282/HCDR/250DR vs 282/HCDR/250DR X 2 Biamped

I don't "Capiche!", sorry nobody has ever complained about a Witch hat cable.

Anyway Yannis Tome makes very good cables, why not speak to him, he will make you a DIN/XLR from Mogami 2549.

Again Allante, trying to help, I hope you got the drift this time.

Allante, I too struggle to understand some of your posts, but would love to have you as a dinner party guest!!

Regards

Tim

ryder. posted:

Huge posted:

I never understood the theory of bi-wiring or bi-amping.

Bi-wiring...  makes no difference to the frequency range or the output voltages the amp has to handle, but doubles the capacitance and cost of the speaker cable.
(A properly designed cable causes no interaction between different frequencies anyway.  Actually it's quite hard to make a cable misbehave in this specific way and even if it does misbehave like this, then the bi-wired cables would need to be run separately with considerable distance between them to realise the advantage of separating the current feeds - if not then they'll still interact!).

Bi-amping...  makes no difference to the frequency range or the output voltages the amps have to handle (and both amps have to handle the same full range), but increases the complexity of the load on each amp at the crossover point.
The amps MAY work better at frequencies well away from the crossover region, but this isn't guaranteed and will be amp and load specific.  Potentially a sort of HiFi focused setup, sacrificing sonic integrity in the midrange (around the crossover point) for a possible improvement at LF and/or HF.  With some specific amp / speaker pairings, it might be possible to use this to help even out speakers that have a good midrange but have problems at one or both frequency extremes without loosing too much in the crossover region.  May work best with three way systems where the crossovers are well away from the midrange frequencies where human hearing is most discriminating.

Active crossover...  This limits the frequency range each of the amps has to handle and can potentially be made to achieve crossover characteristics better matched to the drivers.  In addition the drivers are connected to a source impedance that's much less dependant on frequency.  I understand this one.  Only worth it for very expensive systems.

Active speakers...  The amps in the speakers can be specifically tailored to the drive units giving further possibilities for optimisation.  I understand this one.

Good informative post. The general consensus with biwiring is it sounds worse than single-wire. Biwiring cables exist because some (or most) speaker manufacturers provide biwiring terminals on their speakers. From what I understand, there is no technical advantage with biwiring. The designer of a renowned speaker manufacturer admitted that they provide biwiring because some markets demand for it. It's a commercial thing.

Biamping may not have an advantage when the dual amplifiers are compared to a single amplifier of higher pedigree. Nevertheless, it will eliminate the use of metal links or any sort of jumpers or F-connection between the HF and LF terminals of the speaker. In some ways, the elimination of this link between the speaker terminals can be beneficial in some systems.

For what it is worth - my understanding from a conversation I had with a dealer a few years back is that Naim Preamps are only designed to drive one Poweramp - hence the SNAXO product. Pre Naim I was into the whole bi-wire / bi-amp thing. My original Naim set up (282/HC/200) blew the TAG McLaren Bi-Amp set up it replaced apart. Helped get rid of a load of unsightly wiring as well.

Allante93 posted:

 

Well Simon, is busy, and I'm not the guy!

But you do understand the benefits of an An Active System, with Naim's Snaxo Technologies! LOL....

"ADAM MEREDITHMEMBER

9/14/07 12:20 PM

No we don't have a particular beef against bi-amping - rather bi-wiring.

However, bi-wiring seldom show gains over the purchase of an improved amplifier. This may (at new prices) cost no more than the total for the two "lesser" amplifiers and extra speaker cables."

"RICHARD DANE ADMINISTRATOR

1/9/13 9:22 AM

Don't do it.  Naim recommend against it for good reason - For one, the amp won't like it and it could lead to failure.  Worth noting that any consequent failure could be considered to have arisen from abuse and thus not covered under any existing warranty"

As to Bi-Amping, I tend to think of it as a long flight.

I can fly direct from Passive MI, USA to Active UK.

Or, change flights at Bi Amp NY, USA!

May take longer, but I will get there, plus that direct flight is a killer $$$!

X raised  to the (n + 1) divided by (n + 1)

Allante93!

 

 

I'm not the brightest kid on the Block, but you do understand the  gentlemen above.

Now that's Simple!

I love quotes!

@ Tim, ever in the Detroit Area always Welcome!

Allante93!

The area under the curve, the Integral vs change at a specific pt and time the derivative.

Thank you Hugh!

Alan Willby posted:

ryder. posted:

Huge posted:

 

For what it is worth - my understanding from a conversation I had with a dealer a few years back is that Naim Preamps are only designed to drive one Poweramp - hence the SNAXO product. Pre Naim I was into the whole bi-wire / bi-amp thing. My original Naim set up (282/HC/200) blew the TAG McLaren Bi-Amp set up it replaced apart. Helped get rid of a load of unsightly wiring as well.

Yes Alan, but Naim's SCDR & HCDR has

outputs, which enabled it to drive multiple amps!

The same SCDR, which drives DB's 500 DRs in his Active S1 System!

The same SCDR, which drives Tonym 500 DRs in his Active System!

The same HCDR, which drives my 3 x 250.2 in my Passive Tri-Amped Briks!

I hope that helped, if not HH  can explain it!

Allante93!

PS.Big fun, sorry, I have to go sale some Realestate, to pay for my future Snaxo 362!

Only 2K USD! LOL...

Out!

analogmusic posted:

Now we are talking.

I have heard vertere DIN/XLR on Nap 250 and Nap 500, and it was instant WOW! I didn't expect it at all, but a big upgrade.

Bigger soundstage, much more clarity in the bass,  more resolution in the high frequencies.

I know what you mean by the subtle difference between flashback and Chord cables, but this is not subtle at all to my ears.

 

 

 

How much does the Vertere DIN/XLR cable cost? I cannot find it on the Vertere website. You may want to check out my thread on Pinkfish.

By the way, there are folks here who find the NAC A5 to sound better than the Chord Epic Twin or vice versa. Just to inform that I now have both cables hooked up to the system.

NAP 200 ==> (NAC A5) ==> HF terminals of speakers

NAP 250 DR ==> (Chord Epic Twin) ==> LF terminals of speakers

The setup is sounding stellar. I will revert to the single NAP 250 DR this weekend.

I've always been curious about chord speaker cable, but then NACA 5 is hard to beat.... some members of Naim forum came back to Naca 5 after SL.... 

Having heard SL, I hear that is is the better speaker cable, but yes at a cost.

I do read some amazing reviews on various forums, one or 2 people posted that they heard Sarum speaker cable and it sounded similar to NACA5. But then many others say Sarum is amazingly better than A5. 

I just don't find much consistency in reviews.

Ryder I've answered your query on the other website.