Hugo 2

Interesting comments... surely many poor recordings have poor low resolution top end? i wonder if there is a mismatch somewhere if you are finding somewhat compressed recordings are exhibiting over bearing top end energy... because I suspect that will be coming from the replay system chain not the recording itself. Perhaps not ideal synergy between Hugo 2 and ATC actives. Remember ground reference and impedance matching are so important here.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Interesting comments... surely many poor recordings have poor low resolution top end? i wonder if there is a mismatch somewhere if you are finding somewhat compressed recordings are exhibiting over bearing top end energy... because I suspect that will be coming from the replay system chain not the recording itself. Perhaps not ideal synergy between Hugo 2 and ATC actives. Remember ground reference and impedance matching are so important here.

I'm not sure, reducing the toe in has helped, need to do more listening. I had no such issues with Hugo TT and SCM40A. My source isn't connected to ground at all (battery powered laptop). I suspect it's a simple case of SCM19A is brighter and less forgiving than SCM40A. The tweeter crossover is different (has to work harder on SCM19A) and the mids on SCM40A were cleaner.

Simon I know you have been auditioning speakers recently. I came across Neumann KH310A actives that look very interesting and very reasonably priced. Worth a look.

Hi HM, thanks yes I was listening to different speaker, probably in hindsight more out of curiously than anything else.

I currently use SCM 19 mk2s with my NAP250.2. If I use a Naim source, with my 252DR I tend to find a slightly curtailed top end, using a Hugo DAC (mk1 or TT) I find the treble more extended and a slightly more nimble presentation. Both are attractive but different ... and if I honest it tends to be the Hugo sources that maintain my interest.

Not looking at actives currently.. in fact I am looking forward to the Nova... even if ultimately not as resolving, insightful or detailed as my current setup, if it maintains my interest when listening I might be tempted to down size.

Keep us posted on your thoughts when you do get to try the nova. It will be interesting to see how it fares against your current setup, which will probably be very hard to beat.

Halloween Man posted:

Simon I know you have been auditioning speakers recently. I came across Neumann KH310A actives that look very interesting and very reasonably priced. Worth a look.

I tried a pair of those for a week, with a Hugo TT. They are very good speakers,  competent, good value, without obvious flaws, but not a patch on the ATC SCM25As I had at the time. ATC midrange is something very special. I've also tried the little KH120s, very nice indeed - if I wanted a desktop or compact standpoint type system,  they would be on the list for sure.

Thanks, interesting. I loved my almost identical SCM40A but they had just too much bass for my room. If only they had the acoustic control switches of the kh310 to fine tune bass response. What do you use now?

Well interestingly according to ATC the mid dome radiator in the ATC SCM19 6″ SL Pro Midwoofer is the same as the dome used in the ATC SCM40 3″ Midrange - and so share many similar mid properties and provide that ATC performance and sound in the mids - but clearly the crossovers are somewhat different.

S

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Well interestingly according to ATC the mid dome radiator in the ATC SCM19 6″ SL Pro Midwoofer is the same as the dome used in the ATC SCM40 3″ Midrange - and so share many similar mid properties and provide that ATC performance and sound in the mids - but clearly the crossovers are somewhat different.

S

Funnily enough I was checking data on the SM75-150 dome midrange just yesterday, and stumbled across that same info! Not sure how similar the motor and suspension are -presumably quite a bit different in view of the much greater excursions needed at the bass end, but apparently the design allows the dome to take over radiation at the mid frequencies, so will contribute at least something of the wonderful midrange unit's character. The same is not true of their two smaller speaker models, on which the smaller soft dome in the mid-bass unit is apparently primarily just a dust cap.

The dedicated mid driver in the 40 and the tweeter crossover does make a difference, my guess is it's this that makes the 40 more forgiving.

Been listening again this afternoon to Hugo 2 and certainly reducing toe in and slight repositioning of speakers has helped. Just enjoyed listening to the music, wasn't conscious of any issues. There is certainly no hardness or grain, it's more of a speaker/room balance thing.

It is a wonderful driver, arguably the best there is. I have a pair for a home build project, and one thing I am going tomtry is a satellite mid + tweeter with my PMC speakers, before I get back to playing with bass designs (the more difficult part to get right!)

Halloween Man posted:

Thanks, interesting. I loved my almost identical SCM40A but they had just too much bass for my room. If only they had the acoustic control switches of the kh310 to fine tune bass response. What do you use now?

I've now got some ATC SCM100 ASL towers with anniversary amp packs, and a DAVE. I am very happy with my system, it reliably gives me an overwhelming, involving, transporting musical experience.  ATC special, Chord special. A pity you couldn't make the 40As work, they are similar to the 25As I had, which I thought were excellent. They do benefit from being away from room boundaries though, so if you had to use your 40As close to a wall the bass is likely to have been uneven. fwiw I don't think it would have been a great crime to use some judicious digital EQ - J River Media Center for example has some excellent EQ options, using 64 bit arithmetic, likely to be better than any switched EQ at the speaker end.

Thanks Likes. Some system you have got there, you must be lucky enough to have the right room to put them in.

I did consider and try digital EQ but it just seemed to kill some of the magic, perhaps I should have experimented further. I tried audirvana eq plugin under os x, it didn't work terribly well. I just use iTunes now, not sure how good its eq is.

I also tried digital room EQ (Dirac Live) with the same negative effect on the music. However, I think EQ can have a place, just that it can't cure everything, and too much simply makes it unnatural because reality is never a dead flat room. However it is possibly more likely it could work well if the problem is evenly increasing bass arising from room size as opposed to the effect of nodes.

I don't use EQ myself either, and I don't agree with the Dirac type solution of trying to correct a speaker by measuring at the listening position and then EQing the inverse. But I reckon if I had problem with a room mode say then a modest notch filter would be worth trying, and similarly slightly nudging the top end up or down to mitigate the effects of a hard or soft room would be OK. J River seems to have a very good equaliser built in, and that's only for starters - there are all sorts of convolution options available that are beyond the scope of my brain. My solution is to have the speakers well away from walls and to listen close, and I am indeed lucky enough to have a decent sized room (not to mention a tolerant wife). 

So what is the verdict on Hugo 2? Should I ditch my Hugo or wait until Hugo 3? 

Hugo 2 doesn't make Hugo a poor DAC but there is an uplift in sound quality. Music is more three dimensional and realistic. It also has a remote control and future developments such as m-scaler and a wireless streamer add on device will give it a long shelf life.

The filters are very subtle. The incisive filters are subtly brighter than the warm filters but they won't cure an overly bright or soft system. The incisive filter is brighter because you perceive the starting and stopping of notes better where a lot of high frequencies live.

Now The question is 

Hugo2 vs dave

Dave vs blu2+dave

I've ordered a Hugo 2 myself. Hopefully should have it tomorrow or Friday. I wanted the black rather than silver, but only silver was available.

Can't wait!

God stuff, let us know what you think. I ordered black one back in Feb, dealer got his silver demo one first and I had to wait another week for black. Anyway, they both sound the same!

What speakers are you using?

Halloween Man posted:

God stuff, let us know what you think. I ordered black one back in Feb, dealer got his silver demo one first and I had to wait another week for black. Anyway, they both sound the same!

What speakers are you using?

Will do. I'm using Guru Juniors

Got my Hugo 2 today. I'm trying to contain my excitement. OMG!
Listened to a few tracks from a bit of Jazz to Kate Bush and Massive attack, it's sounds so clean and spacious with a bass has such impact and depth! Never heard the previous Hugo so can't comment or compare on its sound. But from my previous DAC 2Qute and Mojo, on the basis of what I've heard so far, have to agree with Halloween man it has a massive uplift in sound. Vinyl has been my main source, think the Hugo 2 could change that!
WOW!

Congrats on your new Hugo 2. I agree it is quite an upgrade from the original and sounds wonderful.

I'm caught between a rock and a hard place with ATC actives - I'm finding SCM19A too unforgiving on too many tracks, and found SCM40A had too much bass on some tracks for my room. They are both pretty transparent speakers in that they just really tell it as it is but the SCM40A is definitively more forgiving, I suspect due to the dedicated mid driver, tweeter crossover, and more bass warmth. I've requested my old SCM40A speakers back as I prefer their presentation and will just apply EQ to reduce bass to the tracks where it's needed. In iTunes you can apply EQ settings to individual tracks so not every track has to have it enabled.

Hi Halloween Man,

Could it possibly be iTunes that is the issue as I didn't find the SQ that great and now use Roon?

Perhaps give Audirvana a try just to rule out the source.

As you know I use the SCM40A in a similar size room with a Huge TT with no bass issues at all

Good luck.

Muttonjef posted:

Hi Halloween Man,

Could it possibly be iTunes that is the issue as I didn't find the SQ that great and now use Roon?

Perhaps give Audirvana a try just to rule out the source.

As you know I use the SCM40A in a similar size room with a Huge TT with no bass issues at all

Good luck.

 

+1: I hadn't twigged that you weee using iTunes direct to Hugo, as I had in mind you were another Audirvana user (did you maybe try it sometime?) I'veno idea if iTunes may be the culprit as I've never used it outside of having to to play music on iPhone, when I really dislike it for operational reasons, but

Audirvana certainly is good , though since Apple's last major IOS "upgrade" the OS doesn't allow direct mode (the best quality mode), except. by using a work-around -straightforward but a hassle after every IOS  (or not updating IOS, which is some  people's solution).