552 Conundrum - A lovely day out.....

Posted by: andysonvolt on 01 June 2017

HiFi Day Out

Thanks to Paul at HiFi Lounge (BIggleswade), I finally had my chance to get a view on the “552 conundrum,” which is, “Is a £20k Pre-Amp just plain stupid?” For me it would be a £13k+ upgrade if I traded in my 252/SC in part exchange.

I selected a list of tunes lasting about an hour. Some tunes were the usual suspects (Kevin Eubanks, Phil Beer, Keith Jarrett, Joni) and some new (Jason Isbell, Stuart McCallam). I try to get a mix of female vocal, male vocal, complex jazz, simple jazz, rock, acoustic folk, electronic etc.

First a run through at home before I left.

System at home – Nap 300 (non-dr), 252/SC (non-dr), Linn Klimax DS/1, Neat XL6s, Chord Sarum and Linn Cabling, Linn’s room neutralizing Space Optimization deployed

I have to admit I am still at the stage where I think “that’s is very good” whenever I take the trouble to listen attentively at home. Confusing jazz is resolved, the bass is fab and the vocal is upfront and crystal clear. Perhaps it’s “as good as you can expect to get in this particular room” I often tell myself.

Off to HiFi Lounge then…..

Paul at HiFi lounge has just built a dedicated Naim listening room. There is some intervention to get the best out of the kit by dampening panels on the walls and ceiling. It is a converted barn so I think it would be “boomy” without at least some of that.

First System – Aurender/Chord Dave, 252/SC, 300 and Wilson Yvette speakers. (Speakers a bit over the top at £30k!! but kept the same for all 3 comparisons). Hifi Lounge are not a Linn dealer so the streamer combo was the nearest in money terms to compare. I am still not a fan of the Naim NDS so I asked not to have that. In theory it was the nearest to my home system. After listening through at varying volumes I was a little underwhelmed at some specifics; Vocals sounded like the singer might be a little way off the mic. Complex jazz did not seem to have the resolution of home and bass was certainly less of a presence (although that could be speaker difference or the room over-damped). It was however, excellent on all instrumental aspects, acoustic guitar being a highlight.

Second System – swap 252 for a 552 – the target…….

Wow – all above deficiencies had gone, with the exception of the bass (this made me think it probably was a room thing). The bass was however better defined, just not as powerful as I like. It was that “I got to get me one of those” upgrade moments. The tracks seemed to be slower and more resolved; relaxed and complete. Truly wonderful if I am honest, all the good things of the first system and all the annoying things resolved. At £13k it ought to be good though. I found myself wanting to let tracks finish, really enjoying them complete without the usual temptation of playlist flicking.

Third System – Swap 300 for a 500 (another net £13k upgrade). A quick tot up and suddenly I was listening to a £100k system! If you take into account the Fraim and cables. Not as staggering as the 552 change, but of course the usual “….and breath” feeling you get with adding a bigger power amp. It’s like having a shower in a wide walk-in wet room as opposed to a cramped area with a damp shower curtain to avoid. I believe an appropriate term is “bigger soundstage”. Taking into account that it was the 4^th time I had listened to the same material that day it was still a pure pleasure. In terms of “bang for buck” certainly not worth as much as the 552 upgrade though.

Conclusions….

Need to get my 300 DRd for sure. I don’t think I would ever go to a 500, the 300 is pretty good.

552 – want one! Can I justify £13k of hard earned pennies? No. On the other hand, as a retirement present or a lottery win, I’d have one like a shot.

Posted on: 01 June 2017 by MDS

Nice write-up. I suspect many on here would recognise your impressions. The 552DR is pretty special. I moved to one from a 282/SCDR and over a year later I'm still hearing stuff that makes me pause and smile. The 552 just seems to keep giving. £13k is a lot, of course, but if you can afford it I suspect the 552 will give you very many years of pleasure long after you've forgotten about the outlay.

Posted on: 01 June 2017 by The Strat (Fender)

£20k for a pre-amp is just ridiculous.

So is McLaren super car but which would have the greater utility. I'd have a 552/500 tomorrow.

Posted on: 01 June 2017 by Harry

Buying a 552 is not a sensible decision by any measure. So, if the finances will tolerate it, just put common sense to one side and do as you see fit.

I'm now off to listen to some music played through my totally pointless 552.

Bye.

Posted on: 01 June 2017 by Bert Schurink

Thanks good write up. Yes the 552 is something special, while I expect 552 owners would have the same feeling when listening to the statement pre-amp. While the 300 is great on longer listening it's easy to understand why the 500 is also in a special league.....

Have fun in your decision process.

Posted on: 01 June 2017 by Allante93

Harry posted:
Buying a 552 is not a sensible decision by any measure. So, if the finances will tolerate it, just put common sense to one side and do as you see fit.
I'm now off to listen to some music played through my totally pointless 552.
Bye.

I love it! LOL..

Posted on: 02 June 2017 by Ponty

Interesting to read of your experiences as I have exactly the same amp / speaker set up as yourself. Did you directly compare the 300 and 300DR to reach the conclusion to DR your 300? Just curious to understand the differences. The issue (or rather lack of) I have is that every time I listen to my system, I think the amp and speakers work so wonderfully well together that I have no desire to tinker with it.

Posted on: 02 June 2017 by analogmusic

nice write up, but what cables was the dealer using?

Posted on: 02 June 2017 by Bodger

Nice write up and much of it similar to my own experiences. I had to smile when you noted that tracks seemed slower. I think there was a whole thread on this phenomenon last year. When I got my 552, I actually got my metronome out to check some tracks.

If you are not prepared to feel pain and guilt in equal measure with the upgrade, you can find 552's second hand every now and again to lessen the pain. The pleasure is identical so maybe do some searching.

Dave

Posted on: 02 June 2017 by kevin J Carden

Bodger posted:
Nice write up and much of it similar to my own experiences. I had to smile when you noted that tracks seemed slower. I think there was a whole thread on this phenomenon last year. When I got my 552, I actually got my metronome out to check some tracks.
If you are not prepared to feel pain and guilt in equal measure with the upgrade, you can find 552's second hand every now and again to lessen the pain. The pleasure is identical so maybe do some searching.
Dave

I second the second hand idea, or even a dealer ex-dem model. The latter can sometimes be had for up to a 30% discount from list if they've been in stock for a year or more. I don't know how many 552's get sold per year, but guess it's not many. Indulgent, certainly. Fabulous, also certainly.

Posted on: 02 June 2017 by The Strat (Fender)

Debate over the virtues or otherwise of high end audio equipment in the coffee bar at work today - someone was fishing to get at the value of my system to which they didn't get a response.

But as someone pointed out buy a quality audio system and your running costs are negligible and the entertainment is almost infinite. Buy say a yacht - servicing, dry docking etc etc.

Posted on: 02 June 2017 by Drewy

The dealer in question is advertising an ex display 552. Are you considering this or a new one?

Posted on: 02 June 2017 by Eoink

My late wife and I used to have a conversation based on cost per hour, as someone who loved her Bose Wave she wasn't convinced by the Mana and Sound Org racks. Based on my normal listening from the time I bought my Nait and last year, I reckon I spent about £1/hour listening seriously to music. Compared to almost any other hobby, that's cheap,.

Posted on: 02 June 2017 by yeti42

You still have to factor in servicing for a Naim system even if you never upgrade again.

Also £70,000 for a 500 based system will need a lot of use to make it economical and by the time you can afford it there may not be that long left, on the other hand there may not be that long left.

Posted on: 02 June 2017 by Eoink

I figured in the servicing, a grand a decade isn't a lot per hour if you listen to enough music to make it worth having a high end system. I was lucky, I bought my 135s 2nd hand for £1750 in 1989 in my mid20s, so have amortised them over a long period.

Posted on: 02 June 2017 by lyndon

We have to remember that for all of us here this is our hobby, also Linn Naim and a few cable companies have given us definitive ladders to climb, the ex dem & S/H market makes that more attainable for more of us

to pretty much the rest of society a Hi-Fi will have a similar value as a microwave or less

we all have different ways of spending our hard earned, 25 years ago my mum spent £400 for a Yorkshire stone to put in the garden, in all that time that thing hasn't done anything or gone anywhere and I'm still puzzled but then she wouldn't pay £2000 for a piece of wire !!

in conclusion there's only one thing you can do with money - and that's spend it

lyndon

Posted on: 02 June 2017 by kevin J Carden

Eoink posted:
I figured in the servicing, a grand a decade isn't a lot per hour if you listen to enough music to make it worth having a high end system. I was lucky, I bought my 135s 2nd hand for £1750 in 1989 in my mid20s, so have amortised them over a long period.

This a good approach to owning a system I reckon. In opting to trade my 52/SC for a 552 and servicing/DRing my 500 I allowed for maybe 15 years or 750 weeks of use. It cost me a net 15k, so £20 a week. I think that's worth it for the increased involvement and enjoyment and in a strange way, good value.

Then I tried to backtest on what I've spent on Hi Fi over the past 35 years or so, prior to these upgrades. I couldn't reach an accurate figure, so I'm going to overestimate £100k (spent, not current prices) . Roughly, £55 a week for hardware. A lot of cash for sure, but I'd definitely have no regrets given the pleasure it's given me. Yacht, plane and Fast Car addictions are surely more costly. My Hi Fi has benn great value in my book.

Posted on: 03 June 2017 by andysonvolt

Ponty posted:
Interesting to read of your experiences as I have exactly the same amp / speaker set up as yourself. Did you directly compare the 300 and 300DR to reach the conclusion to DR your 300? Just curious to understand the differences. The issue (or rather lack of) I have is that every time I listen to my system, I think the amp and speakers work so wonderfully well together that I have no desire to tinker with it.

I did a compare of a 250 and a 250 DR but not 300. On the strength of that I am going to do it.

Posted on: 03 June 2017 by andysonvolt

analogmusic posted:
nice write up, but what cables was the dealer using?

They looked to be mostly Chord all round - and of course full Fraim.

Posted on: 03 June 2017 by andysonvolt

Drewy posted:
The dealer in question is advertising an ex display 552. Are you considering this or a new one?

It seems Paul operates a model where all demo models are for sale. So the current 552 I listened to is actually only weeks old. If he sells it he replaces it - that happened to the last one. I think if I was going to buy one I would buy his particular demo one at the time as its run in and cheaper than new, but otherwise "new"

Posted on: 03 June 2017 by Drewy

andysonvolt posted:
Drewy posted:
The dealer in question is advertising an ex display 552. Are you considering this or a new one?
It seems Paul operates a model where all demo models are for sale. So the current 552 I listened to is actually only weeks old. If he sells it he replaces it - that happened to the last one. I think if I was going to buy one I would buy his particular demo one at the time as its run in and cheaper than new, but otherwise "new"

I'd buy it. I nearly bought one off him ex demo but he's hours away. I discussed it with my local dealer and luckily he did me a good deal on a new one which I was really relieved about.

I've had mine about 3 months and I feel it's getting to sound as good as the very well used demo one that my dealer borrowed from Naim.

Posted on: 03 June 2017 by AndrewG

I suspect it might still cost you more than £13k to trade up? £7k for your 252/Supercap (non-DR) seems to be generous, or perhaps just optimistic? Regardless, if you want it and can afford it, then life is too short not to go for it!

Posted on: 03 June 2017 by Drewy

AndrewG posted:
I suspect it might still cost you more than £13k to trade up? £7k for your 252/Supercap (non-DR) seems to be generous, or perhaps just optimistic? Regardless, if you want it and can afford it, then life is too short not to go for it!

He's looking at the demo one and if it's the price I think it is then he's probably right quoting 13k