250dr to 300 none dr

Nice System!

Well, you know it's coming:

What don't you like about the 250DR?

Do you think that additional 10 watts will really solve your issues?

Have you considered an XPSDR, or better yet, an 555PSDR?

Naim Audio Control:

Can the 272 control a Statement?

Can the 272 Control a 500?

Enjoy your Music the Why!

I'm quite sure others will tune it at help you out!

That's what nice about the Forum!

Individuals who have hands on experience, who have gone the same course, and kind enough to share their experiences.

Allante93!

Personally I would look at the source and preamp first. Either add an XPS to the 272 or swap it for separates such as NDX and preamp, 282, 252, 82 or 52.

All I would say is be careful and don't make assumptions before auditioning! I was shocked to find that a 300DR made my music almost unlistenable to when demoing at home. Like many others I believed the reviews and hype and in the upgrade ladder, but the reality for me was that the 250DR sounds wonderful in my lounge (with 272, 555PS & ProAc K6s), the 300DR does not. 'Better' is not always best!!

Tim

Can't comment on going from a 250dr to a 300 but I see you would be looking to carry out a dr upgrade next year I have recently upgraded from a 250dr to a 300dr and the 300dr considerable better but obviously this is dependent of the rest of the system and room etc.

Before you consider this upgrade I would suggest you demo a XPSdr power supply on your 272 this takes the 272 to a different level and would reap the full potential of the 300 upgrade.

I'd second that. You really should hear what the XPS DR adds to the 272 before going down the 300 path. In time that may be a sensible thing to try but I'd definitely recommend getting the source upgraded and seeing how much that improves your 272 / 250DR system.

Having owned a 300 and a 250DR, I wouldn't bother swapping. In time, a 300DR may be worthwhile, but the first thing to do, as others have said, is to add an XPSDR to your 272. It completely transforms it. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Having owned a 300 and a 250DR, I wouldn't bother swapping. In time, a 300DR may be worthwhile, but the first thing to do, as others have said, is to add an XPSDR to your 272. It completely transforms it. 

Likewise. The 250DR is a new breed and easily holds its own against the older 300 ime.

G

Thanks for all the replys and great answers, much appreciated 

will try the xps upgrade 1st 

And when Nigel says the XPS DR transforms the 272 don't underestimate it. When I removed my XPS2 from the 272 to have it DR'd (so not even in DR guise at that point) it rendered my 272 pretty ordinary to my ears, to the extent that I didn't particularly want to listen to it. With the XPS DR installed it is utterly compelling. 

Wow. Really can't wait to hear the XPSDR on my 272. I've been having a listen this morning and it sounds fantastic for a 3 week old 'naked' machine. 

Finkfan posted:

Wow. Really can't wait to hear the XPSDR on my 272. I've been having a listen this morning and it sounds fantastic for a 3 week old 'naked' machine. 

If the comments above imply that the bare 272 sounds bad, that would be a little bit misleading. It's all relative, and an XPS is not cheap. I find that the way Naim price their boxes is quite an accurate reflection of their relative performance.

No. 272 bare is a fantastic machine. All I'm saying is that the XPS DR adds so much more.

steven2907 posted:

Thanks for all the replys and great answers, much appreciated 

 

will try the xps upgrade 1st 

Now Steven, don't leap to quick, I'm sure there are other experience members, who might suggest an pre-loved 555PS!

Patience is Key!

I was once in your position seeking Advice from the Forum, I took their advice, well respected Members, hands on experience, same gear I was contemplating:

282>HCDR>250.2 well balanced System, Guest what, those same Respected, Hands on Experience Members, have moved on to better, and higher Territory.

Point being, always consider an end game!

But as you have pointed out, that bare 272 ain't Bad!

Take your time and utilize the Benefits you Guys, across the pond have!

Demo, Demo, and Demo again, then hit the second hand Market. Afterwards, buy some posh Cables from that nice Dealer, that done all that Demoing! LOL...

PS>272>Sarum T, SL, Vertere, >250DR>SL2s

I think you can live with that, but never mind me, I don't have any hands on Experience!

Enjoy your Music, The Why!

Allante93!

There are a few pre loved 555ps non DR about at the moment for less than a new XPSDR. I'm not sure what the former would add to the 272 but I fear it may be too much for my small space, but who knows...

Well, I do have experience of it and am sitting listening now while beta testing firmware. I can confidently say that the XPSDR is a great upgrade. I've not tried a 555PS, which might be better. All I recommended is that it makes more sense to add an XPS than to swap a 250DR for a 300. 

I thought about a 555 non DR instead of an XPSDR, and chose the latter because it just seemed more appropriate. The 272 was introduced while the DR supplies were being made, so it made sense that they go perfectly together. If we get a big win on the premium bonds it would be nice to investigate a 555DR but in no way do I feel there's anything lacking. There's always going to be something better out there, but so what? It's good to get what feels right. I didn't bother to listen to the 272 or 250, or the XPS when I got that a few months later. I got it because it seemed to be meant to go together, and it fitted the budget. 

I am aware the XPS DR is a power supply but did not expect it to be costlier than the NAP 250 DR. Just checked the price and it's £3,820. If the Hicap DR at a fraction of the cost sounds great with the NAC 282, I bet the XPS DR will work wonders with the NAC 272 as suggested by most who have tried.

Yeah when you see inside those boxes the 250DR is a bargain! 

Timmo1341 posted:

All I would say is be careful and don't make assumptions before auditioning! I was shocked to find that a 300DR made my music almost unlistenable to when demoing at home. Like many others I believed the reviews and hype and in the upgrade ladder, but the reality for me was that the 250DR sounds wonderful in my lounge (with 272, 555PS & ProAc K6s), the 300DR does not. 'Better' is not always best!!

Tim

Trying the NAP 300 DR may be a blessing in disguise for you. You have also saved yourself an extra shelf (separate power supply for the NAP 300) apart from being able to enjoy the superior sound quality of the NAP 250 DR.

ryder. posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

All I would say is be careful and don't make assumptions before auditioning! I was shocked to find that a 300DR made my music almost unlistenable to when demoing at home. Like many others I believed the reviews and hype and in the upgrade ladder, but the reality for me was that the 250DR sounds wonderful in my lounge (with 272, 555PS & ProAc K6s), the 300DR does not. 'Better' is not always best!!

Tim

Trying the NAP 300 DR may be a blessing in disguise for you. You have also saved yourself an extra shelf (separate power supply for the NAP 300) apart from being able to enjoy the superior sound quality of the NAP 250 DR.

Absolutely. Cost, space, shelving etc. notwithstanding, the system with the 300DR sounded awful! My original SuperUniti sounded better through the K6s than the seperate! Bearing in mind the demo at the dealer with the 300 sounded great, just imagine my despair had I gone ahead and purchased on that basis!! 

The purpose of my original post was not to compare the two amps in terms of 'quality', simply to point out that the supposedly superior, all other things being equal, product simply did not sound anywhere near as good in my listening room as the cheaper, 'lesser' product. Likewise the synergy between the 272 and the 555DR, in my circumstances, outplayed, by a considerable margin, the XPS DR, about which others wax lyrical.Never generalise or assume, or rely upon the opinions of others in place of home auditions - you may get lucky, but as my experience demonstrates, you may live to regret it.

What my ears think is of no value to you. Regardless of if you intend to audition or not, you can't possibly listen through other people's; ears. Only you can possibly know what is right for you. It could be that you might dislike both. 

Having established that, I can share what my ears think because I have been able to compare the 300 to the 250DR, although not back to back in one session. For me, the 300 wins by a mile. It's a gateway to beautiful music as opposed to a demonstration of good HiFi. I had hoped the 250DR would improve on the presentation of the 250 but alas not. Or perhaps not alas. The 250 has a loyal following and is a legend in its own time. Naim would be foolish to fundamentally change a signature loved by so many (if not all of us).

For what that's worth.

ryder. posted:

I am aware the XPS DR is a power supply but did not expect it to be costlier than the NAP 250 DR. Just checked the price and it's £3,820.

[If the Hicap DR at a fraction of the cost sounds great with the NAC 282]

, I bet the XPS DR will work wonders with the NAC 272 as suggested by most who have tried.

Yes ryder, that was the advice I took from the Forum. However, as HH has pointed out sometimes components are meant to go together.

That's when it's a good idea, to lend an ear to the Designer, Naim Audio.

You know, it might be a reason, the rear of the 282 was designed to accept the SC!

"Step up from the NAC 202 and you arrive at the outstanding NAC 282, which includes the NAPSC power supply unit optionally available on its sibling. The NAPSC independently powers the NAC 282’s digital and control circuits, leaving its audio circuits to either the power supply of a NAC 155 XS or NAP 200 power amplifier, or to one of our standalone FlatCap XS, HiCap or SuperCap power supplies. The result is even greater transparency and superior musicality plus, of course, all the flexibility you’d expect from one of our preamplifiers."

Surely the intentions was you can squeeze a little more out of an 282, with an HC, than a Flat Cap.

However, if you want a little bit more, by all means try our SC.

For those who need a little bit more, I'm sorry, you will have to upgrade to our 252/SC.......you get the idea 552!

Ok, why did I listen to the Forum?

A. Unbelievable Deal on an HCDR, practically brand new.

B. End game, Down the road, being an Active Fan the SC is inevitable.

At that point, I can trust my own ears within my own Hi Fi Domain!

So yes, I agree with Ryder and HH, and Naim!

A Balanced System:

XPSDR>272>250DR

SCDR>282>250DR/300DR

SCDR>252>300DR

555DR>552>500DR

That's why the 282 is so popular, Flexibility!

JMHO!

Allante93!

MangoMonkey posted:

I have both the 300 (Non-DR) and the 250DR. Suffice it to say that I'm not planning on swapping the 300 out for a 250DR...

I'm running a NDS:552/300 and 272/xps/250. All DR  except the 300.

I know that 250DR, is on your second System, how does it compare to the 250.2?

BTW, your 2012 (250.2) is still hanging in there!

Allante93!

PS. Eric and the gang @ Audio Plus done an Excellent job on my Cdx2.

Harry posted:

What my ears think is of no value to you. Regardless of if you intend to audition or not, you can't possibly listen through other people's; ears. Only you can possibly know what is right for you. It could be that you might dislike both. 

Having established that, I can share what my ears think because I have been able to compare the 300 to the 250DR, although not back to back in one session. For me, the 300 wins by a mile. It's a gateway to beautiful music as opposed to a demonstration of good HiFi. I had hoped the 250DR would improve on the presentation of the 250 but alas not. Or perhaps not alas. The 250 has a loyal following and is a legend in its own time. Naim would be foolish to fundamentally change a signature loved by so many (if not all of us).

For what that's worth.

Harry, if you recall we use the same dealer earlier his year I had a back to back demo of a 250dr against a 300dr. The dealer replicated my system including S/L cables where used after listening  to the 250dr for some time he swapped it out for a 300dr and as you said the 300 wins by a mile.

We did a bit of arm wrestling and a deal was reached the 300dr was installed about three months ago and I would say it is probably the best all round value for money upgrade I have made.

Don't get me wrong the 250dr is a cracking amplifier for the money but  in my system and room the  300dr is simply much better.

At three months, your 300 should be nicely on song but don't be surprised if it keeps changing for the good for a while yet.

Our 300 came from that dealer and after we chopped it in for a 500, another forum member bought it from them.

When our 500 went in for the DR work they were kind enough to lend us a 250DR, which was most welcome. I gave it a really in depth try out over about five weeks. At it's price point I wouldn't take it over cheaper alternatives but I can see how it might appeal.

After trialing (over a number of years separated by long intervals)  202/200, 282/250, 282/200 and even 202/250, we had pretty much given up on Naim amps and stayed with considerably cheaper alternatives.. One day we wandered into that dealer and bumped into a CDS3/252/300 driving Spendor S8e. Utterly spell binding.  Even given the huge price difference it was difficult to believe that the 300 and 250.2 could be from the same maker, so different were they. Or at least to my ears. The 252/300 was the first solid state combo that convinced me that valves could be abandoned without any regret. And we did!