Links in the Ethernet chain

The wireless hub (router) to switch is perfectly OK with Cat-5 ( as is all the audio network)  The NAS-switch-272 might well be improved with a better cable but the hub-switch branch does not have such an effect.   Two examples I've seen:    I had a Cat-7A (1300MHz F/STP) temporarily hooked up during room mods,  when I went back to the normal Cat-6, nothing changed.   A friend (Linn KDS) replaced 10m of Cat-5 with AQ Pearl & was very surprised it did not make any improvements.   Your setup might possibly be improved if the hub-switch branch as a defect, not so much the cables as such,  but maybe worth looking at wall socket(s) & how they are interconnected.    

Interesting. Kind of on the same vein, is there any point in adding a dedicated switch just for the NAS/272? Atm I have everything plugged straight into the hub, which is full. I don't have a nas yet, (only just started streaming), but when do, I'll also need a switch to accommodate this. 

Hi Finkfan,  the fact that you don't have enough ports to connect a NAS is a good enough excuse to get a switch if ever I heard one.   ISP hubs are IME a bit iffy with their abilities as a switch,  maybe the latest models are better/good, but I know the old ones are pants.  The non-ISP (3rd party) hubs all seem to be pretty good.   Problem with them all is they don't publish spec's on switch performance,  so its a bit suck it & see (hear).     When I first started I had it hooked up via a BT HH3,  this overheated (semi melted & stopped) when streaming from NAS over about 2 hours.  Adding a switch solved that problem & gave better SQ.  

It's not so much an advantage to have a dedicated NAS/272 switch,  but if you can, why not.    I have a NAS/NDX switch & a separate study/office switch both running off the BT HH5 (the hub has just 2 ethernets connected)   I've done it primarily for wiring simplicity.    

Thanks for the info Mike. 

Many thanks Mike. That is informative and helpful.

Kind regards 

David 

S3 posted:

I currently have audio quest cinnamon Ethernet cables going from my TPLink SG-105 5 port Gigabit Switch to my UnitiServe and to my N272.

I think that is fine but I often wonder whether I should be looking to enhance the quality of the Ethernet cable that runs from my router to the switch. It is bog standard Cat5E cable from Maplin and cost a fiver for a 10m run.

Before the wall socket there is another 5m run of the same cable to the router in the room below my listening room.

Is it worth looking at improving the quality of the cables between the router and the switch or will it likely make no difference. Also is it worth considering a better switch to replace the £20 TPLink one I have?

Many thanks for any insight.

David 

i advice you to read "linear ps for switch and router", "ethernet cable" and "cisco 2960 switch " topics on the forum. You will be surprised.  For me: a good lan before the streamer : absolutely yes.  a dedicated switch, different from your router : absolutely 2 yes.  But read before these topics...

S3 posted:

I currently have audio quest cinnamon Ethernet cables going from my TPLink SG-105 5 port Gigabit Switch to my UnitiServe and to my N272.

I think that is fine but I often wonder whether I should be looking to enhance the quality of the Ethernet cable that runs from my router to the switch. It is bog standard Cat5E cable from Maplin and cost a fiver for a 10m run.

Before the wall socket there is another 5m run of the same cable to the router in the room below my listening room.

Is it worth looking at improving the quality of the cables between the router and the switch or will it likely make no difference. Also is it worth considering a better switch to replace the £20 TPLink one I have?

Many thanks for any insight.

David 

Hi I really think this would not be a useful use of funds. If the physical conditions of an Ethernet link are going to affect things it will be on the segment between the streamer host and it's connected switch port. If you are hearing changes from changes in other segments that points to me ddecoupling deficiencies in the switch connected to the streamer, and if such a case occurs try using a more robust better quality switch. A good switch will have good port decoupling and be effectively grounded so as to maximise physical isolation between ports. Some of the little consumer switches are not grounded through their PSU, but have a seperate ground tag on the case, it might be useful to ground the switch if it's floating. BTW you don't need a dedicated switch for your streamer, but you may find if your broadband router is an older or less capable design it's switchports or more specifically it's wifi can interfere with effective discovery protocol techniques. Using a seperate switch and wifi access point on your home network can help in such situations.

Normal home network wiring should be fine with 4 pair Cat 5e. This will be good for 1Gbps line speed upto 100 metres segment length.  For your patch lead between streamer host and switchport you can try different variants of shielded cable and designs so as to minimise local RF coupling to the streamer.

Simon

Agreed Simon. Thanks. I have no desire to change the cabling between router and switch (it will make no difference) and I'm comfortable that the audio quest cinnamon Ethernet cables going from the switch to the UnitiServe and the 272 are of decent quality.

However I may look into upgrading the TPLink SG-105 switch. Do you have a recommendation in the regard?

Thanks

David

I don't suppose an ethernet isolator should be added? I have read a few folks here who have done that....

S3 posted:

...... I often wonder whether I should be looking to enhance the quality of the Ethernet cable that runs from my router to the switch. It is bog standard Cat5E cable from Maplin and cost a fiver for a 10m run.

I've seen some very cheap Cat5e cables that look pretty dodgy to me, and I would tend to try to avoid them. For example, I have a cheap 10m length bought on ebay for about a fiver, and the round outer casing will not maintain its shape. Trying to bend it neatly round a corner is almost impossible without putting a kink in it, which can't be ideal. I'm not suggesting you start ripping out your Maplin cable if it appears to be working OK, and even if you do, I'm certainly not suggesting that you need to buy exotic audiophile stuff to replace it, but my experience suggests that you might need to take a little care with what you're buying at the bottom end of the market.

I thought about using AudioQuest CAT6 Pearl RJ/E Ethernet Cable Custom (£3/m plus £4 for termination) for a "long run" of about 12m (between router and switch). Any experience here with this cable? 

Cheers!

Timo

ChrisSU posted:

I've seen some very cheap Cat5e cables that look pretty dodgy to me, and I would tend to try to avoid them. For example, I have a cheap 10m length bought on ebay for about a fiver, and the round outer casing will not maintain its shape. Trying to bend it neatly round a corner is almost impossible without putting a kink in it, which can't be ideal.

No idea if this is relevant in your case ... but this often happens when you use "installation" cable in a non-installation ("patch" cable) situation.  There is a difference between the cable for installs and the stuff you should be running across the floor, etc.

Will Cat6 cable work in place of Cat5E?

The reason I ask is that, a couple of weeks ago, I replaced the Cat5E that ran from the wall plug to the switch with 5m of Cat7 cable.

It didn't work. No data passing through it so I reinstalled the Cat5E and normal service was resumed.

I can only assume that the network is not Cat7 compatible but I wonder if it is Cat6 compatible or if it can only work with Cat5E?

I ran cat6 to replace 5e with no problems at all. I've not tried the bigger cats though. 

S3 posted:

Will Cat6 cable work in place of Cat5E?

The reason I ask is that, a couple of weeks ago, I replaced the Cat5E that ran from the wall plug to the switch with 5m of Cat7 cable.

It didn't work. No data passing through it so I reinstalled the Cat5E and normal service was resumed.

I can only assume that the network is not Cat7 compatible but I wonder if it is Cat6 compatible or if it can only work with Cat5E?

Sounds like a faulty cable to me, there's no reason why Cat7 shouldn't work. Maybe if it was a crossover cable it would be no good? 

Eloise posted:

ChrisSU posted:

I've seen some very cheap Cat5e cables that look pretty dodgy to me, and I would tend to try to avoid them. For example, I have a cheap 10m length bought on ebay for about a fiver, and the round outer casing will not maintain its shape. Trying to bend it neatly round a corner is almost impossible without putting a kink in it, which can't be ideal.

No idea if this is relevant in your case ... but this often happens when you use "installation" cable in a non-installation ("patch" cable) situation.  There is a difference between the cable for installs and the stuff you should be running across the floor, etc.

You could be right, the cable had Cat5e printed on it, but it's unbranded, and came with no documentation. I've just checked the invoice, and it was actually £1.99 including postage! Still, it works, despite being oval in some places, and virtually flat in others.

Eloise posted:

ChrisSU posted:

I've seen some very cheap Cat5e cables that look pretty dodgy to me, and I would tend to try to avoid them. For example, I have a cheap 10m length bought on ebay for about a fiver, and the round outer casing will not maintain its shape. Trying to bend it neatly round a corner is almost impossible without putting a kink in it, which can't be ideal.

No idea if this is relevant in your case ... but this often happens when you use "installation" cable in a non-installation ("patch" cable) situation.  There is a difference between the cable for installs and the stuff you should be running across the floor, etc.

The primary difference between installation cable and patch cable is resilience.  Installation cables are designed to be installed and left untouched for years on end.  patch cables have to allow for repeated flexure.

Installation cables also assume that the cable routing will be designed so that the cable never needs to be bent tighter than the minimum bend radius - even during the installation process.  Patch cables are designed with a minimum bend radius when operating, however the effect of bending sharper than this when not operating is typically undefined, but unless the cable is permanently deformed it should be OK.

Note the last part... "Patch cables are designed with a minimum bend radius when operating."; "Trying to bend it neatly round a corner is almost impossible without putting a kink in it, which can't be ideal."...  Indeed not, that will probably be a sharper bend than the minimum bend radius and hence compromise performance.

blu-jeans cables based out of seattle finishes great cables.

S3 posted:

Will Cat6 cable work in place of Cat5E?

The reason I ask is that, a couple of weeks ago, I replaced the Cat5E that ran from the wall plug to the switch with 5m of Cat7 cable.

It didn't work. No data passing through it so I reinstalled the Cat5E and normal service was resumed.

I can only assume that the network is not Cat7 compatible but I wonder if it is Cat6 compatible or if it can only work with Cat5E?

Yes a Cat6 will replace a Cat5.      Your problem was clearly a fault in the cable,  there is no such thing as 'not Cat7 compatible',  any cable category will work anywhere in any network,  the fact that it did not pass anything is a cable fault.  

The various categories are simply a bandwidth point (MHz) where the cable reaches predetermined performance limits.     Cat5 is good for 100MHz,  Cat5e improves on 5 but is still 100MHz,  Cat6 is 250MHz Cat6A is 500HMz.    All Naim (all audio equipment) is compatible with Cat5e & 100MHz.   

Thanks Mike. That makes sense. I just returned it for a refund as soon as it didn't work so no issues there but I did find it's failure odd.

So I just tried to swap a Cat6 cable in place of my CAT5E cable and the same thing happened. No data getting through at all. Plugged the 5e back in and all working fine. As the same thing has now happened twice (once with CAT7 and now with CAT6) it can not be the case that the CAT6 cable is faulty. Any ideas?

S3 posted:

So I just tried to swap a Cat6 cable in place of my CAT5E cable and the same thing happened. No data getting through at all. Plugged the 5e back in and all working fine. As the same thing has now happened twice (once with CAT7 and now with CAT6) it can not be the case that the CAT6 cable is faulty. Any ideas?

That sounds very odd! Do you have any info on the brand and spec of the cables that aren't working?

So this latest one which I'm about to return was V7 Cat6 UTP 5m RJ45 Male to Male Patch Cable. £18 from the big River.

Is the wiring to your wall socket correct and been checked ?  Might be worth trying an RJ45 cable checker to see if you've got any swapped connections.

It sounds rather like there's a cross-connect cable downstream, I don't suppose you know the description of the working CAT5e?