64 Bit n-serve

Eoink posted:

Yes, which does not provide the same level of functionality as the app unless you sit very close to the rack or use binoculars. And isn't even referenced in the product feature list on the Naim product page. The touch screen is references as a product feature.

They do show the remote in one of the images, however they don't  show an iPhone or iPad!

If Naim made the iPad / iPhone you'd have a valid point.

If you want to buy add on accessories from 3rd parties it's not unreasonable to buy accessories form a similar time period to the item.  Why would you expect 3rd party accessories manufactured many years later to be compatible.  Get a contemporaneous iPhone or iPad.

Eloise posted:

Huge posted:

Eloise posted:

Huge posted:

(You could always buy a Unity Star when they come out and buy an Android device to control it)

An Android device where after each update and on different devices there are difficulties and issues with the application?

Those are backward compatibility bugs due to inadequate testing rather than Google intentionally killing off 3rd party applications.

It doesn't matter why it doesn't work ... the point is that Apple are killing off 32bit support to ensure the OS works the best with new hardware.  Its been known they would kill off 32bit support since the 64bit OS / ARM cores came out in 2013.

Its up to Naim to keep their app up to date if they want it working on new versions of IOS.

If you want new development to move it on to a new platform, I assume you're willing to pay for this new development then?

(I assume it hasn't stopped working on the existing iPhones and iPads on the existing iOS version, so you can still use that?)

To use the car analogy... that's even worse.

You buy a new 3rd party accessory to fit a new car model, and when it doesn't fit the old model you expect the car manufacturer to make an adapter to make new accessories fit on to the old model, and to do it free of charge?

This is a circular discussion I think. The original question was whether Naim would update the app to work on IOS 11. None of us know. Huge thinks it's fine they don't and if you want to buy a new HDX go and look for a phone that was designed at the same time to control it. I personally don't care, just wanted to make it clear that we're not talking about a long-withdrawn piece of equipment which seemed to be where the conversation was headed.

S

Huge posted:

Is there an infrared remote control?

There is with HDX, and as an optional extra with Unitiserve, but it's no substitute for the app, especially when using UPnP. To me, one of the benefits of a Naim server is that you can easily flit between the Naim app and N-Serve on the same iOS device to create and manage playlists, monitor ripping, edit basic metadata, etc. If N-Serve doesn't work on current devices, and the current Naim app doesn't work on old devices, that means I have to run an additional iOS device - or worse, fire up a computer, when I'm listening to music.   

If you want it changed when Apple changes the rules, then you should pay for it.

Expecting Naim to compensate you for Apple's commercial decisions isn't rational.

If I were keeping my HDX, I'd happily pay for an updated app.  How much is it and where do I download it?

Wait for the OS to be released!

And considering the work involved, the relatively small user base and the low expected uptake rate Naim may have to charge in the £100's for it!

If you are willing to pay £200-£400, then let Naim know and, you never know if they get a lot of requests pledging their money, they may consider paying for the development an updated version for the new Apple platform (in the end it may turn out cheaper if most HDX & Uniti Serve users pledge their money).

Huge posted:

If you want it changed when Apple changes the rules, then you should pay for it.

Expecting Naim to compensate you for Apple's commercial decisions isn't rational.

Not in my opinion.

Naim dictated we use an Apple device as the most convenient way of controlling their products. Not Apple. And they never offered an Android alternative.

They should continue to support existing units in the field by evolving the app as required for a reasonable period after a product has been discontinued.

Personally I think this should be for a period of 10 years. 

The HDX is still a current product. The Unitiserve has only just been discontinued.

Naim need to up their game in supporting these units IMHO.

When was the last time n-Serve for Mac was updated? I think Naim have lost interest in it.

John Bailey posted:

Huge posted:

If you want it changed when Apple changes the rules, then you should pay for it.

Expecting Naim to compensate you for Apple's commercial decisions isn't rational.

Not in my opinion.

Naim dictated we use an Apple device as the most convenient way of controlling their products. Not Apple. And they never offered an Android alternative.

They should continue to support existing units in the field by evolving the app as required for a reasonable period after a product has been discontinued.

Personally I think this should be for a period of 10 years. 

The HDX is still a current product. The Unitiserve has only just been discontinued.

Naim need to up their game in supporting these units IMHO.

 

Then apply the same to Apple...  In your words...

"They should continue to support existing units in the field by evolving the app maintaining app compatibility as required for a reasonable period after a product has been discontinued.

Personally I think this should be for a period of 10 years."

Applying that to Naim and not applying it to Apple is disingenuous.

Richard Morris posted:

When was the last time n-Serve for Mac was updated? I think Naim have lost interest in it.

I think the last update was some time last year - the icon was updated but I don't recall anything else changing. 

The app is actually really good - I prefer it to the Naim App I use for the Muso - but it does have a couple of bugs that have never been ironed out.

Perhaps we are getting ahead of ourselves as I can't see n-Serve showing up in the list of incompatible apps on my iPhone. Perhaps it is already 64 bit capable.

I'm a bit late to this topic, so correct me if I'm getting it wrong.

At present, I use the Naim app to control my NDS, with my HDX acting as a ripper / server.

As far as replay is concerned, will things remain as is, i.e. usable?

Regarding editing of metadata, I use nServe, via my iPad, so, ignoring the iPad, will I still be able to do this via the desktop app on my MacBook?

Non tech answers would be appreciated .................... sorry. 

Richard Morris posted:

When was the last time n-Serve for Mac was updated? I think Naim have lost interest in it.

It's clearly a dead app, as far as I can see the new server, the Core, is managed by the Naim app. So I wouldn't expect to see any feature updates ever. The N-Serve app only supports one existing product, which is unlikely to sell many more if any.

Naim may choose to update the app they identified as a feature of their earlier server platforms to work under IOS 11 or they may now, but I wouldn't expect it to see any further development.

Are we *sure* that n-serve for IOS *isnt* 64bit already?

It isnt listed on my iphone under the App Compatibility listing, suggesting it is 64bit

Huge posted:

John Bailey posted:

Huge posted:

If you want it changed when Apple changes the rules, then you should pay for it.

Expecting Naim to compensate you for Apple's commercial decisions isn't rational.

Not in my opinion.

Naim dictated we use an Apple device as the most convenient way of controlling their products. Not Apple. And they never offered an Android alternative.

They should continue to support existing units in the field by evolving the app as required for a reasonable period after a product has been discontinued.

Personally I think this should be for a period of 10 years. 

The HDX is still a current product. The Unitiserve has only just been discontinued.

Naim need to up their game in supporting these units IMHO.

 

Then apply the same to Apple...  In your words...

"They should continue to support existing units in the field by evolving the app maintaining app compatibility as required for a reasonable period after a product has been discontinued.

Personally I think this should be for a period of 10 years."

Applying that to Naim and not applying it to Apple is disingenuous.

Not really. 

Mobile phones have a short lifespan and are almost disposable items in comparison to decent HiFi equipment which should give many years good service.

And I've never paid Apple anywhere near as much as I have paid Naim for the privilege of owning their equipment. 

dave marshall posted:

I'm a bit late to this topic, so correct me if I'm getting it wrong.

At present, I use the Naim app to control my NDS, with my HDX acting as a ripper / server.

As far as replay is concerned, will things remain as is, i.e. usable?

Regarding editing of metadata, I use nServe at present, via my iPad, so, ignoring the iPad, will I still be able to do this via the desktop app on my MacBook?

Non tech answers would be appreciated .................... sorry. 

Yes.

The Naim app is for current devices, so Naim will ensure it runs on IOS 11.

If you upgrade your IPAD to IOS 11, the N-Serve app will not run on it. (Although Jon H has pointed out this may not actually be the case.)

The desktop app will not be affected, so you can still edit via the desktop.

The main challenge comes for people who use the HDX as a player, as without the app you'd need to choose the music you're playing from the front screen or via the remote, so in practice by standing or sitting next to the HDX.

jon honeyball posted:

Are we *sure* that n-serve for IOS *isnt* 64bit already?

It isnt listed on my iphone under the App Compatibility listing, suggesting it is 64bit

I'm not sure at all Jon, I just took it as a fact based on the original post. Thinking about it, it doesn't give the "this may slow your handset" warning, so maybe it's already 64 bit.

Simple answer...

Don't upgrade your iPad to IOS 11 as that's what causes the problem to occur!

John Bailey posted:

Huge posted:

Then apply the same to Apple...  In your words...

"They should continue to support existing units in the field by evolving the app maintaining app compatibility as required for a reasonable period after a product has been discontinued.

Personally I think this should be for a period of 10 years."

Applying that to Naim and not applying it to Apple is disingenuous.

Not really. 

Mobile phones have a short lifespan and are almost disposable items in comparison to decent HiFi equipment which should give many years good service.

And I've never paid Apple anywhere near as much as I have paid Naim for the privilege of owning their equipment. 

If they are almost disposable, then keep the old one as well.

If you knowingly rely on a cheap 'almost disposable' item to keep your HiFi running...

Eoink posted:

jon honeyball posted:

Are we *sure* that n-serve for IOS *isnt* 64bit already?

It isnt listed on my iphone under the App Compatibility listing, suggesting it is 64bit

I'm not sure at all Jon, I just took it as a fact based on the original post. Thinking about it, it doesn't give the "this may slow your handset" warning, so maybe it's already 64 bit.

It isn't listed on my iPad under App Compatibility (have it installed for some reason even though I don't have a UnitiServe) ... looks like everyone is worried for no reason.

Eoink posted:

dave marshall posted:

I'm a bit late to this topic, so correct me if I'm getting it wrong.

At present, I use the Naim app to control my NDS, with my HDX acting as a ripper / server.

As far as replay is concerned, will things remain as is, i.e. usable?

Regarding editing of metadata, I use nServe at present, via my iPad, so, ignoring the iPad, will I still be able to do this via the desktop app on my MacBook?

Non tech answers would be appreciated .................... sorry. 

Yes.

The Naim app is for current devices, so Naim will ensure it runs on IOS 11.

If you upgrade your IPAD to IOS 11, the N-Serve app will not run on it. (Although Jon H has pointed out this may not actually be the case.)

The desktop app will not be affected, so you can still edit via the desktop.

The main challenge comes for people who use the HDX as a player, as without the app you'd need to choose the music you're playing from the front screen or via the remote, so in practice by standing or sitting next to the HDX.

Many thanks, Eoink .............. phew! 

Still, it would be good if some of our resident tech experts could clear things up for the rest of us, as to whether or not nServe will, in fact still run under IOS 11.

We'll probably can't be certain until either Naim makes an announcement or until the full release version of IOS 11 is released (currently specified as "fall 2017") and someone tries it.  Someone may be on the IOS 11 beta programme, but will probably be covered by the NDA.

I really hope they do support it.  I find using it more flexible and reliable than the NAIM app.  Enter the search criteria, see the albums pop up, hit play, select random, enjoy!  In comparison, as last night, NAIM app blank.  Several restarts. its up.  UPNP server list - empty, nope wait a second 2 pop up.  now three.  Choose mimiserver,, go into high res. hmmn half the Lou Reed albums missing. Settle on Transformer.  Sounds great.  Slightly more 'live' than the coaxial feed from the HDX into  NDS but with 5 times the hassle.  I, for one, would sorely miss it or simply hold back on IOS 11.  HDX second hand values wont be much to look at either on well known auction sites.  ho hum.

I've got an answer from Naim:

"The n-Serve app is a 64 bit app and so should work correctly on iOS 11 (in fact it is running fine on our iOS 11 development devices)"

In fact, there is a new n-serve app in the app store with a black icon. The old one had a green icon.

Harald