Speakers Audition 2017 - My first in 20 years

Posted by: SongStream on 02 June 2017

..or thereabouts. A friend and I entered the Signals 'church' for the first time today, and thrashed some speakers. Thanks to the wonderful chaps at Signals for putting up with the incredible (but highly musical) din we were making for 5 hours.


Using laptop and Qobuz sublime, we hooked up to an SN2, a Chord 2 Qute, and first off some Russell K 100s. These were possibly a little overwhelmed by the room size. They were highly revealing, and easy to listen to, but I didn't find them particularly engaging. Not the punchiest of sounds, and a little bass light in that environment, but a reasonable starting point. In a smaller room I suspect they would have been much more attention grabbing


We then moved on to the Focal 926s that I had become rather curious about. We both found these very impressive and easy to listen to, despite the obviously apparent huge scale of the sound they produce. Animals they are, but controlled, focused, and really fast. I was particularly surprised at the way they maintained real bite in the high frequencies, but without irritating or dominating proceedings. Voices and individual instruments of all kinds were really there, with fantastic solid presence, and sounded not necessarily super natural, but full bodied and immersive. Everything seemed to have its own space, and no matter how complex things got, they never seemed to blur anything together, maintaining real insight and resolution throughout everything we played. Refined? Yeah, I think they are, kind of. Subtle? Hmm, no, not really, but exciting and enjoyable. Great party speakers I would think, but certainly a lot more than that too, and if you have enough to room to properly accommodate them (sonically as much as physically), I think they would be great. Despite my room being border line too small, it is roughly the same volume as the room we were demoing in, a home demo of the 926s was beginning to become a must. I feared they would be over powering, but prepared to take the time to find out. Really impressed by them, but in the back of my mind was the fear they would be too much for my room.


Next we tried some PMC Twent5.23s. These were notably brighter, not offensively so over a short listen, but tonally I didn't really like them from the start. They also seemed laid back and a bit slow by comparison. Flat is another word that comes to mind. Separation and harmonics didn't seem to be anything to challenge the Focals either. After 4 or 5 different tracks, we were both a bit 'they're ok, but nah!' about them.


The Focals came back in for a while and again impressed, but still sounding like they could ultimately do with more room.


Deciding it would be best to home demo the Focals as they offered much of what I wanted, there was just the question of room compatibility, I was thinking of giving the guys at Signals a break when they suggested, if we could stand any more listening (which we easily could), try the Kudo X3s. In they came and........we both liked them straight away. I personally really really liked them. There was something just right about them. They had body, a big sound, though less in your face than the focals, and remarkable musical insight and resolution. As with the Focals, individual voices and instruments had solid presence and their own space, but in a small-ish room, it all seemed much more manageable and comfortable. They were agile and punchy, and yet still refined, which gives them a +1 vs the Focals. The bass depth was impressive too, seeming to reach lower than anything else we had heard in the demo. They sounded natural and had me forgetting about the idea that I was supposed to be judging speakers, and just listening to music. While the Focals impressed with their talents, the Kudos X3s did not, instead it was the music that impressed, and that's probably the biggest compliment I've given in this rambling write-up. They somehow did not cover-up imperfections in a recording to the same degree as the mighty Focals, but didn't scream, shout, and point at them either. It all seemed like a really good match for my own tastes, the room, the equipment, and the type of music I typically listen to. Therefore, these became the speakers i will home demo first. And if they work as they did in the demo today, they'll probably be the ones to stay.

Posted on: 02 June 2017 by thebigfredc

Sounds like you had a fun afternoon and after a 20 year gap I should think you were due it.

The Signals guys are very good.

I find speakers are the toughest to do a meaningful demo on no doubt as they vary so much.

Ray

Posted on: 02 June 2017 by Arnsider

I have X2's.....demo at home, then get your wallet out...

Posted on: 02 June 2017 by badlands

Give credit where credit is due for making those Focal's sound soo good, I think a little should go to the SN2.

Posted on: 02 June 2017 by leni v

What are your current speakers?

Posted on: 02 June 2017 by ChrisH

Nice write up, sounds like you had a fun day. Don't forget to update us once you have your home demo though!

Posted on: 03 June 2017 by Bert Schurink

Nice write up. To me it looks that you have made the right choice, so now just enjoy....

Posted on: 03 June 2017 by SongStream
thebigfredc posted:

Sounds like you had a fun afternoon and after a 20 year gap I should think you were due it.

The Signals guys are very good.

I find speakers are the toughest to do a meaningful demo on no doubt as they vary so much.

Ray

Yes, definitely fun was had, and we were very well looked after by the guys at Signals.  I agree that getting speakers right is tough.  Even the best speakers in a demo, can sound awful in a different environment.  It's tricky stuff.

Posted on: 03 June 2017 by SongStream
badlands posted:

Give credit where credit is due for making those Focal's sound soo good, I think a little should go to the SN2.

Yes, that probably is worth a mention.  The way the SN2 grabbed hold of those Focals, which as I understand it can be a difficult load for an amp, despite the nominal 8ohm thingy, was all highly impressive.  There was no sign of the SN2 struggling, and we did push it, man those speakers can deliver some serious sofa shaking volume, and seemingly with no effort at all on the end of an SN2.  I think the 2qute perhaps deserves some credit too.  It was the first time I'd heard a hugo-type DAC, and it did a really good job.  The system didn't seem to suit the PMCs, but with the weightier sounding speakers the 2qute and SN2 seemed to get on pretty well.  I found you had to be careful with the volume control though, 2qute can be 2loud with the dial where I would normally put it, although speakers could obviously affect this too.

 

 

Posted on: 03 June 2017 by SongStream
leni v posted:

What are your current speakers?

I've been running Proac D18s for about a year, and just can't get along with them.  I hear talent in some areas, but whether its the room, system, or my ears, they don't work for me.  You could ask why did I but them then?  Basically, they were a popular auction site punt gone wrong.

Posted on: 03 June 2017 by SongStream

Thanks for the comments everyone.  I'll keep you updated as things progress.  Really looking forward to having some quality time with those Kudos X3s.  ;-)  

Posted on: 03 June 2017 by Penarth Blues

Nice description of the 926's sound. I hope you enjoy whichever speaker you end up with but having had the 926's for 3.5 years I'm still very happy with their sound, particularly their ability to really come alive at higher levels. 

Posted on: 03 June 2017 by SongStream
Penarth Blues posted:

Nice description of the 926's sound. I hope you enjoy whichever speaker you end up with but having had the 926's for 3.5 years I'm still very happy with their sound, particularly their ability to really come alive at higher levels. 

I can see why you like them.  If my room was slightly bigger, they would be here now on demo I think......subject to also having a bigger car to bring them home.  It is nice to hear a speaker with real guts at slightly (or even completely) silly volume levels. ;-)  No substitute for cubic capacity perhaps.  

Posted on: 03 June 2017 by Penarth Blues
SongStream posted:
Penarth Blues posted:

Nice description of the 926's sound. I hope you enjoy whichever speaker you end up with but having had the 926's for 3.5 years I'm still very happy with their sound, particularly their ability to really come alive at higher levels. 

I can see why you like them.  If my room was slightly bigger, they would be here now on demo I think......subject to also having a bigger car to bring them home.  It is nice to hear a speaker with real guts at slightly (or even completely) silly volume levels. ;-)  No substitute for cubic capacity perhaps.  

Just an observation that for most of the time I use my speakers they are at relatively low volume or for listening to the TV. They also excel at this as they still sound 'alive' at low volume, not dead like others I've heard. 

Not sure how you intend to use your stereo but I'm going to guess it's rarely going to be turned up to proper listening volumes once past the initial excitement, so make sure you listen at your 'normal' volumes too.

I guess a key choice is also whether you want that 'guts' to your music or whether you are happy to do without the bass. Either way I hope the new speakers give you what you're looking for :-)

Posted on: 03 June 2017 by SongStream
Penarth Blues posted:
SongStream posted:
Penarth Blues posted:

Nice description of the 926's sound. I hope you enjoy whichever speaker you end up with but having had the 926's for 3.5 years I'm still very happy with their sound, particularly their ability to really come alive at higher levels. 

I can see why you like them.  If my room was slightly bigger, they would be here now on demo I think......subject to also having a bigger car to bring them home.  It is nice to hear a speaker with real guts at slightly (or even completely) silly volume levels. ;-)  No substitute for cubic capacity perhaps.  

Just an observation that for most of the time I use my speakers they are at relatively low volume or for listening to the TV. They also excel at this as they still sound 'alive' at low volume, not dead like others I've heard. 

Not sure how you intend to use your stereo but I'm going to guess it's rarely going to be turned up to proper listening volumes once past the initial excitement, so make sure you listen at your 'normal' volumes too.

I guess a key choice is also whether you want that 'guts' to your music or whether you are happy to do without the bass. Either way I hope the new speakers give you what you're looking for :-)

Thanks.  Likewise I use the stereo for everything, so performance with TV and film is a consideration, but I suppose my priority is they perform best with music when I sit down for real session.  The speakers I demo will be well used for all duties during their time in the house.  While I rarely turn the volume to lets call it party level, I do tend be enthusiastic with listening generally.  It's hard to know what normal is compared to anyone else, but I get the impression I probably listen regularly at a higher volume than many, but rarely at the absolute maximum that I think is still enjoyable when in the right mood.  It's fun when demoing a speaker to take something like Nirvana's Lithium and turn it right up to party / rock concert level (which we did), but as you say I'm not going to do that very often, and for the most part we demoed at the levels I would typically listen at, so pretty loud, but not silly.  Again, my use of the words 'silly' or 'pretty' in relation to loudness means precisely nothing to anyone except me.  Damn!

Posted on: 04 June 2017 by Penarth Blues

Just in case you haven't seen this previous thread, it looks like you might want to try the Neat's too:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...dos-vs-focal-vs-neat

Posted on: 06 June 2017 by SongStream
Penarth Blues posted:

Just in case you haven't seen this previous thread, it looks like you might want to try the Neat's too:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...dos-vs-focal-vs-neat

Thanks for the link.  Neat X1s were one of the first speaker to go my want-to-hear list, after being recommended by a couple of other forum members.  I had mentioned them to Signals on the phone, but in the end we ran out of time before getting to them.  What this chap says seems very similar to my own findings.  Would have been perfect if the PMC 25.23s had featured in this review too for some more perspective, based on everything else said, I'd be surprised if they impressed.  The more I think about it, the less the PMC experience makes sense.  They're over £1k more expensive than the Focals for example, but I found them pretty awful to be honest.  I know tastes vary, as does a speaker's performance with different kit, but if auditioned together with Naim kit, I find it hard to imagine anyone choosing the PMCs over either the Focal 926s, or Kudos X3s.  

Posted on: 06 June 2017 by Stephen Tate

+1 for Neat acoustic Motive SX1, at least give them a listen just to be sure.

I have recently swapped out a pair of Naim Credos for a pair of Neat acoustic Motive SX2 speakers with no regrets whatsoever. Utterly charming speakers, then again I would say that, but seriously, I would not discount the SX1s if the SX2s are anything to go by.

 

 

Posted on: 06 June 2017 by Timo
Stephen Tate posted:

+1 for Neat acoustic Motive SX1, at least give them a listen just to be sure.

I have recently swapped out a pair of Naim Credos for a pair of Neat acoustic Motive SX2 speakers with no regrets whatsoever. Utterly charming speakers, then again I would say that, but seriously, I would not discount the SX1s if the SX2s are anything to go by.

+1  I also feel that the SX1 should be auditioned when looking for new speakers in this segment of the market. Maybe have a read of Andrew Everard's review for Gramophone. If my recollection is correct, he used a Supernait 2.

Posted on: 06 June 2017 by SongStream

Timo / Stephen - I am hoping to return to Signals later in the week to collect the Kudos X3s for a home demo, it might  be possible to give the Neats Motive SX1's a listen then.  Would be good to know how they suit should the X3s not work out.  Out of curiosity, have either of you heard the X2 or X3 from the Kudos range?  

Posted on: 06 June 2017 by hungryhalibut

Be careful with the big Motive. The original Motive 1 was a bass monster and it was generally considered that the 2 was better. 

Posted on: 06 June 2017 by Timo
SongStream posted:

Timo / Stephen - I am hoping to return to Signals later in the week to collect the Kudos X3s for a home demo, it might  be possible to give the Neats Motive SX1's a listen then.  Would be good to know how they suit should the X3s not work out.  Out of curiosity, have either of you heard the X2 or X3 from the Kudos range?  

Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to listen to the X2 or X3 -- no dealer in reasonable proximity. But I believe to have read that Neat and Kudos are similar, and Naim is also used for voicing by Neat.

Posted on: 06 June 2017 by Stephen Tate

I did have a side by side demo (albeit quick one) with Kudos X2 and Neat SX2 at my local retailer recently. I have not heard the kudos X3s so i can't comment on those.

Upon first listen (first tracks), I actually preferred the kudos X2s over the SX2s. I found the Kudos X2 speakers were certainly brighter if a little rougher in the treble department but also more detailed at the same time. However, after a few tracks in with both makes of speaker my foot ended up tapping more so with the Neat's. The Motive SX2s for me are more coherent than the Kudos X2 with a sweeter tone and a 'fruitier' bass.  On the same token i could also quite clearly hear why some may prefer the Kudos X2s and I could live with either in all honesty but in the end my heart was with the Neat Motive SX2, i'm now over a month in with them and I could not be happier

Both speakers were driven from a SN2 at the dealer.

Posted on: 06 June 2017 by Stephen Tate

Hi Songstream,

I forgot to mention to say good luck with your home demo with the Kudos X3s, for all I/we know these are in a different league altogether!!

I'm just merely passing comment with the Neat's as you had them in your sights originally but never got around to hearing them.