Navigating through Naim digital range of products

Hi Paul, thanks for comments.

Yes, you're right, UQute can neither play nor rip CD's, nor have I said so. ...but yes, playing CD's can be added to the list for HDX, UServe, and Uniti.

I am not sure if the newest versions of HDX have local back up. Maybe an expert can clarify this?

Here is Aysil's classification of Naim's digital lineup in chart form. I've added the SuperUniti for completeness. I'll update the chart with corrections & adjustments that I'm sure will be pointed out shortly !

Jan

Has anyone evaluated the UServe as a cd player?  UServe + Nait XS + nDAC would suit all of my needs if the cd player function is up to par.  I will ask my dealer to set up an A/B comparison for me but would be delighted to hear about what others have heard.

As a CD player, the combination of the Serve and DAC is surprisingly good, but not as relaxing as when listening to the ripped file. Could it be the noise from the disk drive spinning during playback, or vibration-induced microphony  ?  It takes a few seconds for the Serve to read the disk and start playing, so it’s a bit slower than a regular CD player to start up. You gain the advantage of the nServe app to view the album cover and tracks, and control playback. I rarely use the Serve in this mode ; it just makes so much more sense to rip the CD, IMO.

Interested to hear your findings on an A/B comparison at your dealer.

Jan

Just came across the thread.

My two cents.

I think Hook's idea about the wizard would be helpful for both the customer and the dealer, before the customer even enters the dealer's showroom. Most of the Naim dealers I know are run ragged servicing their customers, in and out of the store, and time is at a premium. That said, I understand David's point as well.

David says: "@Hook - we have developed tools for retailers in the US to explain the solutions available, though it really requires sufficient product on display to make good use of the demo techniques."

In my opinion, there's the rub. I live in the largest city in Canada, and you're lucky to see just a few of Naim's digital products together at the same time in the same store. Times are tough, even in the Greater Toronto area, and most dealers seem to be running on a very 'lean' basis. On a couple of occasions, when I bought a new Naim product, I had to buy the demonstrator. The various dealers had 'limited' stock. To the degree, that at times, getting a demo was impossible.

Dave

Jan-Erik,

nice looking chart.  Only things you may wish to add are PSU upgradeability and s/pdif output.  For example, HDX, NDX and nDAC can all be upgraded with either an XPS2 or 555PS.  All bar the Uniti have an an s/pdif output.

Richard and Plinko,

As Leonard Cohen said after his solo on the Casio keyboard during the ‘Live in London’ concert : « You’re very kind » …

But the credit is due to Aysil for having thought up the classification.

Good idea Richard to add PSU upgradeability and S/PDIF outputs. I’ll add these to the function list and then work on a more graphically interesting version.

Thanks guys,

Jan

Jan-Erik,

Thank you for the contribution. It would really help to see all Naim network players on a chart together with the explanations of each function. You realize it is actually not so complicated contrary to how all is presented on the website.

I would also add S/PDIF inputs. For example, HDX has no input although it has an internal dac. This information may be important if you have an additional digital transport or if you need an additional digital input for AE or similar.

I would also add some detail to the i-device docking column, as they support different i-devices as explained in this post.

Updated version :

very good !

there is a small mistake: HDX and UServe do not have UPnP Control Point. Naim believes Control point should not be on the server.

Thanks for you hard work on this. Something Naim should have produced. I think it may save me purchasing both a Unitiserve and an NDX as I will be able to connect the Unitiserve direct to the nDAC and then also stream from the Unitiserve to the system in my office.

I am told that the Unitiserve will soon receive an upgrade to include internet radio. I can use it on my main system and move my Sonos to the office system

It still seems to me that there is a lot of overlap between the products which leads to confusion but your guide helps a lot. Thanks again.

Another small mistake, IIRC: the Uniti has some  S/PDIF inputs too.

It has just been suggested to me that the NDX "does a much better job of undoing the data packages than a Unitiserve"  and (by implication) that it sounds better.

I am now confused again and wonder whether I might be better off with an HDX instead of an NDX and Unitiserve. I don't need the dac sections of either the NDX or the HDX. Obviously the Unitiserve is the cheapest option so I wonder whether the difference in sound quality would warrant the addtional expenditure for the NDX or HDX.

Aaaaaargh!

Hi Graham -

At your level of kit, I am guessing that the NDX would be better than a US as a digital source for your DAC.  I have not heard the US, but for me, the NDX was a very nice upgrade in S/PDIF output versus my PC server with its pro audio sound card (RME 9632).

And if you do buy an NDX, and if you enjoy the whole iPad/N-Stream/Asset UPnP thing, then I think you would do well to consider selling your CDS3, and moving your 555PS to your DAC.   It is hard for me to imagine a better source than the NDX->DAC/555PS!

AllenB, Simon-in-Suffolk, Aysil and others have posted extensively on this exact subject -- definitely worth a search through the archives.

Good luck!

Hook

Aysil,

Are you sure ? When using the UnitiServe into the nDAC, the control point is in the UServe ; it is in effect acting as a streaming client. When connected to "proper" streaming client (NDX, Qute), then the control point moves to the NDX or Qute.

Jan  

correction to S/PDIF inputs on Uniti

At the moment I use my Sonos for convenience and sometimes put the 555ps on the ndac. Generally, I use the 555ps on the cds3. I have followed some of the comments about cd vs streaming.

But back to streaming - apart from being in one box, what are the advantages /disadvantages of an HDX compared to an NDX/Unitserve combination?

I can see that one could start with just a Unitiserve to rip store and stream and then add an NDX later to improve sound quality if you couldn't afford an HDX outright. But is that all? Does the NDX sound better than the HDX? Roll on the Summer Sounds event in Dartford so I can go and listen to the various combos

Aysil, Jan-Erik and All,

Many thanks for opening this topic and advancing it so well!  It's a great service.

I have an excellent dealer, very knowledgable and helpful, but sometimes it is even hard to know how to frame the questions to ask.  This provides the framework.  Bravo!

I have been contemplating a UServe and nDAC combination and this helps me be more confident that this combination will do what i want and set me up reasonably for what I anticipate wanting to get out of streaming music.  

However, I admit I am still confused by the inclusion of "iRadio" in the chart, yet in Aysil's original post it was said to be "coming soon" to the UServe, but in a subsequent post 'Pandora, etc.' these are said to be only accessible by playing through and iPod/Airport Express/and digital in, etc.  As I find so much new music via Pandora I REALLY want this easy function.  Does anyone here have a clearer idea?  

For me, control through an iPhone app, (or just iTunes!!) would be the best, if for no other reason than I am already carrying the thing around in my pocket.  Perhaps 

This, of course raises another entire point.  As I travel a great deal the iPod (on iPhone) combined with Shure's wonderful 535 earbuds monitors are a musical lifeline.  But the idea of maintaining a second databank of music at my house, the UServe db with HD tracks and the iTunes db without really does not thrill me.  I suppose this is all just software and service and some enterprising soul will step up to answer the need, or already has and I am just unaware ...but wouldn't it be nice if it hailed from Salisbury and was nice and easy.

I think this is what it feels like to break new ground.

Hi,

The iRadio (internet radio) function is due to be added to the UnitiServe and HDX, through a software update that is being beta tested by several forum members. Paul Stephenson has stated that it should be generally available late next week. It's not Pandora, but with thousand of stations on offer, new music awaits !

Jan

Jan-Erik,

Thanks for the detail.  Good news.

iRadio is good, but still, Pandora is quite magical in the way it uses the Music Genome project.  I liken it to being akin to a nice jazz 'riff' on a theme of soem music I know I love.  I find I discover more new music on it than anywhere else.

Just my experience, of course.  But still, I find it very exciting.  Similar but more pleasant than using Apple's 'Genius', which can give similar results, but only with the time and effort of online shopping. 

Jan,

I am sure.

The controls of HDX and UServe are only for their local output - digital (S/PDIF) or analogue for HDX, digital (S/PDIF) for UServe. In this case (when HDX or UServe are used as local player) these devices are not UPnP clients, because they receive the data from network shares not through UPnP protocol, but through SAMBA protocols. The advantage of using file sharing through SAMBA protocol is that there is no need for a server or a control point elsewhere on the network (the downside being the higher demand on memory and processing power in the device).

When HDX or UServe is acting as UPnP server, the control point is on the client (e.g. NDX or Qute), which is logical because UPnP is principally for multi-room use.

Therefore, HDX and UServe should be removed from UPnP Control Point column; but I propose to add another column "File Sharing", where HDX and UServe could be marked. Alternatively this column could be combined with Database and called "File Sharing & Database".

Graham,

IMHO, UServe/NDX combination makes sense only in one of the following cases:

1) if these devices need to be different rooms (multi-room use)

2) if you already have UServe (or a computer server) and want a sound upgrade with NDX

3) if you already have NDX and want to add a Naim ripping solution with UServe

4) if you cannot afford an HDX outright and need a step by step upgrade path

Otherwise, HDX makes much more sense because it is less expensive than the UServe/NDX combination, and to my experience it sounds slightly better than the combination. This last sonic comment presupposes an external DAC (e.g. nDAC). If there is no external DAC in play, then the different sound characteristics of internal DACs of NDX and HDX comes into play and there may be different opinions on them.

Aysil

-"and to my experience it sounds slightly better than the combination. This last sonic comment presupposes an external DAC (e.g. nDAC). If there is no external DAC in play, then the different sound characteristics of internal DACs of NDX and HDX comes into play and there may be different opinions on them."

I agree with your logic about purchasing strategy, location of components and the comments about different dac sections. However, whilst not doubting your own personal experience, a Naim contact has suggested the exact opposite re sound quality on the basis that the NDX does a much better job of streaming the data from the server to the dac.

I hope they may be able to demonstrate this at the Summer Roadshow.