Units core- short lived ?

Eloise posted:

nbpf posted:

Klout10 posted:

Guys, there can be many many reasons for a person to make the decision to sell audio gear ... I'm pretty sure that there is nothing wrong with all the Naim gear that is up for sale out there. Well, that person putting up someting for sale which he/she has owned for a very short period of time can also have other reasons than software issues: have you thought about losing your job or getting a divorce? 

It all depends: if one does not happen to be in financial need, losing the job or getting a divorce could actually be good reasons for buying new gear rather than selling it! 

Perhaps "he's" been buying too much equipment ... sneaking it into the house without discussion with the wife.  Its either sell all the equipment OR divorce :-)

Very good point Eloise! Der alte Sturm, die alte Müh’, I had almost forgotten!

Adam Zielinski posted:

nbpf posted:

Richard Dane posted:

I use my Core as a ripper, store, server and local player (via s/pif) and so far its working really well.  If I download a music file on my computer then I sort out the metadata, clean up file structure etc. on the computer because that's what a computer is really good at doing.  I imagine that many of the issues reported with the Core are down to trying to get it to do things that its not ideal at doing?  Anyway, just to add my ha'penny worth, so far I'm very pleased with the Core and...  the most important thing - it sounds great!

I agree that metadata editing of downloaded files is better done on a computer with a physical keyboard and, ideally, before sending the files to the server. From this point of view, Naim's decision not to support metadata editing of the contents of the downloads folder is sensible and perfectly justified.

I also would agree that "many of the issues reported with the Core are down to trying to get it to do things that its not ideal at doing" if you would concede that "the things that it is not ideal at doing" encompass very basic functionalities that one can legitimately expect a music server to support.

In particular, it seems to me perfectly reasonable to expect the Core to well support organizing, searching and browsing classical music contents. This is however far from being the case. It also seems to me perfectly reasonable to expect the Core's player to seamlessy integrate local storage, network attached storage, internet radio and internet streaming resources. This is also not the case.

I do not want to repeat myself but the list of expectations that the Core has failed to meet is very, very long. This would not be a problem by itself if Naim had indicated the willingness to correct the most severe deficiencies through upcoming software releases. This also has not been the case.

Have you actually tested the Core?

No, I haven't. Thus, I cannot actually offer any opinion on its sound quality, reliability, speed, etc.

nbpf posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

nbpf posted:

Richard Dane posted:

I use my Core as a ripper, store, server and local player (via s/pif) and so far its working really well.  If I download a music file on my computer then I sort out the metadata, clean up file structure etc. on the computer because that's what a computer is really good at doing.  I imagine that many of the issues reported with the Core are down to trying to get it to do things that its not ideal at doing?  Anyway, just to add my ha'penny worth, so far I'm very pleased with the Core and...  the most important thing - it sounds great!

I agree that metadata editing of downloaded files is better done on a computer with a physical keyboard and, ideally, before sending the files to the server. From this point of view, Naim's decision not to support metadata editing of the contents of the downloads folder is sensible and perfectly justified.

I also would agree that "many of the issues reported with the Core are down to trying to get it to do things that its not ideal at doing" if you would concede that "the things that it is not ideal at doing" encompass very basic functionalities that one can legitimately expect a music server to support.

In particular, it seems to me perfectly reasonable to expect the Core to well support organizing, searching and browsing classical music contents. This is however far from being the case. It also seems to me perfectly reasonable to expect the Core's player to seamlessy integrate local storage, network attached storage, internet radio and internet streaming resources. This is also not the case.

I do not want to repeat myself but the list of expectations that the Core has failed to meet is very, very long. This would not be a problem by itself if Naim had indicated the willingness to correct the most severe deficiencies through upcoming software releases. This also has not been the case.

Have you actually tested the Core?

No, I haven't. Thus, I cannot actually offer any opinion on its sound quality, reliability, speed, etc.

Good that you are so critical of it then. 

Generally forum members share opinions and valuableninsights on products they have tested, tried or used....

Adam Zielinski posted:

nbpf posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

nbpf posted:

Richard Dane posted:

I use my Core as a ripper, store, server and local player (via s/pif) and so far its working really well.  If I download a music file on my computer then I sort out the metadata, clean up file structure etc. on the computer because that's what a computer is really good at doing.  I imagine that many of the issues reported with the Core are down to trying to get it to do things that its not ideal at doing?  Anyway, just to add my ha'penny worth, so far I'm very pleased with the Core and...  the most important thing - it sounds great!

I agree that metadata editing of downloaded files is better done on a computer with a physical keyboard and, ideally, before sending the files to the server. From this point of view, Naim's decision not to support metadata editing of the contents of the downloads folder is sensible and perfectly justified.

I also would agree that "many of the issues reported with the Core are down to trying to get it to do things that its not ideal at doing" if you would concede that "the things that it is not ideal at doing" encompass very basic functionalities that one can legitimately expect a music server to support.

In particular, it seems to me perfectly reasonable to expect the Core to well support organizing, searching and browsing classical music contents. This is however far from being the case. It also seems to me perfectly reasonable to expect the Core's player to seamlessy integrate local storage, network attached storage, internet radio and internet streaming resources. This is also not the case.

I do not want to repeat myself but the list of expectations that the Core has failed to meet is very, very long. This would not be a problem by itself if Naim had indicated the willingness to correct the most severe deficiencies through upcoming software releases. This also has not been the case.

Have you actually tested the Core?

No, I haven't. Thus, I cannot actually offer any opinion on its sound quality, reliability, speed, etc.

Good that you are so critical of it then. 

...

I have certainly not expressed any opinion on the sound quality, reliability and speed of the Core. As I mentioned, I only would possibly be able to do so if I had actually demoed the device. I can only provide opinions on the Core's specifications since this does not require any testing, of course.

Adam Zielinski posted:

nbpf posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

nbpf posted:

Richard Dane posted:

I use my Core as a ripper, store, server and local player (via s/pif) and so far its working really well.  If I download a music file on my computer then I sort out the metadata, clean up file structure etc. on the computer because that's what a computer is really good at doing.  I imagine that many of the issues reported with the Core are down to trying to get it to do things that its not ideal at doing?  Anyway, just to add my ha'penny worth, so far I'm very pleased with the Core and...  the most important thing - it sounds great!

I agree that metadata editing of downloaded files is better done on a computer with a physical keyboard and, ideally, before sending the files to the server. From this point of view, Naim's decision not to support metadata editing of the contents of the downloads folder is sensible and perfectly justified.

I also would agree that "many of the issues reported with the Core are down to trying to get it to do things that its not ideal at doing" if you would concede that "the things that it is not ideal at doing" encompass very basic functionalities that one can legitimately expect a music server to support.

In particular, it seems to me perfectly reasonable to expect the Core to well support organizing, searching and browsing classical music contents. This is however far from being the case. It also seems to me perfectly reasonable to expect the Core's player to seamlessy integrate local storage, network attached storage, internet radio and internet streaming resources. This is also not the case.

I do not want to repeat myself but the list of expectations that the Core has failed to meet is very, very long. This would not be a problem by itself if Naim had indicated the willingness to correct the most severe deficiencies through upcoming software releases. This also has not been the case.

Have you actually tested the Core?

No, I haven't. Thus, I cannot actually offer any opinion on its sound quality, reliability, speed, etc.

...

Generally forum members share opinions and valuableninsights on products they have tested, tried or used....

True, but it is not uncommon to read valuable critiques based on product specifications. And, the other way round, it is not uncommon to come across reviews and user reports that raise the question of whether the reviewer has ever happened to read the specs of the product he writes about! The good thing is that reading posts on this forum is not compulsory. Thus, if you think that being a Core user is a necessary condition for posting criticisms of the Core's specs, just ignore my posts. They also tend to be long and quite boring, I am afraid!

Adam Zielinski posted:

nbpf posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

nbpf posted:

Richard Dane posted:

I use my Core as a ripper, store, server and local player (via s/pif) and so far its working really well.  If I download a music file on my computer then I sort out the metadata, clean up file structure etc. on the computer because that's what a computer is really good at doing.  I imagine that many of the issues reported with the Core are down to trying to get it to do things that its not ideal at doing?  Anyway, just to add my ha'penny worth, so far I'm very pleased with the Core and...  the most important thing - it sounds great!

I agree that metadata editing of downloaded files is better done on a computer with a physical keyboard and, ideally, before sending the files to the server. From this point of view, Naim's decision not to support metadata editing of the contents of the downloads folder is sensible and perfectly justified.

I also would agree that "many of the issues reported with the Core are down to trying to get it to do things that its not ideal at doing" if you would concede that "the things that it is not ideal at doing" encompass very basic functionalities that one can legitimately expect a music server to support.

In particular, it seems to me perfectly reasonable to expect the Core to well support organizing, searching and browsing classical music contents. This is however far from being the case. It also seems to me perfectly reasonable to expect the Core's player to seamlessy integrate local storage, network attached storage, internet radio and internet streaming resources. This is also not the case.

I do not want to repeat myself but the list of expectations that the Core has failed to meet is very, very long. This would not be a problem by itself if Naim had indicated the willingness to correct the most severe deficiencies through upcoming software releases. This also has not been the case.

Have you actually tested the Core?

No, I haven't. Thus, I cannot actually offer any opinion on its sound quality, reliability, speed, etc.

Good that you are so critical of it then. 

Generally forum members share opinions and valuableninsights on products they have tested, tried or used....

and you, adam, you seem to defend the core, but have you tested it?   For myself i have tested it, along my serve, but i am not a specialist.  But my reservations, today, for this product, come from all the users complainings in different topics since 6 months : there are too many for now.

But i want to stay confident and perhaps the main problems are fixed today. 

I'm not defending the Core, but that's an interesting projection you are making there [@mention:56335183628232089].

I'm simply surprised to see the level of attacks at every possible moment, mostly from forum members, who have not tested it. Even if they have, what is the point in constantly bashing a product which we are all aware needs fixing?

Adam Zielinski posted:

I'm not defending the Core, but that's an interesting projection you are making there [@mention:56335183628232089].

I'm simply surprised to see the level of attacks at every possible moment, mostly from forum members, who have not tested it. Even if they have, what is the point in constantly bashing a product which we are all aware needs fixing?

ok, i made perhaps a projection. No problem. 

For myself, i had too many bugs with it 2 months ago.  But for a general point of view, when you read a lot of complainings by users of the core, it seems quite normal to be a bit critic about this product for now. Or you can say that the point of view of the core users is not worthwhile...

To end, a product launched 7 months ago which needs still fixing is for me a problem, if i had the purpose to buy it today.

Hi Adam, I've seen this happening before ... as I've mentioned before: at the time of introduction, there were a lot of HDX - 'bashing' threads at the forum ... 

I don't no why ...

Richard Dane posted:

I use my Core as a ripper, store, server and local player (via s/pif) and so far its working really well.  If I download a music file on my computer then I sort out the metadata, clean up file structure etc. on the computer because that's what a computer is really good at doing.  I imagine that many of the issues reported with the Core are down to trying to get it to do things that its not ideal at doing?  Anyway, just to add my ha'penny worth, so far I'm very pleased with the Core and...  the most important thing - it sounds great!

Richard, I am pleased to hear you are happy with the performance of your core.

fr myself, it is less than satisfactory, and I am only using it as intended in its simplest form.

i rip new CDs using the core and the music is stored in the music share folder.

i transferred all my original music, previously dipped by my HDX, using the core process to transfer the music, and it all went into the downloads folder, as expected.

all worked well for some weeks and then updated software to latest version, and suddenly by download folder and 60% of my music is not visible.

i don't see the as me trying to use the core outside its design intent.

as for issues reported being dealt with, that was the point of my comment on size of the support team. In spite of correct logging of the fault, there are n come from "the team", only by Phil, and these seem to be 1-2 weeks between emails, after I am asked t try something, which I do, report back, as not resolved, and then no answer again for an extended period.

meanwhile I have a loss of benefit of my music access for weeks on end with no solution.

Apologies for typos in above post

Richard Choong posted:

Richard,

How do you deal with compilation CDs?  The way the Core sorts its music doesn't appear to allow the Naim app to read artistes and songs found in a compilation CD under the Artist and Song lists. 

Richard Dane posted:

 

Richard, I generally play files as albums.  Not sure I've noticed anything awry with the few compilations I've ripped thus far.  I'll check it out sometime.  

I think this is a valid criticism: a compilation album will show the artist for each and every track as 'Various', which is useless. I've tried moving the album to the downloads folder and adding the artist for each track using Metadatics, but this is no use, as the app then displays each track as a separate album. I find the best solution is often to open the much-maligned Rovi booklet, which generally shows the track listing along with the correct artist for each one.

(As a dinosaur, I am assuming that this is relevant to the Core, as it's what I've found on my Unitiserve.) 

The Unitiserve was and still is an amazing product and I believe that when Core was announced we all assumed it would be a Unitiserve but more advanced and with better sound quality etc etc

Unfortunately right now the Core is very much a step backwards in relation to a Unitiserve and this is what is confusing so many Naim owners.

To compound problems Core doesn't work and Naim owners are again confused that 6+ months on since release it still doesn't work.

Why ? 

I own both a Unitiserve and Core but apart from checking for software updates every 2-3 weeks the Core is switched off.  My Unitiserve is used almost every day.

@Christine - I'm guessing the UnitiCore in upnp mode doesn't sound any better to you than the stock unitiserve?

Have you compared its digital out into your streamer against upnp?

are you using the unitisever stock? Or with TP/linear psus?

Adam Zielinski posted:

...[@mention:56335183628232089]

I'm simply surprised to see the level of attacks at every possible moment, mostly from forum members, who have not tested it. Even if they have, what is the point in constantly bashing a product which we are all aware needs fixing?

I cannot speak for other contributors, of course. But my main motivation for recalling the Core's most obvious deficiencies is precisely the fact that that Naim do not actually appear to be aware that the product needs to be radically improved. Statements like those issued together with the latest firmware upgrade, for instance

- Editing of Composers and Conductors will not be enabled and is not currently planned as a future update. 
- 'Artist Name' cannot be changed globally, only on a per CD basis.

strongly suggest that Naim have not even recognized that, in its current and planned form, the Core is essentially unusable for classical music collectors. We are not talking about fixing software bugs here. It's the whole software design and set of functionalities that is in different ways inconsistent and lacking.

This state of things would probably have been accepted if Naim had made very clear that they would first deliver a preliminary system aimed at reproducing the most basic functionalities of the old US, while at the same time giving users and perspective customers some indications of how they intend to exploit the new platform to finally deliver a device that meets today's expectations. Unfortunately, they have failed to do so and hence the disappointment and the never ending criticisms.

I am sure that many Core users are perfectly satisfied with their products and from these we should probably not expect very critical contributions. But those who happen to find the Core to be lacking, should try to make their criticism as clear and as precise as possible. By restraining their critique, they are not making themselves and Naim any favour. On the contrary, indulgence pushes the company further down the slippery slope.      

nbpf posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

...[@mention:56335183628232089]

I'm simply surprised to see the level of attacks at every possible moment, mostly from forum members, who have not tested it. Even if they have, what is the point in constantly bashing a product which we are all aware needs fixing?

I cannot speak for other contributors, of course. But my main motivation for recalling the Core's most obvious deficiencies is precisely the fact that that Naim do not actually appear to be aware that the product needs to be radically improved. Statements like those issued together with the latest firmware upgrade, for instance

- Editing of Composers and Conductors will not be enabled and is not currently planned as a future update. 
- 'Artist Name' cannot be changed globally, only on a per CD basis.

strongly suggest that Naim have not even recognized that, in its current and planned form, the Core is essentially unusable for classical music collectors. We are not talking about fixing software bugs here. It's the whole software design and set of functionalities that is in different ways inconsistent and lacking.

This state of things would probably have been accepted if Naim had made very clear that they would first deliver a preliminary system aimed at reproducing the most basic functionalities of the old US, while at the same time giving users and perspective customers some indications of how they intend to exploit the new platform to finally deliver a device that meets today's expectations. Unfortunately, they have failed to do so and hence the disappointment and the never ending criticisms.

I am sure that many Core users are perfectly satisfied with their products and from these we should probably not expect very critical contributions. But those who happen to find the Core to be lacking, should try to make their criticism as clear and as precise as possible. By restraining their critique, they are not making themselves and Naim any favour. On the contrary, indulgence pushes the company further down the slippery slope.      

I wish there were more forum members such as yourself.

ChrisH posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

....I'm still hopefull that eventually the Core will have the same editing features as I enjoy with the US via N-Serve app, and at that point I will consider an exchange. I get the impression from all the various threads in this forum that that point may well be some distance away. To not be able to edit meta data in the downloads folder is simply unacceptable, and a significant oversight by Naim (all in my opinion, of course!).

Tim

Timmo1341, As a Unitiserve owner myself too, meta data of files in the Downloads folder cant be edited via n-Serve / Desktop Client anyway, so this isn't something you can do today. Maybe the sentences in your post were not linked and I read it incorrectly?

My take on this point is that a PC or laptop is needed to download the download file in the first place anyway, and that is the right time to edit the metadata before copying it to the US Downloads folder. And some of the Downloads need a fair bit of fiddling, far easier to do it on a proper keyboard than on an iPad or iPhone.

If we were able to copy the download to the US Downloads folder and edit it afterwards, we would end up with a non edited version on the PC, ie. 2 different versions between the US/Core and the PC, which wouldn't be a great thing. So I would say that Im with Naim on this point.  

You are absolutely right! My mistake, I wrote 'download' when I meant to write 'music'. I edit all my downloaded files via a 3rd party editor on my Mac, using N-serve for edits to my music folder rips. My understanding is that there are issues with performing the latter functions on the Uniti Core? If not, and I am able to perform the same editing as I can do at present on the US, then I'll be buying myself a Core in the not too distant future.

Tim

I guessed so! 

I must say I've lost track a bit with all the Core threads flying around at the moment. But I'm pretty sure that all the editing functionality of the US is now also available with the Core, following the recent app update. The bit that the Core doesn't have is the Desktop Client via PC or Mac, so its App only. But otherwise the metadata editing is the same between them, at least as far as I can tell!

Timmo1341 posted:

ChrisH posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

....I'm still hopefull that eventually the Core will have the same editing features as I enjoy with the US via N-Serve app, and at that point I will consider an exchange. I get the impression from all the various threads in this forum that that point may well be some distance away. To not be able to edit meta data in the downloads folder is simply unacceptable, and a significant oversight by Naim (all in my opinion, of course!).

Tim

Timmo1341, As a Unitiserve owner myself too, meta data of files in the Downloads folder cant be edited via n-Serve / Desktop Client anyway, so this isn't something you can do today. Maybe the sentences in your post were not linked and I read it incorrectly?

My take on this point is that a PC or laptop is needed to download the download file in the first place anyway, and that is the right time to edit the metadata before copying it to the US Downloads folder. And some of the Downloads need a fair bit of fiddling, far easier to do it on a proper keyboard than on an iPad or iPhone.

If we were able to copy the download to the US Downloads folder and edit it afterwards, we would end up with a non edited version on the PC, ie. 2 different versions between the US/Core and the PC, which wouldn't be a great thing. So I would say that Im with Naim on this point.  

You are absolutely right! My mistake, I wrote 'download' when I meant to write 'music'. I edit all my downloaded files via a 3rd party editor on my Mac, using N-serve for edits to my music folder rips. My understanding is that there are issues with performing the latter functions on the Uniti Core? ...

I cannot speak from first hand experience since I do not own a Core. But it seems that the latest firmware upgrade v1.4 has corrected a number of errors in the Core's software and added metadata editing functionalities that were not available under v1.3. The latest firmware upgrade was released together with the notes:

- Editing of Composers and Conductors will not be enabled and is not currently planned as a future update.  
- The metadata editing functionality is based solely within the app, there is no desktop editing functionality.
- Only ripped CDs or CDs imported from a previous Naim server that have been ripped, can be edited.
- Music content in the Downloads Folder cannot be edited so the option will not be available.
- 'Artist Name' cannot be changed globally, only on a per CD basis.
- When a Uniti Core is updated to the firmware which includes the 'Edit Metadata' feature, if the database already includes music from a previously imported Naim collection any user edits applied on that collection will be reinstated automatically.

In my view being unable to edit the "Composer" and the "Conductor" indexes (and, more importantly, being unable to add user-specific indexes and to remove unnecessary ones) makes the system hardly usable for classical music collectors. You will have of course to make up your mind and decide by yourself what are the implications of these specifications for you.

Cbr600 posted

i rip new CDs using the core and the music is stored in the music share folder.

i transferred all my original music, previously dipped by my HDX, using the core process to transfer the music, and it all went into the downloads folder, as expected.

all worked well for some weeks and then updated software to latest version, and suddenly by download folder and 60% of my music is not visible.

 

When you import music from an HDX or US into the Core, the rips should go into the music folder in the Core and downloads into the Downloads folder. If the files from your HDX were rips made in a Naim server and they ended up in the Downloads folder in the Core, then the import didn't work properly.

i don't know how many new rips you have made into the Core, but if it isn't too many and if you still have your HDX, then I suggest you reformat the drive in the Core (using the install function in the Core) and do the import from the HDX again from scratch.

best

David

David Hendon posted:

Cbr600 posted

i rip new CDs using the core and the music is stored in the music share folder.

i transferred all my original music, previously dipped by my HDX, using the core process to transfer the music, and it all went into the downloads folder, as expected.

all worked well for some weeks and then updated software to latest version, and suddenly by download folder and 60% of my music is not visible.

 

When you import music from an HDX or US into the Core, the rips should go into the music folder in the Core and downloads into the Downloads folder. If the files from your HDX were rips made in a Naim server and they ended up in the Downloads folder in the Core, then the import didn't work properly.

i don't know how many new rips you have made into the Core, but if it isn't too many and if you still have your HDX, then I suggest you reformat the drive in the Core (using the install function in the Core) and do the import from the HDX again from scratch.

best

David

if i had this possibility, i would have named you " uniticore specialist ". It is not ironic, your advices on technical problems about using the core are always clear and welcome. You can usefully second Phill Harris . 

That's very kind but not I think quite justified!  Anyway I think there are

quite a few of us who do always try to help forum members with a problem.....

but thank you anyway!

best

David

David Hendon posted:

Cbr600 posted

i rip new CDs using the core and the music is stored in the music share folder.

i transferred all my original music, previously dipped by my HDX, using the core process to transfer the music, and it all went into the downloads folder, as expected.

all worked well for some weeks and then updated software to latest version, and suddenly by download folder and 60% of my music is not visible.

 

When you import music from an HDX or US into the Core, the rips should go into the music folder in the Core and downloads into the Downloads folder. If the files from your HDX were rips made in a Naim server and they ended up in the Downloads folder in the Core, then the import didn't work properly.

i don't know how many new rips you have made into the Core, but if it isn't too many and if you still have your HDX, then I suggest you reformat the drive in the Core (using the install function in the Core) and do the import from the HDX again from scratch.

best

David

Thanks for suggestion David, but when issue first raised with customer support, they advise hat only rips directly made in core will go into the music folder, all other rips, including those made on HDX actually go into the download folder.

this is exactly where they went initially, and were easily accessed for some weeks, until the download folder disappeared.

your suggestion on reformatting the core drive was also done , again as suggested by customer support , but this made no difference, the core still does not show a download folder.

i have tried a number of things as requested by Phil, including using a sub stick to format and put music onto, but again no sign if a download folder. This was done at customer support request 2 weeks ago now, and reported back, since which I get no response from them, irrespective of how many emails I send them

Well I have to say that you were wrongly advised by Naim technical support because rips made by a Naim server do in fact get imported into the Core music folder, not downloads. I know this for a fact, although in my case it's a US rather than an HDX. And I have discussed it off-line extensively with Naim in the context of metadata editing in the Core via the app. You cannot edit the downloads folder via the app, as had been discussed frequently in the forum. But you certainly can edit imports from a Naim server.

But not having a downloads folder at all in the Core is odd. I think you probably should chase Naim support to reply to your earlier email giving them the results of tests that they asked you for.

I could suggest numerous other things, but it's better that I don't interfere if Naim is on the case.

best

David

David, before my HDX went belly-up, I've made a copy of my music to a QNAP NAS. In the last couple of months, I've made some minor changes to the metadata using MP3Tag. If I would get a Uniti Core, how do I transfer my music? Would it be best to copy everything to the download folder? Or let the Core descide??