NAC 282 - First Impressions

Sounds familiar to me. My last holiday in early May inclusive of a trip to Market Hoborough-Swinford-Brook Park and came home with 282/napsc. 

Had a marvelous homemade victoria cake in Swinford plus an R8 (a short roller coaster ride) And that is exotic indeed!!!

Jez R Oakley posted:

stuart posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

Can't see any equipment mentioned in your profile? What are the speakers that may be outclassed?

Yeah this would help along with your source and power amp, cables and room etc. :-) 

 

OK, it's a pair of PMC DB1+ being fed by the following:

• CDX2 + XPS2
• HiLine
• 282 + HiCap + NAPSC
• 200
• NAC A5

 

The DB1+ are certainly sounding way better than before but just not all that 3 dimensional. Loads of PRaT and dynamic range in evidence though, a really solid articulate presentation.

Based on price, the speakers are probably now the poor relation in my system despite sounding really rather good.

Meanwhile the 282 is now letting through stuff I simply never thought existed on the recordings so the speakers are far from complete duds for sure.

By George, you've nailed it!

Speakers next year, and the following year Naim's classic 250 DR!

We all must not forget, in the Beginning it was the Linn/Naim Merger.

"Vereker: We actually have several dealers now who don’t stock Linn; that never happened before. But this is also because there have been one or two other turntables which have appeared. The real problem (in our more naive view in the past, when we were collaborating) was that it was a Linn front end, a Naim middle, and a Linn back end. Now the minute you take away the Linn back end, ......"

Meanwhile, you have an whole year to explore, the BACK END.

It's all a matter of taste, YOUR taste!

PMC, Naim, Kudos, or Focal, a whole line of Speakers ranging from 3K to 20K.

The Middle can only improve the back end, a back end voiced to your front end!

And you are the chief Engineer, armed with your EARS!

Good Luck!

JMHO.

Allante93!

PS. Now it's the Focal/Naim Merger.

Are Focal Speakers voiced for Naim?

Jez R Oakley posted:

Dre posted:

Also consider upgrading the hicap to DR, will make the 282 sound more mature. Makes 282 less shouty, with wider sound, more detail and still easier listening. 

Check out the latest dynaudio special 40 to pair with your nap200!

 

Has anyone heard and reviewed the Special 40? They look tremendous but they should do for the thick end of £3000! :-)

My dealer has a set on order. He has promised to call me once he has run them in. I am a big Dynaudio fan and these could be good. 

Jez R Oakley posted:

Dre posted:

Also consider upgrading the hicap to DR, will make the 282 sound more mature. Makes 282 less shouty, with wider sound, more detail and still easier listening. 

Check out the latest dynaudio special 40 to pair with your nap200!

 

Has anyone heard and reviewed the Special 40? They look tremendous but they should do for the thick end of £3000! :-)

they look nice but the load is not easy: 86 db.  I don't think it is the best choice for your nap 200. They will work certainly quite fine, but if you want a real upgrade in your system, without changing your nap 200,  it is better looking at speakers with 90/93 load: they will disappear more easily and the better depth, width on soundstage you seem to look at, will be more easier to happen.

Keler Pierre posted:

Jez R Oakley posted:

Dre posted:

Also consider upgrading the hicap to DR, will make the 282 sound more mature. Makes 282 less shouty, with wider sound, more detail and still easier listening. 

Check out the latest dynaudio special 40 to pair with your nap200!

 

Has anyone heard and reviewed the Special 40? They look tremendous but they should do for the thick end of £3000! :-)

they look nice but the load is not easy: 86 db.  I don't think it is the best choice for your nap 200. They will work certainly quite fine, but if you want a real upgrade in your system, without changing your nap 200,  it is better looking at speakers with 90/93 load: they will disappear more easily and the better depth, width on soundstage you seem to look at, will be more easier to happen.

My PMCs are 87db and the 200 seems to cope OK. Not sure what the real world difference between 86 and 87 would be though. Agreed, 88 or higher probably seems sensible.

86dB / 2.83V has absolutely nothing to do with how difficult a load the speakers are, that measure is simply the sensitivity.

To work out how difficult a load any speakers are you need the impedance and phase plots.

I am inclined to support the view expressed by  Huge here.

I own Proac and PMC stand mounts and another pair of tiny Ruark stand mounts. All are around 85 dBA/W sensitivity, which is quite low.

However, all are 8 Ohm+ impedance with benign phase plots so the little NAP140 drives them a treat. My old Linn Saras, on the other hand, were such a nasty, low impedance load that even my CB NAP250 struggled to drive them well. It took NAP135s to really grab them by the scruff of the neck.

Huge posted:

86dB / 2.83V has absolutely nothing to do with how difficult a load the speakers are, that measure is simply the sensitivity.

To work out how difficult a load any speakers are you need the impedance and phase plots.

so can you tell if the special 40 dynaudio speakers are easy to drive?  oakley would like a speaker to disappear with his nap 200. I have already heard sometimes dynaudio speakers and have not found them so easy to drive. For more technical details you are right, but generally speaking, a 86db in 8 ohm speaker is not an so easy load. 

Jez R Oakley posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Jez R Oakley posted:

Dre posted:

Also consider upgrading the hicap to DR, will make the 282 sound more mature. Makes 282 less shouty, with wider sound, more detail and still easier listening. 

Check out the latest dynaudio special 40 to pair with your nap200!

 

Has anyone heard and reviewed the Special 40? They look tremendous but they should do for the thick end of £3000! :-)

they look nice but the load is not easy: 86 db.  I don't think it is the best choice for your nap 200. They will work certainly quite fine, but if you want a real upgrade in your system, without changing your nap 200,  it is better looking at speakers with 90/93 load: they will disappear more easily and the better depth, width on soundstage you seem to look at, will be more easier to happen.

My PMCs are 87db and the 200 seems to cope OK. Not sure what the real world difference between 86 and 87 would be though. Agreed, 88 or higher probably seems sensible.

the problem is not be be ok, you can even drive your speakers with 10w. Try by yourself, at dealers place, different speakers with your nap 200, in your price range and which can accommodate 15 feet room.  Speakers and amp is the most critical chain in a system, and buying just on members advices is very risky....it can just give you directions...

Keler Pierre posted:

Huge posted:

86dB / 2.83V has absolutely nothing to do with how difficult a load the speakers are, that measure is simply the sensitivity.

To work out how difficult a load any speakers are you need the impedance and phase plots.

so can you tell if the special 40 dynaudio speakers are easy to drive?  oakley would like a speaker to disappear with his nap 200. I have already heard sometimes dynaudio speakers and have not found them so easy to drive. For more technical details you are right, but generally speaking, a 86db in 8 ohm speaker is not an so easy load. 

Dynaudio don't publish any information to indicate how easy or difficult load their speakers are, so it's completely impossible to know for any given model without there being independent tests to determine this.

As for 86dB sensitivity from a 8Ω speaker being a difficult load; well if it's a true 8Ω load then it'll be a considerably easier load than a 89dB sensitivity 4Ω speaker.  If the 4Ω speaker is a reactive load it could easily be vastly more difficult load than the 8Ω speaker.  The impedance has far more effect than the sensitivity, and the combination of the phase relationships and impedance curve has vastly more effect - the sensitivity is a minor effect by comparison.

If you want information...
http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/HFN/SCAMP/scamp.html
https://www.stereophile.com/re.../707heavy/index.html

Dynaudio are quite challenging loads, once you move above the entry level.  I had the Excite X12 and a Canadian site published test results.  IIRC the X12, nominally 4 ohm, dipped to 2.6 ohm at points.  My current Focus 160s are nominally 4 ohm too.

the good news is that my previous NAP150x did a good job with them, and the NAP200 is really good.  Not saying more power will not add more, but you will not feel cheated with the 200.  

When I started with HiFi, there was that old adage that Naim watts were somehow more powerful than normal watts.  Clearly that is just a glib line, but their design seems to cope better with unusual loads than some other amplifier topography.

Keler Pierre posted:

Huge posted:

86dB / 2.83V has absolutely nothing to do with how difficult a load the speakers are, that measure is simply the sensitivity.

To work out how difficult a load any speakers are you need the impedance and phase plots.

so can you tell if the special 40 dynaudio speakers are easy to drive?  oakley would like a speaker to disappear with his nap 200. I have already heard sometimes dynaudio speakers and have not found them so easy to drive. For more technical details you are right, but generally speaking, a 86db in 8 ohm speaker is not an so easy load. 

This is confusing easy as in efficient speakers not requiring a high power amp to play loud enough, and an easy load for the amplifier which is to do with the evenness of impedance and phase effects challenging the amp to keep control and play evenly across the spectrum.

you can have efficient speakers say 90+dB/W that are a difficult load, and inefficient ones at low 80s dB/W that are an easy load, and vice versa. So the sensitivity is nothing to do with what is normally referred to as easy load or not - however it is true to say that a high sensitivity (efficient) speaker will need less power for the same listening level so is less demanding of power capability.

Huge posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Huge posted:

86dB / 2.83V has absolutely nothing to do with how difficult a load the speakers are, that measure is simply the sensitivity.

To work out how difficult a load any speakers are you need the impedance and phase plots.

so can you tell if the special 40 dynaudio speakers are easy to drive?  oakley would like a speaker to disappear with his nap 200. I have already heard sometimes dynaudio speakers and have not found them so easy to drive. For more technical details you are right, but generally speaking, a 86db in 8 ohm speaker is not an so easy load. 

Dynaudio don't publish any information to indicate how easy or difficult load their speakers are, so it's completely impossible to know for any given model without there being independent tests to determine this.

As for 86dB sensitivity from a 8Ω speaker being a difficult load; well if it's a true 8Ω load then it'll be a considerably easier load than a 89dB sensitivity 4Ω speaker.  If the 4Ω speaker is a reactive load it could easily be vastly more difficult load than the 8Ω speaker.  The impedance has far more effect than the sensitivity, and the combination of the phase relationships and impedance curve has vastly more effect - the sensitivity is a minor effect by comparison.

If you want information...
http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/HFN/SCAMP/scamp.html
https://www.stereophile.com/re.../707heavy/index.html

the vast majority of speakers are 8 ohm...

Innocent Bystander posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Huge posted:

86dB / 2.83V has absolutely nothing to do with how difficult a load the speakers are, that measure is simply the sensitivity.

To work out how difficult a load any speakers are you need the impedance and phase plots.

so can you tell if the special 40 dynaudio speakers are easy to drive?  oakley would like a speaker to disappear with his nap 200. I have already heard sometimes dynaudio speakers and have not found them so easy to drive. For more technical details you are right, but generally speaking, a 86db in 8 ohm speaker is not an so easy load. 

This is confusing easy as in efficient speakers not requiring a high power amp to play loud enough, and an easy load for the amplifier which is to do with the evenness of impedance and phase effects challenging the amp to keep control and play evenly across the spectrum.

you can have efficient speakers say 90+dB/W that are a difficult load, and inefficient ones at low 80s dB/W that are an easy load, and vice versa. So the sensitivity is nothing to do with what is normally referred to as easy load or not - however it is true to say that a high sensitivity (efficient) speaker will need less power for the same listening level so is less demanding of power capability.

so i could have said:  the dynaudio special 40 are not so efficient speakers?

i heard sometimes ago bw 805 s with nap 200 then nap 250. I was interested in that time in standmounth speakers. the 805 s are around 2500 GBP:  88 db in 8 ohm.  I found that with nap 250 dr they opened and disappeared quite entirely, but with nap 200 the soundstage was a bit recessed and the sound was a bit harder and less fluent.   I am quite certain that dynaudio special 40 are a bit more challenging than bw 805 s..... but it must of course be verified.

Keler Pierre posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

Huge posted:

86dB / 2.83V has absolutely nothing to do with how difficult a load the speakers are, that measure is simply the sensitivity.

To work out how difficult a load any speakers are you need the impedance and phase plots.

so can you tell if the special 40 dynaudio speakers are easy to drive?  oakley would like a speaker to disappear with his nap 200. I have already heard sometimes dynaudio speakers and have not found them so easy to drive. For more technical details you are right, but generally speaking, a 86db in 8 ohm speaker is not an so easy load. 

This is confusing easy as in efficient speakers not requiring a high power amp to play loud enough, and an easy load for the amplifier which is to do with the evenness of impedance and phase effects challenging the amp to keep control and play evenly across the spectrum.

you can have efficient speakers say 90+dB/W that are a difficult load, and inefficient ones at low 80s dB/W that are an easy load, and vice versa. So the sensitivity is nothing to do with what is normally referred to as easy load or not - however it is true to say that a high sensitivity (efficient) speaker will need less power for the same listening level so is less demanding of power capability.

so i could have said:  the dynaudio special 40 are not so efficient speakers?

Yes.

And of course, in terms of amplifier power requirement low sensitivity may not matter to someone who only listens quietly or whose listening position is very close to the speakers - but could be an issue if the converse is true

Huge posted:

86dB / 2.83V has absolutely nothing to do with how difficult a load the speakers are, that measure is simply the sensitivity.

To work out how difficult a load any speakers are you need the impedance and phase plots.

{Innocent Bystander posted:}

""This is confusing easy, as in efficient speakers not requiring a high power amp to play loud enough, and an easy load for the amplifier which is to do with the evenness of impedance and phase effects challenging the amp to keep control and play evenly across the spectrum.

you can have efficient speakers say 90+dB/W that are a difficult load, and inefficient ones at low 80s dB/W that are an easy load, and vice versa. So the sensitivity is nothing to do with what is normally referred to as easy load or not - however it is true to say that a high sensitivity (efficient) speaker will need less power for the same listening level so is less demanding of power capability.""

No hands on Experience, but when I purchased my Vienna Acoustic Baby Grands I did some research from Forums, and they directed towards Arcam's P1 Mono Blocks.

Just Like the Naim Forum directed me towards the 282 & HCDR, funny thing, all those that directed me, have moved on to the 252, or 552.

But point being, is there any hands on experience with Naim & Dynaudio???

Naim's Speakers, Briks, PMC, Neat, Kudos

An Interview from our Father, Julian:

""Kessler: In the past—at least in the UK—all Naim dealers were Linn dealers, though not vice versa. How has the end of the collaboration affected you in this area?

Vereker: We actually have several dealers now who don’t stock Linn; that never happened before. But this is also because there have been one or two other turntables which have appeared. The real problem (in our more naive view in the past, when we were collaborating) was that it was a Linn front end, a Naim middle, and a Linn back end. Now the minute you take away the Linn back end,............

The electronics actually don’t enter into it. Our electronics, in any system you put them in, always improved them in the ways which were important to me in musical terms. Not necessarily in your terms of the presentation of the sound and the space and these sorts of things, but in musical terms—the tune and the intentions of the composer, the skill of the people who are performing. It doesn’t matter what the system is......""

{I guess the electronics don't matter, assuming the Middle can Drive the Back End!}

Any Hands on Experience, with Dynaudio?

Allante93!

It is hard to say if the special 40's will be a difficult load,they are a completely new driver design,so they might be easier than previous models,but also might not.I own excite 12's now,previously owned focus 160's and previously owned C1 MK11's.Of all the models I had,the C1's were the hardest to drive...SN 2 I had struggled with them,but a 250dr was ok,but I would recommend a 300dr for the C1's to reach their true potential.I am also considering getting a pair of special 40's,but I would be driving them with a non NAIM amp,which outputs 265 watts/channel.

Your NAP 200 should go very fine with newer monitors, for sure with a pre like 282 controlling it. 

Of course bigger power amps gives you bit more, but that only adds future upgrade options value to these speakers.

You can be prettty sure that these special forty are far more open, detailed and extended, so you do not need to crank up that volume to have good music experience.

I had a NAP 200 into Dynaudio C1 Platinum and wasn't entirely happy; they sounded a little less than perfectly crisp, clear, and quick.  Switched to 250DR and it's all good.  I note that the Special 40 is a 6 ohm speaker, however, and listed as more efficient as well.  As mentioned above the C1 is a notoriously tough load, just guessing but the Special 40, based on specs, should be quite a lot easier to drive to full satisfaction with a 200.

Tallan posted:

... just guessing but the Special 40, based on specs, should be quite a lot easier to drive to full satisfaction with a 200.

There's just not enough information in the specs to tell, one way or the other.

6 versus 4 ohm, 86db versus 85, sounds easier to me.  But as I said, just guessing.

The C1's sounded fabulous at lower volumes with the SN2,but fell apart once you went over 80 db's or so.i was not aware of the 6 ohm rating on the 40's,as HUGE says,not a lot of info on them yet,and people that ordered them will be waiting until mid July at least to receive them.

Tallan posted:

6 versus 4 ohm, 86db versus 85, sounds easier to me.  But as I said, just guessing.

There's just not enough information there ... even for guesswork.  Without the impedance and phase curves all bets are off - could be anything.

Huge posted:

Tallan posted:

6 versus 4 ohm, 86db versus 85, sounds easier to me.  But as I said, just guessing.

There's just not enough information there ... even for guesswork.  Without the impedance and phase curves all bets are off - could be anything.

exactly, there is a lot of speculations....The only reasonable thing to do is to test them with a nap 200.