUEBEARD of the Kharmas would come to mind, as traditionally that's the appeal of a Monitor. Yes

you are right, i could have asked monitors or medium/little floorstanders. You advised me Tad evolution and it seems a good choice, but i don't know yet how they sound with naim and if they have enough prat also.

I am thinking also of raido d1, but don't know really how they sound too.

I know now that kharma will not be my cup of tea. As for neat xl6, they seem to be not so easy in 16/17 feet room, and mine is 14/15 feet.

Ghettoyout posted:

I have heard Wilson Duette 2s in my room with a 500 Naim system and they sounded too bright for my liking. The treble was an irratation. The Sabrina model, however, was a delight but you had to have it a metre or so into the room to overcome a bass boom mode in my living room.

ok, i was sceptical with wilson and you confirmed me. 

Tobyjug has asked a good question, why do you want monitor speakers?

Monitor speakers are designed to allow studio sound engineers to get an analytical view of music for monitoring the quality of recording and mastering purposes.

They're not designed to present a musically coherent sound where everything sounds together as a whole performance, instead they're designed to highlight defects in recordings and to analytically pick apart every separate element of the music.

Is this really what you want?

Bluebeard posted:

Moussa posted:

Hi Giles,

How is your Nap300DR driving the Neat XL6? these isobariks are not easy to drive I guess. Do you think the XL6 can placed in a 4x5 meter room?

Thanks

Moussa

Hi Moussa,

Glorious, transcendent, sublime.

And my xl6's are in a 4.5m x5m room 35-40cm from the rear wall (brick) floor is concrete and rugged, one solid brick wall, one windowed brick wall, one set of heavily curtained double windows (4m across) and one open wall. Very little ringing in the room and no real prominent resonant nodes. So yes I think they can be, though occasionally (very occassionally) I am tempted to demo the standmounter XLS to see if they are a better fit.

Whilst they area  load, I rarely need to go over 9.30 on the 552, 10:30 and you're struggling to breathe as the air is driven out of the room. TBH the only real problem with the combo is that it is so clean that even at very loud volumes there is no distortion - so often the only real sign of loudness is my partner screaming down the stairs to down it down! The previous 250.2 tended to get a touch plummy at the same volumes.

regards,

Giles

 

Thank you for the detailed answer and happy that this combo works so well for you. Honestly I have never heard any Neat speaker that doesn't sound good!

Huge posted:

 

Monitor speakers are designed to allow studio sound engineers to get an analytical view of music for monitoring the quality of recording and mastering purposes.

They're not designed to present a musically coherent sound where everything sounds together as a whole performance, instead they're designed to highlight defects in recordings and to analytically pick apart every separate element of the music.

Is this really what you want?

True, although most of the BBC designed monitors found favour with audiophiles.  What with some cabinet resonances from the thin wall lossy construction lending a bloom that euphonised the analytical emphasis.

Harbeth, the classic Spendors and Graham Audio have followed this route.

Funny you should mention that; I use Spendor SP2s!...  With a NAP300(DR)!

Huge posted:

Tobyjug has asked a good question, why do you want monitor speakers?

Monitor speakers are designed to allow studio sound engineers to get an analytical view of music for monitoring the quality of recording and mastering purposes.

They're not designed to present a musically coherent sound where everything sounds together as a whole performance, instead they're designed to highlight defects in recordings and to analytically pick apart every separate element of the music.

Is this really what you want?

i am not sure you are 100% right. In medium size room, 15 feet as mine( 19 m2), monitors like tad, harbeth, raidho, can sound the best. But i am not sure that i don't prefer little floorstanders. 

Keler Pierre posted:

Huge posted:

Tobyjug has asked a good question, why do you want monitor speakers?

Monitor speakers are designed to allow studio sound engineers to get an analytical view of music for monitoring the quality of recording and mastering purposes.

They're not designed to present a musically coherent sound where everything sounds together as a whole performance, instead they're designed to highlight defects in recordings and to analytically pick apart every separate element of the music.

Is this really what you want?

i am not sure you are 100% right. In medium size room, 15 feet as mine( 19 m2), monitors like tad, harbeth, raidho, can sound the best. But i am not sure that i don't prefer little floorstanders. 

Ah, are you confusing the term 'monitor' with a stand-mount speaker?  There's no reason why a monitor couldn't be designed as a floor-stander.

Jmr offrande v2. And they are in your backyard

Huge posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Huge posted:

Tobyjug has asked a good question, why do you want monitor speakers?

Monitor speakers are designed to allow studio sound engineers to get an analytical view of music for monitoring the quality of recording and mastering purposes.

They're not designed to present a musically coherent sound where everything sounds together as a whole performance, instead they're designed to highlight defects in recordings and to analytically pick apart every separate element of the music.

Is this really what you want?

i am not sure you are 100% right. In medium size room, 15 feet as mine( 19 m2), monitors like tad, harbeth, raidho, can sound the best. But i am not sure that i don't prefer little floorstanders. 

Ah, are you confusing the term 'monitor' with a stand-mount speaker?  There's no reason why a monitor couldn't be designed as a floor-stander.

ah yes, i think i am confusing. I am searching stand mount or little floorstanders. In France we say monitors for stand-month. 

leni v posted:

Jmr offrande v2. And they are in your backyard

no sorry, i heard already jean marie renaud with naim and icos, not my sound. and the design is so ugly...But no offence, i know these speakers have good reputation.

wilson benesh with naim?  anyone.  I heard 10 years ago, so long time, wilson benesh act 2 with my past nap 200: i enjoyed. But wilson benesh today, i don't know.

I have tried the Trinity, the Discovery and the ACT from Wilson Benesch but was not wowed by them with my NAP135, so looked elsewhere. The Wilson Sophia 2 (now superseded) worked really well and ended up only 11" from the back wall, despite being rear ported, so the Duette should be fine if you like what they do.

SF Guarneri Memento were simply delightful with 22" of space behind them. They don't have much output below 40 Hertz, which is low enough for most people but not full range. However, the Guarneri Evolution has much more bass and needed a lot of space behind it in our room.

The Neats should work a treat and are very good, if not the most refined at the top end. They sound lovely until you hear something better, then realise what's missing.

The new Kudos Titan 606 should be on your list if you have a stockist nearby.

Finally, look out for a pair of Naim's SL2 speakers if you are lucky enough to find a pair and can position them up against a solid wall.

Hope this helps, FT

Funny to see mention of SL2s. My room is about 18m2 and they work wonderfully. And being against the wall they don't get in the way, unlike a standmount with 30cm behind it. For £2,000 you'd get something that will hold its own against new speakers at £8,000 plus. 

i will perhaps look also at the wilson duette. Kudos and neat not sold in France. For naim speakers, not my sound....nor bw, nor proac , nor focal or spendor.  I have enjoyed also lecontour stabile 260 with nap 250, but they are not produced anymore. They were sealed speakers, so easier with room...very quick, articulate, dynamic and very natural. With Focal, bw, proac and naim amps, something is wrong for me: the sound is too fat or heavy, or a little bright...but these speakers with other amps can be fabulous.  It is of course only my opinion.

I think that wilson benesh have changed a lot since 10 years, i will be curious to hear them today,

So i will investigate now wilson duette, tad evolution, raidho d1 and wilson benesh. It will not be easy....   Thanks for your help.

Also listen to the Harbeth SHL5+ and the C7s. I prefer these over the 30.1s,

lacks bass, but once you get used to it - there's no other speaker as good...