S.Lumina Interconect VS. Hi. Line

Mike Kent posted:

Trouble is, the long waiting game is so frustrating. I have no idea why it takes so long for bits of wire to do this, or how it works

Perhaps it is not the time it takes the cable to come 'on song', as you use to say here, but the time it takes you to come 'on song', after you've spent a lot of money and the thing is signed by Naim.

Problem is, Roberto is Italian, and Italians are way too used to be fooled by brands and marketing (not to mention TV, politics and Vatican), so they are , in general, extremely cautious and diffident. Roberto is right: his SL might not be worth the expense. It's simple. But so many of other members seems to marry the idea that the SL must be better, so it has to be. At the ridicule cost of having to 'run it in' for a year or so.

Enjoy a good weekend, all of you.

Hungryhalibut posted:

It's interesting that you mention an 'into the box' presentation, which is completely opposite to what I have, where the speakers just disappear. 

The cable could be running in the opposite direction 

Mike Kent posted:

Super Lumina does take a very long time to really come on song. I have added it bit by bit to my system, and started as the OP did by replacing my Hi-Line. I thought it was better than the Hi-Line, but certainly not overwhelmingly so. Then I added the speaker cables etc... and just waited. How my opinion then changed! Over time the sound became so completely 'right'. Much more of everything. Beautifully detailed and involving, and exceptionally musical.

Trouble is, the long waiting game is so frustrating. I have no idea why it takes so long for bits of wire to do this, or how it works, but I recently swapped back to NACA5 and the Hi-Line etc, just to do a quick comparison, and there was absolutely no contest.

HI Mike you did write a thread  about the SL DIN-XLR, did you keep those finally?

Crompton Divided posted:

alanbass1 posted:

Crompton Divided posted:

Beyond humour, forum folklore, and patent absurdities like people continuously stating that preventing the cable from touching the floor (which type of floor?  

Dunno why but it really does make a difference. Should it be that way, probably not but it is in the case of SL. From MY EXPERIENCE the sound was a little 'flat ' and came more 'alive' when the cable was free of any connection other than the I/O.  

Ok, fair enough. And does YOUR EXPERIENCE also include a scientific (meaning repeatable, under controlled conditions [= not alone], and giving consistent results under consistent conditions) study of the objective facts that could bring to such a result?

Thanks,

CD

Nope, I use my ears

Emre posted:

I had excatly same sensations with each piece of SL cabling 

Speaker, interconnect din/xlr and then din/din for cd2x.. so there must be a also effect of full loom

DB has described them very good.

They are very expensive but make an impact not that i have tried many better value alternatives to make an assesment on vfm

Someone who had the guts to address the impact of Dreaded Loom!

Brave Lad!

"Perhaps the only Reptile that can adapt to the Naim's ecosystem, is the King Snaic.

That being said, the Reptiles that belong to the SL Family, can only perform at it's best in a familiar environment.

That being the Full Loom!

Loom River, drifting from Statement Hills!"

Allante93!

Mike Kent posted:

Super Lumina does take a very long time to really come on song. I have added it bit by bit to my system, and started as the OP did by replacing my Hi-Line. I thought it was better than the Hi-Line, but certainly not overwhelmingly so. Then I added the speaker cables etc... and just waited. How my opinion then changed! Over time the sound became so completely 'right'. Much more of everything. Beautifully detailed and involving, and exceptionally musical.

Trouble is, the long waiting game is so frustrating. I have no idea why it takes so long for bits of wire to do this, or how it works, but I recently swapped back to NACA5 and the Hi-Line etc, just to do a quick comparison, and there was absolutely no contest.

What I really despise about these replies is that the OP has an opinion, then self doubt comes into play, so you come on an open forum , and want to justify that what your OWN ears are telling you HAS to be wrong. His ears tell him one thing, and then you have all these others tell him, yes, you're wrong, it can't be that way because these cables are too expensive, and you just aren't listening right. Your set up is all wrong, these fancy cables shouldn't touch this or that, has to be a certain way or else all is futile. They need six years of constant use to sound the way they do. Your rack is too close to the floor. Did they get the shake test from Naim?  It's getting so ridiculous!

The above highlighted reply really bothers me to some extent, this member has soo much money into his system, that it exceeds the average cost of a house in the US, by quite a lot I may add. He's living a fantasy that few could experience or would really want to for that matter, even if they had the financial means to do so. What normal person on the street will ever pay $5000 US dollars for a 1 meter length of cable or $100,000.00 US dollars for an  amp and pre-amp.  It's so out of control now what is required to be happy listening to music, that it really borders on the insane!!!!!!

Lets put this in perspective, this members cable costs exceed most peoples yearly income, and this has become the accepted norm on this forum. He goes on to say that that the cables made a difference, and it is no contest, of course,  it's called self justification. You're talking about a ten times price difference between the two sets of cables when all is said and done in this particular system.

 When you have the financial means, this little fantasy, or hobby, whatever you want to call this sickness, is fine, and it's your prerogative to spend your money the way you want to, but what I object to is the exaggeration. Terms like massive, or huge. I have been listening to stereo equipment for so many years, conducted blind listening tests with cables, ranging in price from a few cents a foot to thousands of dollars for a pair of cables. In my opinion, I have never experienced a massive difference, ever!!  

You come on a forum looking for advice on a worthwhile investment. All you really want is an honest reply to an inquiry. You do not need to have these tiny presentation differences that are for the most part are so infinitesimally small, as to not really matter, highlighted. This nonsense, in my opinion of course, of spending thousands and thousands of dollars on cables is not necessary or essential to enjoy a music system. Quality cables at sensible prices and that have a certain synergy with your equipment can make a difference, but what is needed here is an honest reply. Personally, and I do express the term, personally, I never could understand spending so much on cables, that if we are to be completely honest with ourselves, return so little VFM for the sonic differences. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder, no matter how ridiculous it seems.  All IMHO, of course.

It is not necesseray to spend thousands on electronics to enjoy music as well

A nice fiio dap with 5$ monk goes a very long way... a rega brio amp is vfm,  naim is not a vfm proposition at all, like SL cables

I used to see expensive cables as lunacy for süper rich but now i see them as part of the ecosystem 

Spending 20k£ on a pre amp or 7k on a pre amp or  3k on a power supply iş no different  than spending thousands on cables, all crazy!!

A nice creek amp and cd player is a vfm compare to Naim, good sound with a good price tag

SL cables are crazy money for all working man, like myself, but still they sound good ıf you can afford them.. 

They have impact the sound, you may like it or not but the difference is very easy to dedect 

And to be quite honest, I noticed the difference right away. No thousands of hours playing time, no coiling things up or prayers from celestial virgins a dawn. Yes, my new Focals have improved over the two weeks I've had them but the cables were there from the beginning.  I do feel that this can all just get a bit anal at times. Just enjoy the music.

badlands posted:

Mike Kent posted:

Super Lumina does take a very long time to really come on song. I have added it bit by bit to my system, and started as the OP did by replacing my Hi-Line. I thought it was better than the Hi-Line, but certainly not overwhelmingly so. Then I added the speaker cables etc... and just waited. How my opinion then changed! Over time the sound became so completely 'right'. Much more of everything. Beautifully detailed and involving, and exceptionally musical.

Trouble is, the long waiting game is so frustrating. I have no idea why it takes so long for bits of wire to do this, or how it works, but I recently swapped back to NACA5 and the Hi-Line etc, just to do a quick comparison, and there was absolutely no contest.

What I really despise about these replies is that the OP has an opinion, then self doubt comes into play, so you come on an open forum , and want to justify that what your OWN ears are telling you HAS to be wrong. His ears tell him one thing, and then you have all these others tell him, yes, you're wrong, it can't be that way because these cables are too expensive, and you just aren't listening right. Your set up is all wrong, these fancy cables shouldn't touch this or that, has to be a certain way or else all is futile. They need six years of constant use to sound the way they do. Your rack is too close to the floor. Did they get the shake test from Naim?  It's getting so ridiculous!

The above highlighted reply really bothers me to some extent, this member has soo much money into his system, that it exceeds the average cost of a house in the US, by quite a lot I may add. He's living a fantasy that few could experience or would really want to for that matter, even if they had the financial means to do so. What normal person on the street will ever pay $5000 US dollars for a 1 meter length of cable or $100,000.00 US dollars for an  amp and pre-amp.  It's so out of control now what is required to be happy listening to music, that it really borders on the insane!!!!!!

Lets put this in perspective, this members cable costs exceed most peoples yearly income, and this has become the accepted norm on this forum. He goes on to say that that the cables made a difference, and it is no contest, of course,  it's called self justification. You're talking about a ten times price difference between the two sets of cables when all is said and done in this particular system.

 When you have the financial means, this little fantasy, or hobby, whatever you want to call this sickness, is fine, and it's your prerogative to spend your money the way you want to, but what I object to is the exaggeration. Terms like massive, or huge. I have been listening to stereo equipment for so many years, conducted blind listening tests with cables, ranging in price from a few cents a foot to thousands of dollars for a pair of cables. In my opinion, I have never experienced a massive difference, ever!!  

You come on a forum looking for advice on a worthwhile investment. All you really want is an honest reply to an inquiry. You do not need to have these tiny presentation differences that are for the most part are so infinitesimally small, as to not really matter, highlighted. This nonsense, in my opinion of course, of spending thousands and thousands of dollars on cables is not necessary or essential to enjoy a music system. Quality cables at sensible prices and that have a certain synergy with your equipment can make a difference, but what is needed here is an honest reply. Personally, and I do express the term, personally, I never could understand spending so much on cables, that if we are to be completely honest with ourselves, return so little VFM for the sonic differences. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder, no matter how ridiculous it seems.  All IMHO, of course.

I'm retired, part time Real Estate Agent, and love surfing the Forum. I've created some relationships across the pond, which are solid, never met in person, just a shared interest in Music! 

On the other hand, I've deposited funds in accounts, called, and emailed Dealers, right here in the States, just to get the cold shoulder!

The Beautiful thing about the Forum, and I'm learning, when I hear something, that is outright, ridiculous, absurd, ludicrous, I have the option to just ignore it! 

Funny thing, sometimes it's me, and sound member of the Forum, just ignore me, and then, I tinker on my 2nd System!

Kind of reminds me of the Emperors New Clothes!

If you like it, I love it!

Naked as a jaybird!

Enjoy your Music, the Why we do this.

The How, will take care of itself!

Allante93!

Emre posted:

It is not necesseray to spend thousands on electronics to enjoy music as well

A nice fiio dap with 5$ monk goes a very long way... a rega brio amp is vfm,  naim is not a vfm proposition at all, like SL cables

I used to see expensive cables as lunacy for süper rich but now i see them as part of the ecosystem 

Spending 20k£ on a pre amp or 7k on a pre amp or  3k on a power supply iş no different  than spending thousands on cables, all crazy!!

A nice creek amp and cd player is a vfm compare to Naim, good sound with a good price tag

SL cables are crazy money for all working man, like myself, but still they sound good ıf you can afford them.. 

They have impact the sound, you may like it or not but the difference is very easy to dedect 

In my experience, spending larger amounts on amps, speakers, pre-amps or power supplies can make much larger differences in the overall sound of a system compared to cables, or for that matter racks. Are these large amounts in equipment purchases worth the investment? Only the individual that is making the purchase can make that judgement. Cables, on the other hand, I feel represent very little VFM for the sonic differences.

Naim, Creek, and Rega all have different sonic signatures, and to the individual making the purchase, can represent either excellent or poor value, it depends on what type of sound one is looking for. A Creek, or Rega amp is not very good value if you prefer the sound of Naim equipment.

In blind listening tests that I have participated in, individuals with your opinion that certain cables are very easy to, "detect", could not do any better, including myself, than 50% right. So, until I see and hear differently, especially considering the price differences in these cables, that individuals would be able, 100% of the time, correctly pick their cable against other cables, my opinion stands.

badlands posted:

What I really despise about these replies is that the OP has an opinion, then self doubt comes into play, so you come on an open forum , and want to justify that what your OWN ears are telling you HAS to be wrong. His ears tell him one thing, and then you have all these others tell him, yes, you're wrong, it can't be that way because these cables are too expensive, and you just aren't listening right. Your set up is all wrong, these fancy cables shouldn't touch this or that, has to be a certain way or else all is futile. They need six years of constant use to sound the way they do. Your rack is too close to the floor. Did they get the shake test from Naim?  It's getting so ridiculous!

The above highlighted reply really bothers me to some extent, this member has soo much money into his system, that it exceeds the average cost of a house in the US, by quite a lot I may add. He's living a fantasy that few could experience or would really want to for that matter, even if they had the financial means to do so. What normal person on the street will ever pay $5000 US dollars for a 1 meter length of cable or $100,000.00 US dollars for an  amp and pre-amp.  It's so out of control now what is required to be happy listening to music, that it really borders on the insane!!!!!!

Lets put this in perspective, this members cable costs exceed most peoples yearly income, and this has become the accepted norm on this forum. He goes on to say that that the cables made a difference, and it is no contest, of course,  it's called self justification. You're talking about a ten times price difference between the two sets of cables when all is said and done in this particular system.

 When you have the financial means, this little fantasy, or hobby, whatever you want to call this sickness, is fine, and it's your prerogative to spend your money the way you want to, but what I object to is the exaggeration. Terms like massive, or huge. I have been listening to stereo equipment for so many years, conducted blind listening tests with cables, ranging in price from a few cents a foot to thousands of dollars for a pair of cables. In my opinion, I have never experienced a massive difference, ever!!  

You come on a forum looking for advice on a worthwhile investment. All you really want is an honest reply to an inquiry. You do not need to have these tiny presentation differences that are for the most part are so infinitesimally small, as to not really matter, highlighted. This nonsense, in my opinion of course, of spending thousands and thousands of dollars on cables is not necessary or essential to enjoy a music system. Quality cables at sensible prices and that have a certain synergy with your equipment can make a difference, but what is needed here is an honest reply. Personally, and I do express the term, personally, I never could understand spending so much on cables, that if we are to be completely honest with ourselves, return so little VFM for the sonic differences. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder, no matter how ridiculous it seems.  All IMHO, of course.

I am in agreement with your notions. I guess it is a norm to read these sort of remarks on the forum as we can't have control over the things that other people might say. It's just an opinion. My limited experience with whatever cables is the differences are not night and day though it's the little differences that count.  I have tried various speaker cables, interconnects and power cords and the conclusion is the same. No big earth-shattering differences. Exaggeration is quite common and some folks may regard a small difference as a remarkable huge change. I have no problem with these opinions but I know what I believe in.

Bottomline, I believe we will continue to see "nonsense" being frequently posted on the forum. At the end of the day the person who is seeking advice will have to practice due diligence by filtering out bad advice. Of course, the best solution is to listen to the cables and judge for yourself. The issue of cost and VFM is something that's personal. I usually don't spend much money on cables and would rather spend it on equipment instead. I think I may have overspent by going with the Chord Signature TA RCA-DIN (Chord Signature TA DIN-XLR will be coming soon). The Super Lumina and higher level Chord cables are certainly out of question.

I used think the same that cables  like SL and Sarum are too expensive 

until I heard them.

they are better VFM than black box expensive upgrades and sound in my opinion better in some cases than box upgrades.

if I can get better performance from my nap 250 by spending money on a cable why not instead of buying nap 300.

many choices are there from chord company if one doesn't afford Superlumina prices. 

Vertere does naim cables in their entry level DFI range and very good they are and can seriously upgrade the performance. 

Its a free market.

I went out and bought Harbeth speakers - as an antidote to this lunacy.

The Harbeth C7 is less than the price of the SL interconnect. And listening to the system with those speakers gives me the feeling  that I'm finally home. And that everything sounds just right. And that I needn't change a thing.

Exactly as Alan promised. 

Drink your KoolAid wisely.

I've now got the C7s and the SHL5+ - the systems have come together - and I'm not changing a thing - and certainly not buying cables worth more than my speakers. 

The system is already sounding perfect. No point in trying to improve anything.

I am not making an argument on all expensive cables, i believe in marketing hype, diamond audioquest is one example that i feel that i can not be succesfull in a blind test but....

nac5>SL is day and night difference impossible not to dedect, whatever is good or vfm is opinion, 

hiline>SL , din/xlr>SL same as well

also cables are the cherry on good electronics setup, they come to play when you feel like no more boxes or speakers or new TT

They can more easly find at discounted prices than electronics if you are paitent with them, they are high mark up items 

Cables like Super Lumina, Vertere Pulse and the Chord Tuned Aray range are not normal Copper cables.

These are multi-conductor, multi diameter cables, quite intricate in design and hand built which accounts for most of their prices, it isn't something that one can replicate at home.

The connectors used on these cables are not ones you can buy on ebay either, these are precision machined, and quite expensive, and made of copper alloys in some cases.

Beryllium copper is not something I would even try to solder at home.

The Superlumina airplugs are high precision connectors, no way anyone can make one of these at home easily. I certainly cannot.

As for their prices, it is to do with performance, and how much better than can make the electronics sound.

I'm not a fan of box upgrades anymore, as I hear that cables are the weak link in the hi-fi chain. Yes cables cannot improve the signal, but the lesser cables certainly do harm the signal.

The Line out signal is alternative current (not DC - direct current), and flows back and forth between the source and preamp many times a second, and the music signal is modulated onto that 2v signal. How accurately is the signal transmitted ? Not such an easy task as it seems.

Cables DO sound different, and well it is a free market, no one is forcing anyone to buy anything at all.

Little update,

A little more luminuos now perhaps 

One thing i noticed yesterday is a more sophisticated harmonic structure of single instruments and intonation of back vocals.

However on quick straight a to b comparison the Hi - line seems still the winner for musical involment an PRAT.  On the other hand,  S.Lumina brings a little more polish to rough edges and vocals sibilants rending some outreauges recordings more palatable. I'm not sure but perhaps there is also little more mid/bass control.

Overall S. Lumina seems more linear, and more sophisticated, Hi-Line for the moment is more emotionally involving.

Now i connected the CD5X on the 552, i'll leave S. Lumina with it to run in

Regards

Roberto

SL does need time to open up. I think you'll find Roberto, that if you live with the SL i/c for a few weeks and then revert back to the Hi-Line it will sound coarse and ill-defined.

Like Ravenswood I got the sophistication of the SL straight away, and icing on the cake followed as it opened up and gained more snap and zing.

But of course all systems (and rooms) are different, and if one ultimately prefers the tonal balance of the Hi-Line (or any other cable), so be it.

John.

Guys,

there's life outside there. Shall we leave it all to somebody else to enjoy it, while we struggle about pieces of wire?

Before any change, you should have a try with the SL speaker cable, they will put back the balance with the prat. SL ghave been developped to work together. It is like PL, once you have it all, it is a game changer. On my side, i found voicing simply amazing and more involving than the HL. SL is much more "opened" and yes, can give the feeling to be less organic. Also, i am part of those who think that if you find bass better defined with Focal than Ovator, it is probably because you didn't achive the right installation with them. Thay are somehow difficult. But them bass can be amazingly authoritative.

On my system i kept the SL and found the impact more effective than with the speaker cable. Once together, it is just a win win combination.

Cheers

Roberto, have you checked the direction on the cable? The lighter collared end goes at the CD555 end, same as the Hiline. The difference is very subtle, easy to miss if you're not looking for it.

Reminds me of lego brick grays. :-)

J Saville posted:

Roberto, have you checked the direction on the cable? The lighter collared end goes at the CD555 end, same as the Hiline. The difference is very subtle, easy to miss if you're not looking for it.

 

Hello,

Of course i did, the light grey is on the 555 side

I have it now running in on CD5X-552 for the last 20 hours. I'll try this evening again

Regards

Roberto

I find myself, not for the first time, in agreement with posts by BADLANDS providing something of a reality check. Not that I consider myself apart from the unreality of what we spend on HiFi 'just' to listen to music. I'd be embarrassed to be completely open with friends and family over how much I'd spent on (all DR) 252/300, CDS3/555, Fraim etc, even though most was below the full retail price. I mentioned to two friends the £1700 deal on the used CDS3 head unit, and could tell from the (polite) reaction that they both (one of them modestly into HiFi, the other into music big time but not into HiFi) thought I was barking. And, I'm increasingly, when I look back, starting to think I that maybe I was (barking), spending such large amounts of money for really quite modest gains. It has stopped me from considering cable upgrades and a secondhand 552. I didn't think the differences I heard at Bristol 2016, between 272 and 552 were worth the extra outlay; I'm starting to wonder whether the sonic differences between pre-amps are mainly down to tweaking the sound to justify different price points rather than from the use of superior components (is it, I ask myself, the power amp wattage that makes the real difference). I've never heard significant differences in cables that weren't either quickly assimilated or something that I could reliably identify in volume level matched blind listening tests; my Fraim looks great, but my Target stand did the business and by the time I'd switched everything back on, I couldn't reliably say there was an improvement in sound. I know some may think that the latter could be down to mastering the mystique of the Fraim build, but in my time I've stripped and rebuilt bike and car engines, and repaired/fettled decent cycles, so I didn't find any issues building a little 'ole Fraim!

But, all the above said, it's up to everyone, individually, to decide how they wish to enjoy their wealth, and if that's, for them, spending money on super lumina, or 552/500, or Statement, then good luck to them - enjoy it. VFM will also arguably have a different meaning according to relative wealth. I'm just saying that for me, I'm at the point where while I do have 'spare' money which could be used to fund HiFi upgrades, my experience to date suggests that I would find further improvements so marginal as to cause disappointment and doubt. I certainly couldn't bring myself to spend thousands of pounds on cables. Boring I know! To those whose mileage varies, very best wishes to you - enjoy your purchases and our (mine included) hobby.           

nicetone posted:

I find myself, not for the first time, in agreement with posts by BADLANDS providing something of a reality check. Not that I consider myself apart from the unreality of what we spend on HiFi 'just' to listen to music. I'd be embarrassed to be completely open with friends and family over how much I'd spent on (all DR) 252/300, CDS3/555, Fraim etc, even though most was below the full retail price. I mentioned to two friends the £1700 deal on the used CDS3 head unit, and could tell from the (polite) reaction that they both (one of them modestly into HiFi, the other into music big time but not into HiFi) thought I was barking. And, I'm increasingly, when I look back, starting to think I that maybe I was (barking), spending such large amounts of money for really quite modest gains. It has stopped me from considering cable upgrades and a secondhand 552. I didn't think the differences I heard at Bristol 2016, between 272 and 552 were worth the extra outlay; I'm starting to wonder whether the sonic differences between pre-amps are mainly down to tweaking the sound to justify different price points rather than from the use of superior components (is it, I ask myself, the power amp wattage that makes the real difference). I've never heard significant differences in cables that weren't either quickly assimilated or something that I could reliably identify in volume level matched blind listening tests; my Fraim looks great, but my Target stand did the business and by the time I'd switched everything back on, I couldn't reliably say there was an improvement in sound. I know some may think that the latter could be down to mastering the mystique of the Fraim build, but in my time I've stripped and rebuilt bike and car engines, and repaired/fettled decent cycles, so I didn't find any issues building a little 'ole Fraim!

But, all the above said, it's up to everyone, individually, to decide how they wish to enjoy their wealth, and if that's, for them, spending money on super lumina, or 552/500, or Statement, then good luck to them - enjoy it. VFM will also arguably have a different meaning according to relative wealth. I'm just saying that for me, I'm at the point where while I do have 'spare' money which could be used to fund HiFi upgrades, my experience to date suggests that I would find further improvements so marginal as to cause disappointment and doubt. I certainly couldn't bring myself to spend thousands of pounds on cables. Boring I know! To those whose mileage varies, very best wishes to you - enjoy your purchases and our (mine included) hobby.           

After reading that I can put to bed the urge to upgrade my standard cabling for a while.

Thank you.

Drewy posted:

nicetone posted:

I find myself, not for the first time, in agreement with posts by BADLANDS providing something of a reality check. Not that I consider myself apart from the unreality of what we spend on HiFi 'just' to listen to music. I'd be embarrassed to be completely open with friends and family over how much I'd spent on (all DR) 252/300, CDS3/555, Fraim etc, even though most was below the full retail price. I mentioned to two friends the £1700 deal on the used CDS3 head unit, and could tell from the (polite) reaction that they both (one of them modestly into HiFi, the other into music big time but not into HiFi) thought I was barking. And, I'm increasingly, when I look back, starting to think I that maybe I was (barking), spending such large amounts of money for really quite modest gains. It has stopped me from considering cable upgrades and a secondhand 552. I didn't think the differences I heard at Bristol 2016, between 272 and 552 were worth the extra outlay; I'm starting to wonder whether the sonic differences between pre-amps are mainly down to tweaking the sound to justify different price points rather than from the use of superior components (is it, I ask myself, the power amp wattage that makes the real difference). I've never heard significant differences in cables that weren't either quickly assimilated or something that I could reliably identify in volume level matched blind listening tests; my Fraim looks great, but my Target stand did the business and by the time I'd switched everything back on, I couldn't reliably say there was an improvement in sound. I know some may think that the latter could be down to mastering the mystique of the Fraim build, but in my time I've stripped and rebuilt bike and car engines, and repaired/fettled decent cycles, so I didn't find any issues building a little 'ole Fraim!

But, all the above said, it's up to everyone, individually, to decide how they wish to enjoy their wealth, and if that's, for them, spending money on super lumina, or 552/500, or Statement, then good luck to them - enjoy it. VFM will also arguably have a different meaning according to relative wealth. I'm just saying that for me, I'm at the point where while I do have 'spare' money which could be used to fund HiFi upgrades, my experience to date suggests that I would find further improvements so marginal as to cause disappointment and doubt. I certainly couldn't bring myself to spend thousands of pounds on cables. Boring I know! To those whose mileage varies, very best wishes to you - enjoy your purchases and our (mine included) hobby.           

After reading that I can put to bed the urge to upgrade my standard cabling for a while.

Thank you.

Hats off to you for using standard cables with your NAC 552 and NAP 300 DR. I think I saw a post from you several days ago which mentioned you didn't notice an (appreciable) difference with Powerlines after you tried 3. My experience mirrored yours except that I compared other cords, and for that reason I didn't bother to try Powerlines in my system. Having said that, you might want to treat yourself to some wire indulgences in the form of speaker cables and interconnects when you feel like mucking around. In my experience they do more than power cords. The differences are still relatively subtle, though appreciable.